Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by pats1, Feb 25, 2010.
Wes Welker recovering well - BostonHerald.com
Saw this, great news no infection
The way I read that, his "doing very well" was a medical statement, his being an "unrealistic proposition" for the start of the season was merely Karen's opinion which I disagree with. It would take a perfect rehab with no setbacks but Braylon Edwards and Deion Branch's returns show a Week 1 return as realistic, though optimistic.
His GF is 2005 Miss Hooters. Not sure if its possible NOT to do well.
All kidding aside, good news nonetheless.
Unlikely to start the season....
This falls into the 'no duh' catagory of professional journalism
December 1st seems more of a realistic expectation for his return
Well some people , including some in here, thought Welker will be ready by week 1 and everything is all hunky dory... And now with David Patten , with him Brandon Tate , Edleman, Moss, and Aiken , we dont need help at WR... WR needs to be a focus...
Unless I missed it, Karen did not say "unlikely to start the season" but said it was unrealistic. Which I disagree with. He's about a month behind where Braylon Edwards was when he had his ACL team and Edwards was back for the first preseason game. In fact they had their surgeries exactly a month apart, Edwards on 1/3 of his year, Welker on 2/3 of his.
You can make the argument that Edwards is more of a straight line runner, OTOH you can also make the argument that ACL rehabs are more effective now, 4 years later than Edwards did his. But the fact remains that it's realistic, though optimistic, for Welker to be back Week 1.
That's 5. We could go with 6, Patten isn't a lock and Welker may be PUPed. But depending how they feel about Tate and Patten - and none of us really know how much Patten has left or how happy they are with Tate's knowledge of the game, etc, the WR group could be fairly full with at most one open spot.
Welker's only slightly more likely to start the season than I am. Either way we aren't even at powerball odds yet (powerball being more likely).
It's great to hear he's doing well and I still consider him a scratch for next year. Welker earns his $'s living on the side to side cut and will need those ligamewnts strong. A WR with a straight run style might be able to make a reasonable comeback mid-to-late season. Hopefully Edelman will make that leap and another year will have him more in line with Brady.
FWIW in Jan of 08, Deion Branch blew out his ACL. He was back in late Oct of 08. He was ok- not great. Would a 75% WW be a benefit to the offense? He sure would.
It can happen as long as post-op complications and set-backs w/ the rehab don't crop up.
I can't find the exact date of his surgery, he got hurt a few weeks later than Welker but may have caught up if he didn't have to wait for his MCL to heal, I can't find the exact date. Regardless, Branch's YPC were exactly in lien in the half season after he returned as they were before he got hurt. He didn't make an impact after his return IMO because he wasn't an impact WR. He bottomed out this year with the rest of the crappy Seahawk offense.
If we do the timeline its pretty close.
Date of Injury/Welker- 1/3/2010
Date of Surgery/Welker- 2/2/2010
Date of Injury/Branch-1/12/08
Date of Surgery/Branch-Assumed mid-Feb '08. Took out from this article:
Seahawks | Notebook | Seahawks' Deion Branch nearing end of long comeback trail | Seattle Times Newspaper
He had surgery a few weeks later and the original timeline for his recovery was nine months. Sunday, it will be seven months since the surgery, and it seemed that Branch was on track for an earlier comeback, perhaps as soon as this week.
MCLs can be 4-6 weeks. so it seems they are on pretty similar paths.
Heres it to hoping!
You cannot count Welker in that group for week 1, so you have Moss, Tate, Edelman, Aiken and Patten. That group is well below average. We still need to go out and get a big name WR, not an old veteran who is way past his prime like Patten
If they think the real Welker will be back by, say, November then there's no overiding reason for a "big name" WR. A rookie with good upside perhaps if they think Moss is gone after this year.
It's not that simple regarding Welker. It's incredibly hard to effectively put a probability number on the timeline of Welker's return along with his effectiveness. At this point in time, there's a large risk if you put a lot of eggs into the Welker basket.
We also have no idea of what their expectations (or even what fair expectations would be) for Tate is at this point.
Currently there is a lot of risk in the WR corps, and I think we really need to sign at least one really good (doesn't have to be great top-5 or 10) sure thing at WR. There has to be at least one sure bet to help take pressure off Moss and make teams PAY for double and triple teaming him.
I know but we also can't spend too many resources on WR when the team has a good number of other needs.
I disagree. Even if like you say that Welker will be back in November there is still a great need at the WR position. We definitely needed a 3rd WR this past season and David Patten isnt the answer. I am not saying we need to go out and get a Boldin or Marshall type big name, but a reliable producing WR is what we really need. With Welker's uncertain health the need at WR stands out even more.
How is this news? I understand reporting that he is doing well, but did anyone really expect him to be back for week one? I'd be pleasantly surprised if he was back halfway through the season. and who knows how he will respond. I highly doubt he will be as quick, but how much will he lose? Will he be back at 90% his former self, or 75%? He wasn't overly quick to begin. I am not sure he can overcome much of a drop in athletic ability. However, if anyone is going to be able to do it, it would be the White Wes Welker.
This guy is a Warrior. Don't expect anything less from WW on boucing back early beginning of reg season. Question was at the time how was Brady going to come back off his year long injury. What people took for granted was his knee wasn't a thought we quickly put it aside when he had finger, shoulder,ribs focused on. Sure Brady had his ups & downs this season rightfully so but his numbers were awesome as usual. I can see WW right back to his old double digit catches knowing how he prepares for a game.
I don't think Welker will be ready for week one but I also don't think WR is a huge need for this team. They have been going at it for a few years with two of the best in the game and this has skewed our reality a bit.
We still have one of the best in the game in Moss and at some point during the year we will get the other back (at what percentage remains to be seen).
Past that we have one player in Edelman who looks to be a good slot reciever (and still improving) and IMO that is 3 guys who make this not a focus point.
We also have a player in Tate returning to the field who we thought enough of to draft despite a major knee injury.
Than just in case when we get to TC we realize we likely will get nothing out of Welker or Tate this year we brought in someone who has a report with Brady and this system in Patten.
Clearly there are too many question marks to go into TC with just these guys but what we really need is one player who we truly have faith (no health issues and we feel is smart enough to pick up the system) will be able to be a number 2 or 3 receiver. This could be a FA or a Draft pick or both but when I hear the phrase "needs to be a focus" I think of the 07 season when we really did have a need and we filled it by trading for Moss and Welker. By no means does this team "need" a haul like that. We need a complimentary reciever we can rely on being in the line up because 2 of our WRs cant be relyed on because of health.
Where is the WR position on your list of needs?
I'm not exactly sure but we need potential starters at :
OG - if Neal leaves
TE - if Watson leaves
CB - if Bodden leaves.
I left out NT as we either have Wilfork or a lot more drafting capital.
WR fits in there somewhere. I'd almost prefer not to order them but for me it's something like :
I see the argument for moving WR up but I also see a lot of other needs.
I can't really complain with what you said, I see all those positions as needs. If they can address all of those needs there will be no problems and it would be a good off season.
I think we all knew that he wouldn't be available to start the season. This should give the (small) crowd that said last season that having both Moss and Welker were causing Brady not to try to spread the ball around a chance to see their theory in action. I'm not a doctor, but I can't see Welker coming back before Week 9 next season.
As I already stated, from surgery to return Braylon Edwards showed 4 years ago that Welker can be back for Week 1. It will require a near perfect timeline (no setbacks) but it can be done. I know they're different types of WR and also that ACL rehabs get better and more understood with each passing year; both of these make it an imperfect comparison but as they play the same position, it's a fairly good comparison.
Pass rush is and should be the number 1 need, then Oline then WR should be 3 ...
Resigning Faulk and Bodden should be ahead of the WR though..
As already stated, he can make it back by Week 1, but he isn't going to be the Welker that we're all accustomed to seeing.
Skewed or not, a reality is this offense has been built around the passing game, and that directly affects a defense which has sadly morphed into an offensive adjunct in the "Indy" style. Not my preference, but there it is. :idontgetit:
This is why I rate WR as NE's #1 "need" heading into the new League year.
Chief Patton is noted to not be an answer, but his presence does encourage me to believe BB and Caserio are looking to build the WR corps through the draft and not try to rely on picking over the Free Agency heap out there. Patton can rightly take some credit for the development of the New Orleans' WR corps, I think he and Moss will have their hands full as mentors this Spring.
Currently on the roster there's five youngsters who have WR as part of their defined role on the team - I'm hoping BB brings in at least two more through the draft and signs a couple more undrafted kids afterwards.
Welker rehabs, he's not an issue on PUP. When he's ready is when BB has to make a decision, until then he's not available - move on.
After a taste of Edelman and Tate, and reading the reports about Nunn before Tampa Bay signed him away, and thinking back to Branch and Givens, I think NE is better off trying to build up WR through the draft and not hope for the lucky breaks that were Moss and Welker.
Targeting WR further aids Special Teams: KR, PR, coverage and blocking roles.
If Moss isn't re-signed in 2011, that's a big hole to fill, I don't like any of the Free Agents, none of the RFAs do much for me either. So...
-- Welker unavailable. âˆš
-- No clearly identified player in the slot, X, and #4 roles (three holes). âˆš
-- No clearly identified reserve behind Moss (not to mention the other roles) (1-4 holes). âˆš
-- Moss in his contract year (future hole). âˆš
OLB can be alleviated quickly by re-signing TBC and Burgess (not fixed, alleviated). With a fully functional WR corps a big chunk of the pressure on OLB is relieved.
NT has been franchised, not a major issue now.
DE is healthier with the franchised NT, and drafting one top prospect to platoon with Wright goes a long way towards closing that hole.
CB gets a little messier by fixing WR first, but NE only really needs one (Bodden come home).
TE is an easy fix.
OL is an issue to protect Tommy, but the overall depth is already good - there are plenty of quality later round Tackles in this draft who can either back-up outside or slide inside.
A healthy WR corps helps the RBs in a pass first offense.
It all says fix WR first on my checklist.
Why care about having WW in wk #1 ? :bricks:
Rather have a FULLY healthy WW at wk #8 or 10, and more importantly going into the playoffs. We need him when it matters, and that surely isn't wk #1
Back by the opener? I'd be happy if he's 100% by the playoffs.
I don't want them to rush him back like they did Mayo, who now might be permanently impaired due to their hastiness. Good one.
It would be good if the offense could learn how to function w/o him, then it's a bonus when he comes back.
As for needs, we definitely need a good wr like LSU guy LaFell or dezmon briscoe, someone with a lot of game speed and game ability...agressiveness, unlike say, bethel johnson who just ran good in shorts. shame bb got fooled by that guy.
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