Guessing at the franchise tags for Graham/Samuel

[MrBigglesWorth]

at first i thought it's a no-brainer to franchise asante.

but it's very similar to the givens branch scenario.

now i'm not comparing hobbs to asante in terms of current value. but keep this in mind. it took asante 4 years to develop into this player, and hobbs is in his second year.

what if hobbs becomes as good as asante in two more years and he could because although he doesn't have the size, he is a gamer.

so this could set the precident to give two bug payouts and that will never happen.

whatever they give asante long term will set the team market.

the only thing i would see feasible is to franchise him for one year as not to let him walk for nothing.

but honestly i can see the pats going with hobbs and gay and then have a rookie on the bench or even having wilson as a corner.

right now there is alot of emotion in it because he's been so good, but when you take the emotion out of it, they're probably gonna let him walk.

 

[BelichickFan]

It's important to separate applying the Tag and paying him the money. If it comes to it, I'm fine paying that money to him for one year. But my reason to Franchise him is to control him. Trade him to a team we want to trade him to (aka not to The Jest) and not let him go wherever he wants.

 

[JR4]

Franchsing Samuel is a no brainer IMO. Partly because he's just about worth that money IMO. And second, even if we don't pay it, we keep control of him. He can't sign with whoever he wants. He can only sign with a team we're willing to trade him to - and we would surely get more in a trade than the comp pick.

I agree. Also it gives BB/SP time to find and develop a real good
replacement for Samuel if he doesn't want to do a long term with the PATs
and PATs keep him around for a year.

I really hope they can agree to a long term contract that is good for both.

 

[spacecrime]

Franchsing Samuel is a no brainer IMO. Partly because he's just about worth that money IMO. And second, even if we don't pay it, we keep control of him. He can't sign with whoever he wants. He can only sign with a team we're willing to trade him to - and we would surely get more in a trade than the comp pick.

Be aware that if Samuel signs the franchise offer, the Pats cannot trade him and must pay him. They can only trade him if he agrees ahead of time not to sign the offer.

If he signs the offer, he gets $7.8 million for one year, and then is a free agent next year and can sign with whoever he wants for as much as the market will allow.

When you pay a guy franchise money, you are giving him the average of the top five players at the position, more money than all but two players at his position. This is okay if the guy is at least one of the best three in the league. Otherwise you are overpaying for him.

Good as he is, I just don't think he is in the top ten, never mind top three.

 

[BelichickFan]

Be aware that if Samuel signs the franchise offer, the Pats cannot trade him and must pay him. They can only trade him if he agrees ahead of time not to sign the offer.

I don't think Samuel would be too quick to sign it. If he does, I have no problem overpaying him for one year. But most players want a longterm deal with a big signing bonus, not a one year deal. Like Branch, who was willing to play this year if we promised not to franchise him.

 

[Miguel]

Be aware that if Samuel signs the franchise offer, the Pats cannot trade him and must pay him. They can only trade him if he agrees ahead of time not to sign the offer.

How can a team trade a player that is unsigned??

 

[patchick]

When you pay a guy franchise money, you are giving him the average of the top five players at the position, more money than all but two players at his position. This is okay if the guy is at least one of the best three in the league. Otherwise you are overpaying for him.

Good as he is, I just don't think he is in the top ten, never mind top three.

I agree with all of this in principle, but there's a case to be made that the dramatic jump in the cap this season temporarily altered the playing field. Those top-five CB contracts were negotiated in "old" dollars, so they come at a discount relative to this year's free agent market.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

very valid point, alot changed in one year

 

[mgteich]

The transition tag for Graham makes sense to me.

 

[fillylabinga]

With the way DBs seem to get injured in Foxboro the Pats need to go into each season with 10 DBs either on the roster or speed dial. They can't afford to put that kind of money in one player who may or may not make it through the season.

In any other year, I don't think the Pats would pay a DB anywhere near $7M.

However, I think this year there is a possibility they would use a 1 year franchise tag for around $7M if Asante would play for that amount.

After all, what else are they going to use their $30M under the cap for? There is going to be a ton of money chasing very few good players this year and $7M for a good CB while Hobbs develops might look like a pretty good deal.

 

[kptmorgan04]

Joe - The initial reports had the Pats offering in the realm of Brian Williams money, which I believe is about 5 million a year with a 7 million signing bonus. The only thing I remember is that Samuel and his agent wanted a 10 million signing bonus and numbers closer to Ty Law's contract with the Pats.

Samuel isn't as good as Law. I'd rather trade him and rebuild than shell out money for someone who goes for the big hit but can't wrap up and tackle properly.

where did this info come from... all I have heard was the info in the globe this weekend and that whatever the intital offer was wasnt close. I would be willing to pay 5-6.5 a year for asante given the inflation of the NFL salaries

 

[pats1]

PFT says the franchise tag (for Tony Gonzalez) would be $7.83 mil...

 

[alamo]

Exclusive numbers don't get calculated until mid April of next season - they are the average of the 5 highest paid in the current and not the previous season.

Teams need to apply the tag in February, before the start of the league year. It's calculated at that time, based upon the season which just ended, to apply to the new league year which starts in March, and is not recalculated after that. It makes no sense for it to be calculated in April, when many players are still unsigned.

 

[spacecrime]

PFT says the franchise tag (for Tony Gonzalez) would be $7.83 mil...

Isn't that because Gonzale is the highest paid TE? So his franchise number is his salary + 20%.

 

[pats1]

Isn't that because Gonzale is the highest paid TE? So his franchise number is his salary + 20%.

Most likely. It's almost free agency time again so I'll have to brush up on all that stuff.

 

[AirForcePatFan]

I hope they keep both these guys, but I'm not holding my breath... I couldn't believe they let Willie, Deion, and David go last year... Adam, unfortunately, I wasn't to worried about, he was getting too demanding(and ****y)... The rookie has been having a good year...

 

[shirtsleeve]

When you pay a guy franchise money, you are giving him the average of the top five players at the position, more money than all but two players at his position. This is okay if the guy is at least one of the best three in the league. Otherwise you are overpaying for him.

Good as he is, I just don't think he is in the top ten, never mind top three.

Hmmm....I've heard this many times on this board. Where can we find the definitive stats on that subject? Some table that breaks down #passing plays # thrown at#int's#defenced#completed against, YAC against, etc. of the starting corners in the league. Its gotta be out there somewhere.
My impression of Asante is that he has good insticts for the ball, a fantastic break on it, good coverage skills, hits ok, tackles less than ok, and this year, developed very good hands. The last couple of seasons he always seemed to be missing int's but was there for them. Just no hands. This year he got those. He also seems to get burned for a big one when he misses on one of his breaks, and doesn't like to wrap his arms around a receiver when hitting them.
But these are my impressions. The cold table of numbers would tell more. Even #of passing plays he was in for vs #thrown at. This would indicate somewhat the kind of coverage he provided overall on a season by season basis.

 

[Miguel]

Thanks Miguel. For grins and giggles, how does it look for TBC?

In terms of "hardest to replace," I rank our three "starting" 2007 free agents - Banta-Cain, Graham, Samuel. Somehow I am sure there will be differing views...

Player Team Cap Number
Ray Lewis Baltimore $8,428,571
Zach Thomas Miami $7,287,000
Keith Bulluck Tennessee $7,075,333
Al Wilson Denver $6,383,333
Takeo Spikes Buffalo $6,300,000
Derrick Brooks Tampa Bay $6,097,083
London Fletcher Buffalo $5,900,000
Rosevelt Colvin New England $5,478,000
Donnie Edwards San Diego $5,350,000
Joey Porter Pittsburgh $5,237,000

$7,095,000 Franchise number
$6,354,000 Transistion number

 

[Miguel]

what is the transition tag #'s look like?

Chris McAlister Baltimore $8,407,082
Champ Bailey Denver $7,992,000
Nate Clements Buffalo $7,226,000
Charles Woodson Green Bay $6,709,330
Ronde Barber Tampa Bay $6,564,000
Sam Madison Miami $6,180,931
Samari Rolle Baltimore $5,200,000
Rashean Mathis Jacksonville $5,134,000
Dre' Bly Detroit $5,100,000
Antoine Winfield Minnesota $4,800,000

Transition number = $6,331,000

Tony Gonzalez Kansas City $6,531,370
Antonio Gates San Diego $4,860,000
Alge Crumpler Atlanta $4,355,000
Jeremy Shockey NY Giants $4,179,000
Kellen Winslow Cleveland $3,836,375
Kyle Brady Jacksonville $3,346,250
Jim Kleinsasser Minnesota $2,350,000
Jerame Tuman New Orleans $2,142,500
Eric Johnson San Francisco $2,050,000
Todd Heap Baltimore $1,800,000

Transistion Number = $3,545,000

 

[Miguel]

Teams need to apply the tag in February, before the start of the league year. It's calculated at that time, based upon the season which just ended, to apply to the new league year which starts in March, and is not recalculated after that. It makes no sense for it to be calculated in April, when many players are still unsigned.

http://www.nflpa.org/cba/cba_pdf/Article_XX_Franchise_and_Transition_Players.pdf

confirms that MLR is indeed correct.