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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Harry Boy, May 9, 2010.

  1. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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  2. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 Rookie

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    This is amazing......

    I remember when that Boston cop Shermin Griffin got shot & killed by Albert Lewin.

    First Lewin beat the muder rap because the cops lied to get the search
    warrant.

    Then Lewin was awarded 250,000 for taking a severe beating at the hands
    of the cops.

    Lewin got deported, with the $250,000
  3. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Hadn't heard about that. Nice policework.
  4. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    Absolutely unbelievable. Only in America. Come here ILLEGALLY, get caught, but then get handed $145,000 of our money, cuz the country you snuck into ILLEGALLY, had he audacity to hold you for a month. Un****ing real. :mad: Guess what. If you don't want to be locked up for a month in a foreign country, DON'T SNEAK IN THERE! :mad:
  5. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    The inmates are running the asylum, my friend.

    And I would bet my life that he'll be back in America in no time. Everything's free in Amer-eee-ca!! For a small fee in Amer-eee-ca!!
    Last edited: May 10, 2010
  6. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    While I agree that 145,000 is a bit extreme, there's no doubt that his incarceration was excessive and he probably deserved some level of compensation.

    Don't like it? Change the law, or allocate more funds for ICE.
  7. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 Rookie

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    So you support Arizona inforcing the law on illegal immigration?

    Good for you....
  8. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Um, actually yeah there is plenty of "doubt" so please don't fool yourself into thinking your opinion speaks for everyone. There was nothing obscenely unreasonable about an illegal busted on multiple drug charges (among other arrests) being detained for all of 5 weeks prior to deportation.
  9. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Unless, of course, you consider violating a federal law to be obscenely unreasonable. Which you usually do, WP, except maybe in this case because it suits your purpose here to see the law broken.

    Plus, it sounds really good when you say he had "multiple drug charges among other arrests" doesn't it? Except you don't know that, do you? What we know is that he was arrested with "crack cocaine residue in his pocket" and that he had 3 prior arrests for things unknown.

    You don't like the laws? Work to get them changed. Until then, it's probably not ok to break them just because you don't like them. That's a pretty sure path to anarchy.
    Last edited: May 10, 2010
  10. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Just another example of the government being stupid and arrogant to the point where they either though they were doing something legal or didn;t care. I don't give a rat's azz what happens to this loser, but the cops, the courts and the government have to do the right thing. They screwed this up. This scumbag had his Constitutional rights violated. When I travel, I obey their laws. If I ever screw up there, I would expect to be treated according to their laws ( BTW, I don't go to ****holes like Turkmenistan or Bulgaria- Santa knows what could happen there!). We have laws here. They apply to everyone whether they are US citizens or not... whether you like it or not.
  11. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Was he charged with anything? Given some form of hearing? Access to an attorney? If so, holding him seems reasonable to me, as he had due process. If not, they just held a guy for a month, which isn't justifiable.
  12. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    This is outrageous. Screw this loser, and every other illegal as well. When you sneak into a country ILLEGALLY, that means you open yourself to whatever it is that foreign government decides. Screw em. The people have had enough of this BS.
  13. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    I know he's an illegal immigrant so you immediately default to "I must defend him!" status, but he pleaded guilty to a drug charge. I know you believe in "innocent until proven guilty"... well out here in the real world, pleading guilty counts as being proven guilty.
    Well that's pretty gosh darn hypocrticial coming from you given your whining over the AZ laws, now isn't it?
  14. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Why should an illegal immgrant (i.e. non citizen) have access to an attorney and due process? He should certainly have human rights, meaning he should be given 3 hots and a cot while being held, but I just don't see Constitutional rights as something that should be extened to illegals. I guess you think he should have the right to vote too?

    Wait, what am I saying? Of course, you liberals want illegals to have the right to vote... and get drivers' licenses, state-sponsored tuition breaks for universities, etc.
    Last edited: May 10, 2010
  15. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    WP, can you even read, fer cryin out loud???? It doesn't matter what you think or what I think or what anyone thinks, for that matter. What matters is the law - and the law as it stands is that no one, illegal alien or not, can be held for longer than 48 hours - and certainly not for longer than 5 weeks. It wasn't "liberals" who broke the law here - it wasn't "liberals" who awarded him the money - it was a US court. Constitutional laws apply to everyone - illegal aliens included - whether you like it or not. Which is why, if you don't like something which happens, you need to work to change the laws, not call other people names for pointing out that the laws are being upheld.

    I believe you are one of the ones here who keeps yelling about the high cost of taxes. If they do as you suggest here, and remove an illegal alien's right to an attorney and his due process to a speedy trial, think of how much that's going to cost you in the long run. Is that what you want?

    While we're at it, I'm really sick and tired of you insisting that you know what "all liberals" want. You don't know a damn thing, yanno? You're not even sure what YOU want (as evidenced by, "don't want my taxes raised" and "want people held without due process indefinitely,") so how in the hell can you speak for anyone else?

    I've said, and quite a few other liberals have said, numerous times, that we DON'T want the "right to vote" for illegal aliens or any of the other things mentioned, either. We don't necessarily want them here any more than you do - we're just not about to have them killed because of it - nor do we want to see honest citizens or legal aliens harrassed because they "look like" they might be illegal.

    Get over yourself, will ya? Do us all a favor and quit worrying about what "we "want and figure out what it is "you" want.
  16. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    I believe the Constitution differentiates in different places between "citizens" and "persons." That's where I'd start wrt what rights people should have.

    Without due process, how do you know if he should be deported? And how long is too long to be held without due process, since you think 30 days is fine?

    Btw, how exactly do you define "liberal"? Anybody who disagrees with you on an issue?

    Unlike you, I actually want small government and believe in individual rights. You seem confused by the difference between libertarian and liberal. (Things do get perplexing when it's not just a matter of "lower taxes!", I know...)
  17. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Tell it to the judge who released him on his own recognizance.

    And how does a judge releasing him on his own recognizance make me hypocritical?

    There's absolutely nothing in this case which has anything to do with the new law in Arizona. Apples and oranges other than they both concerned an illegal alien - and I've already stated numerous times that I'm not worried about what the law in AZ does to the illegals, my concern, and the concern of every other person who's against the AZ law is about what it may do to legal citizens and nothing more.

    I'm glad you think you live in the "real world," WP, however it might do you good to know that it was the "real world" that awarded this man the money and it's the "real world" that's filing countless law suits to stop the AZ law from going in to effect as worded.

    That's the "real world." Anything else is a figment of your imagination.
  18. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    If you cross the North Korean border illegally you get 12 years hard labor.

    If you cross the Iranian border illegally you are detained indefinitely.

    If you cross the Afghan border illegally, you get shot.

    If you cross the Saudi border illegally you will be jailed.

    If you cross the Chinese border illegally you may never be heard from again.

    If you cross the Venezuelan border illegally you will be branded a spy and your fate will be sealed.

    If you cross the Cuban border illegally you will be thrown into political prison to rot.

    If you cross the U.S. Border illegally you get...
    1. A job.
    2. A drivers license.
    3. Social security card.
    4. Welfare.
    5. Food stamps.
    6. Credit cards.
    7. Subsidized rent or a loan to buy a house.
    8. Free education.
    9. A lobbyist in washington.
    10. Billions of dollars worth of public documents printed in your language.
    11. The right to carry your country’s flag while you protest that you don’t get enough respect.
    12. And, in many instances, you can vote.
  19. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Great post Kontra! And very true!

    I wonder if we should build a canal between the US and Me-Hico....
    Last edited: May 10, 2010
  20. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    In the long run, it will cost a helluva lot less than what we're all paying right now under the current system.

    You liberals never cease to amaze me. You always mention the high cost of detaining illegals but I guarantee you detaining and deporting will cost nowhere near as much as our current policy which includes things like housing subsidies, tuition subsidies, etc, etc.
    Sorry, but you're not fooling anyone. You say you "don't want them here" but then you're first in line to complain about AZ's new law which is trying to do something about it, and you're first in line to cheer an egregious verdict like this one which gives some degenerate illegal a big payday before deporting him.
    Oh, I know what I want. I want America to be strong and prosperous. And you want to do everything you can to prevent that by welcoming all the undocumented dregs of the world into our country with open arms in unlimited numbers.
  21. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Illegal aliens can vote? Where?

    Aside from the veracity of the claims re the US, who cares? Are the nations you listed suddenly countries we are striving to be more similar to?
  22. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Is he in this country legally? No? Then he should be deported.

    Gee that was simple!
    I don't acknowledge he has a right to due process since he is in this country illegally. Like I said before, he deserves to be treated humanely (3 hots and a cot) but beyond that, he'll wait until we're goddamn good and ready to deal with him. And if he doesn't like it? Tough ****. He never should have been here in the first place, so if he doesn't like cooling it for 30 days that's his problem.

    Now, of course, I want to get these people deported as soon as possible but that is just from a standpoint of practicality, not a standpoint of whining about how his civil rights have been violated because he had to spend 30 days on Riker's Island, probably living in nicer conditions than the hellhole he originally came from.
    It's like that famous line about porn: Tough to define, but I know it when I see it.
    Last edited: May 10, 2010
  23. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I've seen quite a few people either on here or in person think that America would be better off if they were similar to a few of those countries. That's certainly not out of the norm. This was pretty much the response I expected to get out of that from those opposed to the Arizona immigration law.
  24. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I'd rather just build a fence all the way across the border and electrify it. I expect it would look something like that one scene in Jurassic Park.
  25. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    I don't think you know much...

    How do you know he is an illegal immigrant in the first place? Was there a hearing? If so, that goes back to my post you initially responded to -- which I guess you were disagreeing with just to be argumentative.

    As for liberals, it appears the term doesn't really have any meaning for you, except that it's the opposite of Republican, perhaps. Not surprising for a partsan shill -- no underlying principles whatsoever.



  26. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    who wants us to be more like those countries? Sone details here would be very interesting.

    And you post was unclear -- are those people who want us to be like those countries opposed to the AZ law, or am I?
  27. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Are you serious? There are plenty of people out there who would like us to switch to a more socialist government, such as the ones in Cuba and Venezuela.

    The former. I honestly have no idea about what you stand for. But I can pretty much guess.
  28. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    It doesn't matter what you "acknowledge," WR. What matters is what the law says.....and if you'd bothered to actually read the article you'd know that federal laws says local law enforcement can only detain suspected illegal immigrants for 48 hours after their criminal cases are resolved, to give Immigration and Customs Enforcement a chance to pick them up and move them to federal facilities.

    In other words, it's not HIS problem, it's the jail's problem - they were supposed to call ICE to pick him up within the 48 hours and they did not - they admitted they did not and they maintain it was an isolated incident.

    You still haven't answered my question - who pays the 3 hots and a cot for months on end while illegal aliens wait until we're goddam good and ready to deal with them? Any bright ideas on that one or haven't you thought it that far out yet?
  29. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Being "more socialist" isn't really the same as wanting to be more like Cuba, any more than wanting tougher law enforcement is wanting us to be more like Cuba.

    As for my political views, it sounds like you can't guess, actually.
  30. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    And what "hell hole" would that be, WP? Last I heard Barbados was a pretty dam nice place to live. They rank 33 out of 111 countries in wealth, they have national health care, their unemployment rate is either the same or lower than ours, their climate is prime and their weather is beautiful.

    And oh yeah, their schools are great and they speak English.

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