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Groves talks 3-4, good stuff

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by BradyManny, Apr 1, 2008.

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  1. jeffbiologist

    jeffbiologist Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Well I dont think you need anything like a major overhaul, we did go 18-1!! Now we know that a team like the Giants creates a matchup problem. To solve this they could just as easily take a OL #1.... but you take the best player when you get a chance that high(7)...and the fact that Mankins contract comin up next year could be way to avoid that possible headache....
     
  2. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot In the Starting Line-Up

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    BM is saying exactly what I'm thinking. Adding speed to this front 7 is no "over haul" it's simply improving. I understand all the intrigue with Clady, I think he'll be great as well. but this is just one of those cases where you gotta see more then just talent. You draft Clady you make a good OL possibly great. You draft Gholston or Groves, your helping a lacking pass rush. I personally want Gholston just for the upside. That said, I'd be fine with Groves as well. I'm not sure at #7 though, that's a lot of dough.
     
  3. miDeuce

    miDeuce Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I'm with you guys, I'd be happy with Groves at #7. Trading down would worry me a bit that someone else would snag him. The other conversion project Derrick Harvey doesn't have that edge that Groves does. Did anyone else read Groves bio on NFL.com? He talks about how he just doesn't like quarterbacks, it's kinda funny and makes me want him even more.
     
  4. sebman2112

    sebman2112 In the Starting Line-Up

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    http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/quentin-groves?id=240

    My favorite part of that Profile?
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2008
  5. JoePats

    JoePats In the Starting Line-Up

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    seb, why would McShay have him all down to 60 in his mock? In this day in age where there are restrictions on cornerbacks and what they can do to receivers, the pass rusher is the most important part of a defense. The best pass rusher should be a first round pick.
     
  6. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I'm with you, and I'm curious to hear Sebmans reply.

    As I mentioned before, my guess is that Groves has more value to the 3-4 teams. That might have something to do with it. Reading some mock drafts and some Niners fans comments, he's not getting by them, and a lot of folks have said he wouldn't get by Jax either. He's most certainly not making it out of the first round.
     
  7. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I watched him once or twice last season and had a hard time projecting him as anything other than a ST demon at best.
     
  8. Seneschal2

    Seneschal2 In the Starting Line-Up

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    In the words of Belichick, "Pass rushers go early."

    Groves may fit 3-4 teams best, but there's bound to be a 4-3 team willing to take a chance on arguably the best pass rusher in the draft. IMO, he'll go much earlier than his current projection.
     
  9. mmasterkillah

    mmasterkillah On the Game Day Roster

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    I guarantee Groves goes in the top 15.
     
  10. The Hurricane

    The Hurricane Practice Squad Player

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    I've been watching whatever film I can get my hands on recently (which I'll admit isn't much, just short clips on youtube and the like) however of all the first round talent available at DE and LB the ONLY players that seem like they would make good LBs for us are Chris Long (won't be around), Vernon Gholston, and Quentin Groves.

    Keith Rivers looks like a BAD tackler. Even on his highlight reels he doesn't bring guys down on the initial hit. He does that stupid wrap and trip B.S., which isn't gonna fly for a starting LB in the NFL.

    Harvey is way too slow to play anything other than DE. I get the same impression about Lawrence Jackson.

    Cliff Avril has some potential and I wouldn't be surprised if we are giving him some serious consideration as a 2nd round pick, however I'm not sure if he will even be available by the time we are picking in the second round.

    Meanwhile 7 seems very high for us to pick a corner. Our defensive scheme doesn't require an elite man coverage corner. In fact Cason seems like the best fit for our system, yet 7 is WAY to high to draft him. OL seems like it would be a possibility but we haven't interviewed or worked out ANYBODY at the position. I honestly wouldn't be entirely surprised if we draft Limas Sweed in the case where all our LBs are taken by the time we are picking.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2008
  11. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    Ok... you had me going until you dropped Limas Sweed's name. Why are we drafting a WR in the 1st round again? If no LB's are available, we can get a top ranked CB instead. And I think that at least 1 of Gholston/Groves will be available when we pick.
     
  12. sebman2112

    sebman2112 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I've personally heard Todd call Groves one of the two best pass rushers in the NCAA, so maybe he believes the injury (dislocated toes) Groves sustained in 2007 could still have a significant impact on his draft stock?

    I've previously said that I wondered how much it would possibly effect him, but he's now healthy, looked good at the Combine, and also performed well at his Pro Day, so I wouldn't expect the injury to be much of a concern.

    Only time will tell, but I think his suddenness, attitude, top end speed, and fluid movement will be intriguing to a number of teams, in the first round.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2008
  13. The Hurricane

    The Hurricane Practice Squad Player

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    I guess i should have been clearer. It is very unlikely Groves gets picked before #7 and if for some reason he is gone (along with Long and Gholston) it means a big time player will have dropped to us and we should have no trouble trading down, which is exactly what we will do in that situation.

    All I meant to say is that there is almost no chance of us taking a corner or an OL with the 7 pick for the reasons I meantioned above. So if for some bizarre reason all 3 of those guys are taken and we can't trade down the only other move that makes sense for us is to draft the top rated WR as a replacement for Stalworth. Idk maybe I'm wrong and we WILL draft a corner in the worst case scenario. I'm just very skeptical it happens in that position.
     
  14. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    You are saying we should draft a WR at #7 before we look at CB or OL... when we have Randy Moss and Wes Welker under contract?? Wow. I don't even want to say anything in response to that because there are so many ways I could tear into that reasoning, it wouldn't even be funny.

     
  15. The Hurricane

    The Hurricane Practice Squad Player

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    no I'm saying we WOULD. If i was the pats front office in that situation I would take an OL but I'm not so it doesn't matter. We haven't expressed the slightest interest in Olinemen. You'd think we would at least interview the guys we are contemplating drafting, no? So OL isn't happening and drafting a corner #7 would just be plain stupid with our defensive scheme. We need corners that are good at zone coverage, this is not a highly demanded ability by most teams. We have no business taking a top rated corner because we have no use for one. They are rated so high to begin with because they are good at man coverage. The corners that actually fit our system won't be taken until the 2nd round at the earliest.

    WR is a need we are looking to fill. We have interviewed each of the top 10 or so WR. Is it the need we are HOPING to fill with our #7 pick? of course not. But this scenario is less than ideal to say the least. The fact that we have moss and welker is irrelevant. Welker is a SLOT WR. He's crazy good at it and will be a huge factor in our offense, but the slot WR is the third WR on the field. We don't have a true 2nd WR to play opposite Moss, and thats why we are looking to take one at some point in the first 3 rounds.
     
  16. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The Problem with your line of thought (and I like your thinking outside the box) is that there are no receivers worth the #7 pick. No Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, or Roy Williams this year. In fact, there are very few with a first round grade.

    In your scenario, C Long, Gholston, and Groves all go in the Top 6. But no corner is worth the #7, and since Belichick hasn't worked out a OL we're not taking one. I disagree with that last bit, but I think I've represented your position correctly?

    Under this scenario, three of Jake Long, Ryan Clady, Matt Ryan, Glenn Dorsey, Darren McFadden, and Sedric Ellis are available. I feel confident that the pick will be valuable for other teams to trade for. If J Long is there, he's a no-brainer pick. But before we take Sweed or another WR at #7 (remember Belichick says WR is the hardest position to project), we'd probably go with one of the D Lineman, Ryan, Harvey, or even Albert or Rivers.
     
  17. The Hurricane

    The Hurricane Practice Squad Player

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    yes you represented my position correctly, and I agree with you at least about the trading down part. I don't see us taking rivers or harvey.

    the scenario I posed is quite unrealistic and isn't going to happen so I'm content to drop it.

    On another note, if we trade down THEN I could see us taking a corner.

    If you don't believe me about the OLinemen read the 2nd or 3rd to last post in the "Official Pats Prospects Workouts/Visits" thread. In there is a comprehensive list of who we have and haven't interviewed and had private visits and workouts for. The one exception to my claim about the OL would be if Jake Long drops to us. I think he is so talented that we would feel safe in drafting him without having him in for a PW or an interview.
     
  18. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I don't disagree with your overall thinking....I don't think the presence of Moss and Gaffney would preclude the drafting of a WR @ #7, IF there were a WR that BB thought highly enough of.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2008
  19. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Another pass rusher with fantastic college stats, is Davis of UCLA. He had something like 41 tackles for loss as an extremely under sized speed DE, not to mention that he gave USC fits.
    He worked out as an OLB in the all star games and didn't look that bad.

    I know the scouts ding him for not having a scultured body like Gholston, but his production is better than Gholston's and/or Groves.

    He doesn't run like Groves or Howard of Georgia and he might be even worse against the run than Groves and Howard as well, but he knows how to get to the QB.

    The more I read, the more I think Jacksonville is locked in on Groves, if he lasts that long.
     
  20. sebman2112

    sebman2112 In the Starting Line-Up

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    More from Groves in a Q&A with Matt Maiocco of The Santa Rosa Press Democrat:

    FYI: The article is obviously in relation to the 49ers interest in him, how he would fit on the team, what Groves thought of his meeting with the team, and if he would like to play for them. There is a little more to this piece, including a few additional questions. The Writer has responded to some of the comments left, as well.
    http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/default.asp?item=2190034&mode=
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2008
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