Guyton

[satz]

last year justin rogers had a ok preseason and on being cut started a few games from the cowboys.guyton had a better season and i am sure some one will pick him up if we let him go.

 

[letekro]

I was sure until the Giants game that Guyton had won a spot. It wasn't that he played badly, but it was tthat Hobson rose up and proved he is a keeper.

Hobson had a mammoth game.

Victor, is that you?

 

[JSn]

Victor, is that you?

LOL, I wondered the same thing.

 

[dryheat44]

What were the injury questions? Nothing I have read in profiles,etc says anything about his draft ststus being affected by injuries or injury concerns. Can you fill me in?

As luck would have it, I deleted all my draft notes this morning as I was cleaning up my work computer. I believe it was a foot injury, but I suppose it's possible I've got him confused with someone else.

If you remember, the 49ers had a verbal agreement with Guyton immediately following the draft, but he ended up reneging and signing with the Patriots.

Fun fact, Gary Guyton is a cousin of Myron Guyton.

 

[DaBruinz]

Teams just do not get through camp and cut a guy who knows their system and has made their team to take a chance on a guy who went undrafted, spent camp with another team, as a 3rd stringer, and didn't make that team.
Each year there are about 0 or 1 rookies that get cut and are picked up before they can be signed to the practice squad.
I understand the thinking that teams would love to get our cast-offs, but it just doesnt happen that way.
Its not really my opinion, its the facts that it simple almost NEVER happens. Justin Rogers last year was the exception, and that makes him something like the 3rd rookie in 4 years in the NFL to be cut at final cutdown and signed by someone else before opening day.

Andy - You do realize that, last year, it wasn't just Justin Rogers who got picked up. EVERY ONE of the Pats draft picks who were cut were signed by other teams. Primarily by the Jets or Colts. Rogers was the exception, going to the Cowboys.

 

[DaBruinz]

As luck would have it, I deleted all my draft notes this morning as I was cleaning up my work computer. I believe it was a foot injury, but I suppose it's possible I've got him confused with someone else.

If you remember, the 49ers had a verbal agreement with Guyton immediately following the draft, but he ended up reneging and signing with the Patriots.

Fun fact, Gary Guyton is a cousin of Myron Guyton.

I can't find anything on a foot injury for Guyton. What I read was that he was just over-shadowed by other ILB/OLB candidates like teammate Philip Wheeler and Nevada's Ezra Butler. Honestly, I think he was over-looked much like Adalius Thomas was over-looked.

 

[dryheat44]

I can't find anything on a foot injury for Guyton. What I read was that he was just over-shadowed by other ILB/OLB candidates like teammate Philip Wheeler and Nevada's Ezra Butler. Honestly, I think he was over-looked much like Adalius Thomas was over-looked.

You're right. I was probably thinking about Erin Henderson, another linebacker I was absolutely shocked that wasn't drafted.

 

[Displaced - Fan]

I can't find anything on a foot injury for Guyton. What I read was that he was just over-shadowed by other ILB/OLB candidates like teammate Philip Wheeler and Nevada's Ezra Butler. Honestly, I think he was over-looked much like Adalius Thomas was over-looked.

From what remember reading about Guyton:
He moved around a lot in the LB Pos. in college due to others being injured and never really got to establish himself in one spot. He also had a real weak 225 rep at the combine. These 2 factors seem to really hurt his stock.

 

[spacecrime]

Teams just do not get through camp and cut a guy who knows their system and has made their team to take a chance on a guy who went undrafted, spent camp with another team, as a 3rd stringer, and didn't make that team.
Each year there are about 0 or 1 rookies that get cut and are picked up before they can be signed to the practice squad.
I understand the thinking that teams would love to get our cast-offs, but it just doesnt happen that way.
Its not really my opinion, its the facts that it simple almost NEVER happens. Justin Rogers last year was the exception, and that makes him something like the 3rd rookie in 4 years in the NFL to be cut at final cutdown and signed by someone else before opening day.

It wasn't just Justin Rogers. I believe there were FOUR Patriot rookies who were cut that were picked up by other teams last year. Rogers was hardly the exception. More like the norm.

 

[bradmahn]

Teams just do not get through camp and cut a guy who knows their system and has made their team to take a chance on a guy who went undrafted, spent camp with another team, as a 3rd stringer, and didn't make that team.
Each year there are about 0 or 1 rookies that get cut and are picked up before they can be signed to the practice squad.
I understand the thinking that teams would love to get our cast-offs, but it just doesnt happen that way.
Its not really my opinion, its the facts that it simple almost NEVER happens. Justin Rogers last year was the exception, and that makes him something like the 3rd rookie in 4 years in the NFL to be cut at final cutdown and signed by someone else before opening day.

These kinds of trends mean absolutely nothing in the NFL. Nothing.

All it takes is for one team (the Dolphins or Jets or Cowboys or Chargers or Browns or...) for "years" of specious evidence to mean absolutely nothing. One team, one player, one year. Guyton has shown special teams ability and has earned playing time as one of the top backups at a position generally regarded as one of the most difficult to master, ILB in Belichick's 3-4. He also has great timed speed. You're crazy if you don't think some team would seriously consider cutting a marginal player that has been with their program through camp for someone that has shown well in a complicated system for the best organization in football.

Beyond that, I seriously question the validity of your blanket statements.

 

[DaBruinz]

From what remember reading about Guyton:
He moved around a lot in the LB Pos. in college due to others being injured and never really got to establish himself in one spot. He also had a real weak 225 rep at the combine. These 2 factors seem to really hurt his stock.

While Guyton's reps were mediocre for a LB (only 15 at the Combine, 16 at his pro-day), he put up great speed numbers for a LB, a great vertical (40") and and fantastic broad jump (10'6").

 

[Mark Morse]

I was sure until the Giants game that Guyton had won a spot. It wasn't that he played badly, but it was tthat Hobson rose up and proved he is a keeper.

Hobson had a mammoth game.

Guyton had more tackles! Guyton was the 3rd ILB in the rotation and has been all camp. Guyton runs a sick sub 4.5 40 time. Thats RB speed. Hobson is as good as he is ever going to be and potentially, with that size and speed, Guyton could be a monster.

Other Patriots that were picked up last year after the cuts: Clint Oldenburg and Mike Elgin ended up on Practice Squads; Kareem Brown was waived during teh season and picked up by another team.

Of all the players mentioned that could be cut and re-signed to the practice squad, I think Matt Slater has the best chance of sneaking through (ie; Bam Childress).

Cut down, per Scott Pioli, is at noon tomorrow. The Patriots usually don't announce who they cut until they have resigned guys to the PS on Sunday after 12:00.

 

[Ring 6]

Happened with Mills, too, don't forget. Other teams aren't as deep as we are all the way down to 53, and while I generally agree with the sentiment you express, 3 guys I'd be worried about not making it to PS are Guyton, Redd and Gutes.

Mills was not a rookie, he played for us his rookie year, then went on IR. Entirely different situaiton, not to mention he was a 4th round pick, meaning that other teams may have valued him as a 4,5,6,or 7 while no one valued Guyton as even a 7.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy - You do realize that, last year, it wasn't just Justin Rogers who got picked up. EVERY ONE of the Pats draft picks who were cut were signed by other teams. Primarily by the Jets or Colts. Rogers was the exception, going to the Cowboys.

That is simply not true. At least not in this discssion.
Yes, many of them EVENTUALLY ENDED UP ON OTHER TEAMS. That is not what we are talking about.
We are talking about cutting a guy at final cutdown and having someone cut one of their players to sign the guy we cut to an active roster before we sign up the practice squad.
It just doesnt happen. There is something like a 48 hour window, during which time teams are preparing for their opener, and are worried about getting their 53 man roster ready for the season, not about whether some undrafted rookie free agent could come in and learn their entire system in 3 days and be better than the guy who made their team.

Every NFL team chose not to draft Guyton all the way through the 7th round. I do not understand what he has done to change their opinions?????? He has played decently in preseason games, against mostly backups, and assuming this question is even pertinent, was CUT by the Patriots. I understand it is exciting to see that we brought in an UDFA who MIGHT be able to play in the league, but he hasn't done anything that would make other teams think more highly of him than when they didn't draft him. Certainly not enough for tem to think him WITH NO KNOWLEDGE OF THEIR SYSTEM AND NOT A PRACTICE WITH THEM UNDER HIS BELT would be better than whoever they have to cut to sign him.

This isn't even close as an argument. All of these reasons are why it almost never happens. Once again anyone who disputes this give me a list of all the players in the last year, 2,3,4 years that were rookies cut at final cutdown then signed by another team prior to opening day. I have looked it up, and know that it almost never happens. IF you are going to disagree with me, show me when it has happened.

 

[Ring 6]

It wasn't just Justin Rogers. I believe there were FOUR Patriot rookies who were cut that were picked up by other teams last year. Rogers was hardly the exception. More like the norm.

Not true.
There were other players that we cut, that EVENTUALLY went somewhere else.
Rogers is the only rookie of the BB era that was cut, and signed before we could add him to the practice squad. THE ONLY ONE, and across the entire NFL at most it happens once or twice a year, and as often as not zero such players are signed.

If you want to disagree with me, all you have to do is go to the transaction history from cutdown day to practice squad signings day. Show me ANY other Patriots that contradict what I say, and I will never mention this topic again.

 

[Ring 6]

These kinds of trends mean absolutely nothing in the NFL. Nothing.

All it takes is for one team (the Dolphins or Jets or Cowboys or Chargers or Browns or...) for "years" of specious evidence to mean absolutely nothing. One team, one player, one year. Guyton has shown special teams ability and has earned playing time as one of the top backups at a position generally regarded as one of the most difficult to master, ILB in Belichick's 3-4. He also has great timed speed. You're crazy if you don't think some team would seriously consider cutting a marginal player that has been with their program through camp for someone that has shown well in a complicated system for the best organization in football.

Beyond that, I seriously question the validity of your blanket statements.

OK, let me get this straight. The fact that what you are suggesting WILL happen hiostorically almost NEVER happens means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. If you really think that, we should ust stop the discussion, and I will spend my time on more rational ones.

If you question the validity of my statements feel free to prove me wrong.
Go to NFL transactions. All you have to do is look from final cutdown day up to the day practice squads are signed. I believe that is 2 days. Find me a list of all of the rookies that we signed by another team during that period, and you will have a year by year history of how rookies get cut and 'don't clear waivers'.
When you have facts, then you can question the validity of my point.
I have no doubt that you are surprised by the facts, but being surprised by the facts does not mean you can argue the facts are wrong.

 

[mdhprime]

I was sure until the Giants game that Guyton had won a spot. It wasn't that he played badly, but it was tthat Hobson rose up and proved he is a keeper.

Hobson had a mammoth game.

I was not that great. Guyton was around the ball a lot more than Hobson.

 

[loosebearing]

Last year there was a big brewha with the Vikings new coach (the balding guy) about a so called gentleman's agreement with PS eligible player cuts. That BB threated him for claiming a Patriot player. (forget who). Other teams are now "looking for Patriot cuts". A 54, 55, 56, 57 Patriot cut is better than most teams 43 player.

 

[bradmahn]

OK, let me get this straight. The fact that what you are suggesting WILL happen hiostorically almost NEVER happens means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. If you really think that, we should ust stop the discussion, and I will spend my time on more rational ones.

If you question the validity of my statements feel free to prove me wrong.
Go to NFL transactions. All you have to do is look from final cutdown day up to the day practice squads are signed. I believe that is 2 days. Find me a list of all of the rookies that we signed by another team during that period, and you will have a year by year history of how rookies get cut and 'don't clear waivers'.
When you have facts, then you can question the validity of my point.
I have no doubt that you are surprised by the facts, but being surprised by the facts does not mean you can argue the facts are wrong.

The burden of proof isn't on me for saying it could happen, it's on you for saying it won't.

That said, some rookies from last year to be claimed: David Jones, Clifton Dawson, Justin Rogers, Anthony Madison, and Quentin Moses, with one of those players being a Patriots LB who showed well on special teams and not nearly as much as Guyton has at LB.

It happens.

It just doesnt happen. There is something like a 48 hour window, during which time teams are preparing for their opener, and are worried about getting their 53 man roster ready for the season, not about whether some undrafted rookie free agent could come in and learn their entire system in 3 days and be better than the guy who made their team.

The other 31 teams in the NFL do have scouts or have actually seen these rookies play in person. The vast majority of other teams in the NFL don't have legitimate players at spots 46-53, either, and are constantly looking to upgrade the talent at those roster positions, even if it means signing a rookie with upside who has never played in their system. See above.

What has Guyton shown you to even warrant being cut from the Patriots, let alone being shunned by the rest of the NFL?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Not true.
There were other players that we cut, that EVENTUALLY went somewhere else.
Rogers is the only rookie of the BB era that was cut, and signed before we could add him to the practice squad. THE ONLY ONE, and across the entire NFL at most it happens once or twice a year, and as often as not zero such players are signed.

If you want to disagree with me, all you have to do is go to the transaction history from cutdown day to practice squad signings day. Show me ANY other Patriots that contradict what I say, and I will never mention this topic again.

One could make a very good case for Garrett Mills being in the same boat--while not literally a rookie, he never suited up for the Patriots during the regular season.

In any case, I could see things going either way--i.e., clearing waivers or not--for Ruud, Guyton, and Redd. I'm less convinced of that with Slater, even less with Wilhite, and absolutely convinced that the folks who think O'Connell could clear waivers are just plain nuts. (Hmmm . . . a 7th round in 2005, a UDFA last year, . . . and now all of a sudden they go spend a third? If you were a scout, wouldn't you think that, maybe, just maybe, there might be something special there?)