Grizzlies: The Offensive Front Line

[Off The Grid]

Grizzlies: The Offensive Front Line

A few Threads have come and gone, mostly because the authors have lives that are considerably more balanced than mine. If no one has any objection, and with the College season entering the stretch run, I thought I'd roll this thread out there ~ and a few others like it ~ as a means of consolidating the thoughts of anyone who wishes to make this Thread their own. Of course this is not intended to replace individual Threads; only to offer a One Stop Shop for each category.

My idea is to employ this thread as an Emporium ~ a gathering place ~ for any and all Rankings, Scouting Reports, Opinions, Arguments, and other assorted Random Thoughts that might occur to any of us on the subject, or that we might wish to pull in from other sources. I'll certainly be doing so, because it helps me to have all my thoughts on one subject consolidated, but if anyone else wishes to join in, or take over, I hope you'll feel free to do just that!!

I'll get things rolling with an overview...

75,000

Centers

This looks like a pretty weak class. I am a staunch advocate of drafting Grizzlies early and often. For instance, I would've jumped all over Marquis de Pouncey, last year. But although I am anxious to draft Dan Koppen's replacement as early as possible, it seems to me that it would probably be a reach, were we to touch anyone in the first few rounds, this year.

Top Tier

Steve Wisniewski, Penn State ~ 6.3/300 ~ 2-3rd Round Caliber. Technically proficient.
Kristofer O'Dowd, USC ~ 6.4/300 ~ Great tools, but riddled with injuries.

Some Day 3 Guys

Kevin Kowalski, Toledo ~ 6.3/300 ~
Brandon Fusco, Slippery Rock ~ 6.4/300 ~
Tim Barnes, Missouri ~ 6.4/300
Zane Taylor, Utah ~ 6.2/300
Jake KirkPatrick, TCU ~ 6.3/305
Ryan Bartholemew, Syracuse ~ 6.1/300
Alex LinnenKohl, Oregon State ~ 6.2/305
Ryan Pugh, Auburn ~ 6.1/300

X Factor

*Mike Brewster, Ohio State ~ 6.5/295 ~ High Grade Junior who might declare.

Binkie Alert!!

Brandon Fusco, Slippery Rock ~ 6.4/300

Brandon Fusco, in particular, is a guy I hear whispers about, as a potentially explosive Blocker: A Mauler with surprising athleticism who gets out to the next level consistently, but who's a Small Schooler ~ Slippery Rock!! ~ who's flying under the radar.


Guards

I'm none too thrilled about the Guards, this year, either. Give me the right guys, and I'll spend 3 1st Rounders on the O Line, if the D Line is set...But these aren't the right guys!!

Top Tier

Rodney Hudson, Florida State ~ 6.2/285
Mike Pouncey, Florida ~ 6.4/310 ~ As a Center, he makes one HELL of a Guard!!
Orlando Franklin, Miami ~ 6.7/315 ~ Left Tackle Conversion, I expect.
Benjamin Ijalana, Villanova ~ 6.4/320
Steve Schilling, Michigan ~ 6.5/310
Clint Boling, Georgia ~ 6.5/305
John Moffit, Wisconsin ~ 6.4/325
Justin Boren, Ohio State ~ 6.3/320

Some Late Rounders

Andrew Jackson, Fresno State ~ 6.5/295
Bryant Browning, Ohio State ~ 6.3/315
Will Rackley, Lehigh ~ 6.4/305
Zach Hurd, Connecticut ~ 6.7/325
Dave Arkin, Missouri State ~ 6.5/300
Keith Williams, Nebraska ~ 6.5/310

X Factors

DeMarcus Love, Arkansas ~ 6.5/315 ~ Possible Conversion. Many OT's are, this year, but he is the highest ranked: a possible 1st Rounder.

*Nate Potter, Boise State ~ 6.6/295 ~ High Grade Junior who'll probably come out.

*Ryan Miller, Colorado ~ 6.8/310 ~ High Grade Junior who might come out.

Binkie Alert!!

Benjamin Ijalana, Villanova ~ 6.4/320

Small School Raw Talent with enormous upside. Powerfull Punch. Strong Hands. Ferocious. Tremendous Lateral Agility. Exceptional Vertical Drive will win him the great majority of Leverage Battles when he gets coached up. Impressive athleticism on the move, and an aggressive, hostile regard towards Defenders. Raw as hell...and that's where we come in. Most teams will not invest a late 2nd Rounder or a 3rd on a Right Guard who's going to need a lot of work on his technique before he's ready to step in there...But most teams don't have Coach Bill's Vision...or Dante Scarnecchia.


Tackles

There's a little more, here, to work with, but the Tackles, too, are pretty weak, this year. That could change, though, if some High Caliber Juniors and Red Shirt Sophomores decide to take the plunge...

Top Tier

Derek Sherrod, Mississippi State ~ 6.5/305
Anthony Castonzo, Boston College ~ 6.7/310
DeMarcus Love, Arkansas ~ 6.5/315
Nate Solder, Colorado ~ 6.8/315
Gabe Carimi, Wisconsin ~ 6.7/320
*Matt Reyonolds, Brigham Young ~ 6.6/320

Some Second Tier Guys

Jason Pinkston, Pittsburgh ~ 6.4/310
Marcus Cannon, TCU ~ 6.5/360

Some Day 3 Guys

*Blake DeChristopher, Virginia Tech ~ 6.5/305
Danny Watkins, Baylor ~ 6.4/310
Jim Carpenter, Alabama ~ 6.5/300
Marcus Gilbert, Florida ~ 6.5/320
Jim Brewer, Indiana ~ 6.6/330
Joe Barksdale, LSU ~ 6.5/320
Chris Hairston, Clemson ~ 6.7/325
Curt Porter, Jacksonville State ~ 6.7/315
Lee Ziemba, Auburn ~ 6.6/320


Late Round Dark Horses

Darius Morris, Temple ~ 6.4/310
DJ Young, Michigan State ~ 6.5/300
Cody Habben, Washington ~ 6.6/290
Jah Reid, UCF ~ 6.7/325


X Factors

*Tyron Smith, USC ~ 6.6/285 ~ An exceptional talent, Smith could vault ahead of the LOT of them, were he to declare.

*Al Netter, NorthWestern ~ 6.6/310...And Netter could, in turn, edge out Smith.

**Bobbie Massie, Mississippi ~ 6.6/312 ~ The top rated Offensive Tackle out of a class ~ 2013 ~ that is replete with Red Shirt Sophomores who are far more dangerous than their Senior counterparts at this position.

**Matt Kalil, USC ~ 6.6/295 ~ Smith is, potentially, the best prospect in this Class...and Kalil's addition to the USC lineup forced Smith to remain at Right Tackle. He is...very good.

**Tanner Hawkinson, Kansas ~ 6.36/295 ~ Yet another UnderClassMan with more FirePower than any of the Seniors!!

**Riley Rieff, Iowa ~ 6.6/300 ~ Rieff might be the best of them all.

If ANY of those 6 UnderClassMen declare, they’d be worth considering, because any of them could eventually go Top 10, if they hold off for a year…

Binkie Alert!!

Nate Solder, Colorado ~ 6.8/315

I think these guys are prime candidates to get over drafted. But Nate Solder does offer an absolutely amazing blend of Size, Power, and Athleticism. He, too, needs a lot of work, though, and, as with Benjamin Ijalana, that could play in our favor: The reluctance of 31 other GMs to invest such a critical Pick in a guy who's skills are raw ~ he's a recent Offensive End Conversion ~ could very well drop a 1st Round Caliber Talent to the mid or later 2nd Round...where we could pounce on him, put him to work in The Dante Scarnecchia School of Extraordinary Grizzlies...and spend the rest of the decade with, potentially, the best Offensive Tackle Tandem in the nation.

 

[Off The Grid]

Stefan Wisniewski Scouting Report


SideLine Scouting

Stefan Wisniewski - Penn St. (HT: 6-3 - WT: 299)
Projection: 2nd Round


Positives: Outstanding NFL bloodlines... Athletic... Versatile, will get equal looks at Guard as well... Intelligent, heady, good football IQ, good awareness... Good pass protector... Good quickness, quick pass set... Quick initial step, fires off the ball... Natural knee bender... Plays with good hand placement and arm extension... Good agility... Good lateral movement and slide... Does a good job reacting to stunts and zone drops... Reasonably good lower body strength... Good anchor... Very solid run blocker... Good punch... Good strength at POA, very solid upper body strength... Can move defenders off the line... Plays with good leverage... Stays low and drives his legs on contact... Understands angles and positioning... Can pull and trap block well... Can get to the second level... Good flexibility and body control, breaks down well in space... Does a nice job blocking on the move, can explode into his blocks... Good overall technique... Very solid balance... Plays physical... Stays on his blocks, hard to disengage from... Tenacious, determined, competitive... Plays physical, works hard to finish his assignments... Good character... Good fit in ZBS, similar in many ways to former Denver Bronco Ben Hamilton.

Negatives: Narrow base... Will lunge into some blocks... Inconsistent balance... Not especially strong at POA... Lacks ideal size at Guard, will need to add some bulk... Has some past injury concerns.

Strikes me as a solid, proficient Center who's probably gonna get drafted far too early for my tastes.

I'm more than happy to invest a 1st Rounder in a Grizzly of the stature of Nick Mangold or Marquis de Pouncey...but a 2nd Rounder in the Wiz?? Meh.

 

[Off The Grid]

SideLine Scouting on C Stefan Wisniewski

Stefan Wisniewski - Penn St. (HT: 6-3 - WT: 299)

Projection: 2nd Round


Positives: Outstanding NFL bloodlines... Athletic... Versatile, will get equal looks at Guard as well... Intelligent, heady, good football IQ, good awareness... Good pass protector... Good quickness, quick pass set... Quick initial step, fires off the ball... Natural knee bender... Plays with good hand placement and arm extension... Good agility... Good lateral movement and slide... Does a good job reacting to stunts and zone drops... Reasonably good lower body strength... Good anchor... Very solid run blocker... Good punch... Good strength at POA, very solid upper body strength... Can move defenders off the line... Plays with good leverage... Stays low and drives his legs on contact... Understands angles and positioning... Can pull and trap block well... Can get to the second level... Good flexibility and body control, breaks down well in space... Does a nice job blocking on the move, can explode into his blocks... Good overall technique... Very solid balance... Plays physical... Stays on his blocks, hard to disengage from... Tenacious, determined, competitive... Plays physical, works hard to finish his assignments... Good character... Good fit in ZBS, similar in many ways to former Denver Bronco Ben Hamilton.

Negatives: Narrow base... Will lunge into some blocks... Inconsistent balance... Not especially strong at POA... Lacks ideal size at Guard, will need to add some bulk... Has some past injury concerns.

NFP's Wes Bunting on C Stefan Wisniewski

OL Stefen Wisniewski: No. 61 (6-3, 297)

A natural bender who showcases good flexibility and can really fire off the ball and get into opposing linemen quickly. Has a strong lower half and does a nice job quickly scoop blocking around defensive linemen, driving his legs through contact and washing defenders away from the play. Plays with natural leverage and consistently gets under his man and locks him out at the point of attack. Possesses the body control to chip and get out to the second level, where he exhibits a jarring punch on contact. Displays good technique and bend in all areas of his game and can really sit into his base and anchor inside. Continues to rework his hands and fight for inside leverage and is really tough to disengage from in the run game. Now, gets a bit ahead of himself on slide down blocks at times and will lose his balance trying to stay on defenders down the line. However, he’s a better in-line run blocker than given credit for, quickly firing off the football, pumping his legs through contact and creating a bit of surge inside while maintaining his balance through the play.

Snaps and steps quickly and showcases natural lateral ability, smoothly changing directions and keeping his base down when asked to mirror in space. Is surprisingly heavy handed, consistently is able to get under the pad level of defenders and does a nice job moving his feet and sliding with opponents through contact. Occasionally gets caught overextending into blocks from his upper body and can be slipped at times, but for the most part is very patient and technically sound into contact.
Impression: You can tell he comes from a family of former NFL linemen. He’s technically sound, moves well through contact, sticks to blocks and looks like a guy capable of starting from day one at the next level at either guard or center. However, to me he looked more impressive on tape as a guard.

Strikes me as a solid, proficient Center who's probably gonna get drafted far too early for my tastes.

I'm more than happy to invest a 1st Rounder in a Grizzly of the stature of Nick Mangold or Marquis de Pouncey...but a 2nd Rounder in the Wiz?? Meh.

 

[Off The Grid]

SideLine Scouting on C Rodney Hudson

Rodney Hudson - Florida St. (HT: 6-2 - WT: 290)

Projection: 2nd-3rd Round


Positives: Athletic... Heady, good awareness... Plays with excellent overall technique and knee bend... Uses his hands well... Possesses very solid playing strength... Good initial quickness, fires out of his stance... Good agility, very solid footwork... Good run blocker... Keeps feet moving on contact... Plays reasonably low and with good leverage... Does a good job on pulls and traps... Gets to the second level quickly... Takes good angles... Good flexibility and body control... Breaks down well and does a very good job blocking in space... Good pass protector... Good knee bender... Sets up quickly... Good lateral mobility and slide... Re-directs reasonably well... Reacts quickly to stunts and blitzes... Excellent and consistent hand placement, always keeps his hands inside... Good awareness, keeps head on a swivel... Keeps his feet driving throughout his blocks... Works hard to finish his assignments, determined, consistently gives his best effort... Gets and maintains good leverage... Good mental and physical toughness... Refuses to be dominated... Near perfect (maybe only) fit in ZBS... Will get some consideration at Center as well.

Negatives: Serious size limitations, undersized, needs to bulk up 12-20 lbs. to remain at Guard... Needs to improve overall playing strength a little... Doesn't possess a great anchor and will get pushed back at times... Bends at the waist, leans into some blocks... Doesn't hold up especially well to bull rushers... Missed a couple games in 2009 with knee injury.

NFP's Wes Bunting on C Rodney Hudson

OG Rodney Hudson: No. 62 (6-2, 288)

An undersized interior lineman who lacks ideal height but exhibits noticeably long arms in comparison with the rest of his frame and exhibits impressive athleticism in all areas of his game. Quickly gets out of his stance in the run game, firing off the football, reaching targets off his body and consistently eliminating them from the play. Is very comfortable in space and has the kind of body control/range to absolutely dominate at the second level.

Exhibits an impressive first step off the snap in the pass game as well, quickly getting his hands up and extending his arms into blocks. Plays with natural leverage and routinely is able to beat opposing linemen to their spot — even vs. explosive one-gappers — and get under their pad level at the point. However, isn’t as polished as a technician as many are making him out to be. Has a tendency to get a bit overextended with his footwork and will lunge into blocks bending at the waist, which causes him to lose his base initially and can get jolted on contact. But, does a nice job quickly regaining his balance, sinking his hips and achieving the leverage needed to anchor.

Exhibits impressive change of direction skills and lateral agility for the position. Displays the ability to cleanly slide his feet and mirror through contact, and possesses impressive range when asked to redirect and pick up a blitzing backer. Demonstrates heavier hands than given credit for as well and can really stick to blocks inside.

Impression: Can be bullied at times initially off the snap, but regains his balance well and looks like a potential starter in a zone-blocking scheme at the next level.

Definitely a starting caliber Center, but I question whether we should invest an early pick on that: I'd rather either go bargain shopping or invest heavily in a potential Elite Center.

 

[Off The Grid]

SideLine Scouting on C Kristofer O'Dowd

Kristofer O'Dowd - USC (HT: 6-4 - WT: 300)

Projection: 4th Round


Positives: Heady, good instincts for the position... Explosive... Good length... Good pass blocker, quick first step... Quick pass set... Uses his hands well... Good footwork, good lateral movement and slide... Blocks with solid leverage in pass protection... Does a nice job redirecting... Very solid run blocker... Adequate strength at POA... Can generate solid power... Plays with a solid base... Very good contact balance... Gets to the second level and seals linebackers well... Does an adequate job hitting moving targets... Brings his feet along with him... Solid flexibility and body control... Carries his pads well... Plays with good technique... Good mental toughness... Aggressive, gives a good effort... Good fit as a Guard in a ZBS.

Negatives: Plays a little high at times, allows defender under his pads... Needs to get stronger and show a little more consistency at POA... Doesn't anchor well against bull rushers... Not a bigtime pile mover, doesn't get a lot of movement... Doesn't get much leverage drive blocking... Hands are quick but lack much pop... Doesn't look very fluid in space, will overextend, reach and lunge... Not a great finisher... His durability (inability to stay healthy) will hurt his draft stock.

NFP's Wes Bunting on C Kristofer O'Dowd

C Kristofer O’Dowd: No. 61 (6-5, 300)

A tall, long center who sits into his stance well and can snap and step quickly off the line. Does a nice job getting his hands up and long arms into blocks and initially can dictate on contact. Has the ability to consistently gain inside leverage in the run game and generate an initial push off the football. However, he allows himself to get too upright into blocks and fails to continue to drive defenders off the football. Showcases a good burst off the football and can quickly get into linemen off his frame and seal on perimeter runs. But, looks to lumber a bit anytime he’s exposed to space and will struggle to break down on contact. Uses his long arms to stick to linemen well on slide down blocks, but isn’t the type of athlete who can cleanly stay on to athletic defenders through the play.

Possesses a good first step off the snap in the pass game and uses his length well to keep linemen from initially getting into his frame and bullying him off the ball. Does a nice job instantly dropping his base and has the ability to anchor vs. even bigger defensive linemen. However, he isn’t overly fluid on contact, has a tendency to get overextended and upright in his lower half and will allow opposing linemen to disengage laterally from his initial punch. However, he does have the ability to redirect and get his hands back on defenders once they gain a step inside, keeping them from cleanly making their way up the field. But, he doesn’t strike me as a guy who can consistently slide his feet and stay on blocks through contact one-on-one at the next level. Also, he’s had a really tough time staying healthy during the course of his career and his medical report is something worth monitoring. He will play through pain, but there is a lot of tape of him out there where he just looks banged up.

Impression: I don’t think he’s the type of athlete or top-tier center prospect many are making him out to be. And I honestly can’t see him excelling in any area of the game at the next level. Looked more like a reserve type center to me.

Over Rated AND Injury Prone. NOW how much would you pay??

 

[Off The Grid]

SideLine Scouting on C Tim Barnes

Tim Barnes - Missouri (HT: 6-4 - WT: 307)

Projection: 6th Round

Positives: Athletic... Intelligent... Versatile, might move to Guard at the next level... Very solid pass protector... Good quickness... Sets up quickly... Very solid footwork and agility... Plays with solid knee bend... Does a nice job sliding and mirroring defender... Can redirect reasonably well, solid awareness, okay at picking up stunts... Can explode out of his stance when run blocking but gets a little too upright, ... Plays with leverage and generally drives his feet on contact... Maintains reasonably good pad level... Gets and maintains good position, seals off the action well... Can pull... Can get to the second level and does a nice job blocking on the move... Keeps his head on a swivel... Good flexibility and body control... Good motor.

Negatives: Not real strong at POA... Not a pile mover... Light handed... Gets too high and will reach, lean and overextend... Bends at the waist... Occasionally stops his feet upon contact.

NFP's Wes Bunting on C Tim Barnes

OL Tim Barnes: No. 62 (6-4, 297)

Snaps and steps quickly off the line and has the type of initial burst to comfortably get into defenders off his frame, get his feet around and seal inside. But, isn’t real powerful on contact and has a tendency to rock his arms/hands back and forth in order to stay on blocks through the play. However, exhibits good lower body coordination and footwork, moves well through contact and has the lateral agility to seal defenders from the ball in the run game. Looks natural pulling in space and displays the body control to reach the second level and blow up an opposing target. Nevertheless, he does struggle moving defenders off the ball in the run game and isn’t built for an in-line scheme at the next level.

Looks natural in pass protection. Isn’t overly physical initially at the point of attack when a defender lines up over his face. But exhibits the type of flexibility to sit into his stance, extend his arms and pick up stunting/slanting defenders inside. Looks natural keeping his base down, sliding his feet and can mirror in space. Possesses above average lateral range, can redirect cleanly and anchor with some consistency through the play. Does a nice job extending his hands into contact and looked a lot more balanced this year with his punch when trying to gain inside leverage. At times will still get his hands outside the target in the run game, but improved significantly in this area from 2008.

Impression: He’s an above-average athlete who can bend and redirect. Looks like a potential draftabale center to me who should have a good shot at making an NFL roster and possibly contributing down the line.

Projected to go deep in Day 3, a definite Value opportunity.

More from Bunting:

The more I watch Missouri center Tim Barnes the more I think he’s one of the best centers in this year’s class.

Watching him get out to the second level in the run game Saturday and help spring some long runs by breaking down and sealing in space was one of the biggest reasons why the Tigers were able to ice the game late. Plus, he can sit into his stance, slide his feet in the pass game and looks like a guy who will continue to boost his draft stock as the season goes on.

That gets my attention: The ability to get down field is vital to the development of a dominant Run Game.

A name to remember.

 

[Off The Grid]

SideLine Scouting on C Alex LinnenKohl

Alex Linnenkohl - Oregon St. (HT: 6-2 - WT: 300)

Projection: 6th Round


Positives: Athletic... Heady, intelligent, good football IQ... Good pass blocker... Good lateral blocking range... Sets up quickly... Good knee bend... Good arm extension and hand placement... Good lateral movement and slide... Very solid anchor... Seldom lunges into his blocks... Solid run blocker... Gets into his run blocks reasonably quick... Solid drive blocker... Gets a good push... Stays low, plays with good leverage... Can pull and seal inside on the corner... Can get to the second level... Good flexibility and body control... Breaks down reasonably well and does a nice job blocking in space... Plays with a mean streak... Hard worker, tenacious, plays with passion.

Negatives: Not a particularly good finisher, needs to stay on blocks longer... Needs to get stronger at POA... Can be pushed back into the pocket... Light hands... Doesn't generate much power.

NFP's Wes Bunting on C Alex LinnenKohl

C Alex Linnenkohl: No. 60 (6-2, 303)

He’s on the shorter side, but his lack of ideal height allows him to play with consistent leverage on contact. Snaps and steps quickly off the line in the run game and showcases the ability to consistently get his hands inside the chest plate of opposing defenders. Isn’t real physical on contact, but has the ability to get his feet around blocks and seal from the football. Lacks ideal upper body strength and isn’t a real velcro player, but can create initial creases inside off the ball. Is an impressive athlete when asked to pivot out of his stance, pull and reach defenders on the move. Showcases good range, gets up to speed quickly and has the body control to consistently chop down his targets in space.

Displays above-average athletic ability in the pass game. Has the flexibility to keep his base down, slide his feet in space and extend his arms into contact. However, doesn’t generate much power on his punch, lacks ideal base strength and struggles to stick to blocks through the play. Relies on his lateral agility to mirror inside, but he can be overwhelmed by more physical linemen one-on-on.

Impression: I love his range, body control and violence when asked to pull and cut down defenders in space. Lacks ideal size and looks limited to a zone-blocking scheme at the next level, but has a good chance of making an NFL roster and could eventually fight for some paying time down the line if he continues to add strength.

Projected as a 7th or 8th Rounder, LinnenKohl highlights the intriguing question about the optimum height for a Center. It would seem that the lower his center of gravity, the more of a Leverage advantage he would have on Tackles ~ up to a point, of course. But the premier Centers in this league ~ Nick Mangold, Ryan Kalil, and Alex Mack, for instance ~ are all 6.3 or taller.

Jeff Saturday, on the other hand, is 6.2.

Bunting really loves this guy, and his Coaches RAVE about him:

Scout?s notebook: offense | National Football Post

One guy who isn’t getting a ton of love in the center class at this stage is Oregon State’s Alex Linnenkohl. But, he’s a gifted athlete who showcases good range, body control and violence when asked to pull and be a move guy. Plus, he’s pretty athletic in pass protection and despite his lack of ideal power he does have the athleticism to hold up inside as a mirror guy. Now, there are some scouts I have talked with that question his size, but everyone will tell you that the Oregon State coaching staff just raves about this kid and in my opinion he definitely offers enough to warrant a draft pick, can make an NFL roster and with some time it wouldn’t shock me at all if he’s fighting for playing time.

Bunting describes him as borderline guy who'll probably scrape for playing time, and I wouldn't be surprised if a guy like that actually wins a starting job, at some point.

Personally, I want somebody more explosive, like Brandon Fusco. Even better, if we can get Mike Brewster, next year. But this is definitely a High Character Scrapper, and a guy to keep an eye on.

 

[Off The Grid]

SideLine Scouting on C Ryan Pugh

Ryan Pugh - Auburn (HT: 6-3½ - WT: 292)

Projection: 7th Round


Positives: Versatile... Smart, heady... Good awareness, keeps his head on a swivel... Solid athlete... Good agility... Good initial quickness... Very solid knee bend... Good lateral movement and slide... Stays square... Redirects quickly... Keeps his feet moving... Can turn his man, does a nice job sealing from the action... Can pull and get to the second level... Takes good angles in space... Carries his pads well... Good flexibility and body control... Breaks down well and does a nice job blocking on the move... Good initial contact balance... Good mental toughness... Gives a good effort, works hard to finish his blocks.

Negatives: Allows defenders under his pads... Not very strong at POA, can be pushed back into the pocket... Will bend at the waist and lose his balance... Loses ground to strong bull rushers... Needs a lot of strength work.

NFP's Wes Bunting on C Ryan Pugh

OC Ryan Pugh: No. 50 (6-1, 295)


A shorter, undersized offensive lineman who exhibits smooth footwork and good body control off the snap. Is a seasoned guy who has experience both at tackle and inside at center. Showcases good initial quickness off the ball, keeps his base down through contact, gets his hands up quickly and is surprisingly coordinated and rangy in space. Isn’t real long armed and allows defenders to get into his frame and rip themselves free through contact. Lacks ideal anchor strength as well and can be bullied at times. However, works hard and possesses the fluidity and natural mirror ability to consistently slide his feet through the play.


Displays good body control on the move in the run game. Quickly is able to get out of his stance and reach block with the range/coordination to routinely chop down defenders off his frame. Does a nice job generating leverage for himself when asked to get into blocks off his frame and seal inside. Isn’t real heavy handed or powerful, but has a good first step, extends his arms well into contact and initially can seal from the football. However, lacks ideal anchor strength and can really be jolted on contact when someone is lined up over his face. Is quick to turn his defender from the play and pull the rug out from under him when getting bullied inside, but lacks the strength to consistently hold the point. Is a much better move player who looks comfortable sticking to defenders on slide down blocks and using his athleticism to create angles in the run game.

Impression: A gifted move player who has the ability to slide his feet, maintain balance and cut down defenders in space. Needs to get stronger, but has a skill set that could definitely stick in more of a zone-blocking scheme.

Yet another short, yet athletic, late round Bargain Shop Prospect!!

 

[Snake Eyes]

SideLine Scouting on C Alex LinnenKohl



NFP's Wes Bunting on C Alex LinnenKohl



Projected as a 7th or 8th Rounder, LinnenKohl highlights the intriguing question about the optimum height for a Center. It would seem that the lower his center of gravity, the more of a Leverage advantage he would have on Tackles ~ up to a point, of course. But the premier Centers in this league ~ Nick Mangold, Ryan Kalil, and Alex Mack, for instance ~ are all 6.3 or taller.

Jeff Saturday, on the other hand, is 6.2.

Bunting really loves this guy, and his Coaches RAVE about him:

Scout?s notebook: offense | National Football Post



Bunting describes him as borderline guy who'll probably scrape for playing time, and I wouldn't be surprised if a guy like that actually wins a starting job, at some point.

Personally, I want somebody more explosive, like Brandon Fusco. Even better, if we can get Mike Brewster, next year. But this is definitely a High Character Scrapper, and a guy to keep an eye on.

The stuff you'd really need to find out is what they don't test for: muscular explosiveness and the ability to maintain it, technique, and coachability.

Seeing how a guy reps out with 225 tells you nothing about explosiveness, if you wanted to stick with bench press (bad idea) it would actually make more sense to use an incline bench, the angle of the spine in relation to the arm is closer to what happens in the game. That being said the key is the ability to accelerate their arms away from their body, to explode. I'd much rather measure how quickly they can push a sled or give them a 125lb bag of sand and see how far they can throw it.

Then you want to see how they maintain that ability over the course of a game, people use to talk about how Herschel Walker used to get stronger as the game went on, which from a strict ATP point is impossible. What likely happened is that his opponent's strength degraded at a quicker rate then his did, leaving him relatively stronger later in the game. This is very important if you want your team to be able to win games in the 4th quarter.

As far as technique goes, I've seen a 5'6 145lb Judoka just toss a 6'4 300lb guy. A player's technique, or ability to be coached up and use better technique is very important.

As far as the height thing goes, I think with a lot of players there is a self-fulilling prophecy going on: coaches and scouts seek out guys that fit the mold and give them the most coaching, attention, and opportunity to excel, and they get better while the guys that don't fit the mold get none of that. Consequently their prejudice is reaffirmed when their mold players do well and the prejudice is seemingly confirmed.

I would have absolutely no problem with a very fast-twitch fiber Center who has texbook technique, and who can maintain all that throughout the game.

 

[Off The Grid]

The stuff you'd really need to find out is what they don't test for: muscular explosiveness and the ability to maintain it, technique, and coachability.

Seeing how a guy reps out with 225 tells you nothing about explosiveness, if you wanted to stick with bench press (bad idea) it would actually make more sense to use an incline bench, the angle of the spine in relation to the arm is closer to what happens in the game. That being said the key is the ability to accelerate their arms away from their body, to explode. I'd much rather measure how quickly they can push a sled or give them a 125lb bag of sand and see how far they can throw it.

AMAZING insight, man.

I'll tell you what I focus on with MANY positions, including all the Grizzlies: Vertical Leap and Short Shuttle. FootBall OutSiders single-handedly woke me up to the immensity of the import of those measurables. They speak to Launch...and they speak to Mercuriality and Lateral Velocity.

Then you want to see how they maintain that ability over the course of a game, people use to talk about how Herschel Walker used to get stronger as the game went on, which from a strict ATP point is impossible. What likely happened is that his opponent's strength degraded at a quicker rate then his did, leaving him relatively stronger later in the game. This is very important if you want your team to be able to win games in the 4th quarter.

As far as technique goes, I've seen a 5'6 145lb Judoka just toss a 6'4 300lb guy. A player's technique, or ability to be coached up and use better technique is very important.

As far as the height thing goes, I think with a lot of players there is a self-fulfilling prophecy going on: coaches and scouts seek out guys that fit the mold and give them the most coaching, attention, and opportunity to excel, and they get better while the guys that don't fit the mold get none of that. Consequently their prejudice is reaffirmed when their mold players do well and the prejudice is seemingly confirmed.

I would have absolutely no problem with a very fast-twitch fiber Center who has texbook technique, and who can maintain all that throughout the game.

SEVERAL great points, in an absolutely singular post, sir.

I would add ~ or argue: It's certainly vital to draw in such players, whose applicable measurables ~ and immeasurables ~ tend to dramatically outweigh the conventional nonsense, such as Bench Press and "40"...But when it comes down to the Play Offs, I don't want overachievers in my Trenches...I want BEASTS. Dominant BEASTS.

I'm not sure if this even diverges with your philosophy: But I felt it was worth noting, in the context.

GREAT points about self fulfilling prophecies, and the foolish notion that RB's actually get stronger as the game wears on.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I would add ~ or argue: It's certainly vital to draw in such players, whose applicable measurables ~ and immeasurables ~ tend to dramatically outweigh the conventional nonsense, such as Bench Press and "40"...But when it comes down to the Play Offs, I don't want overachievers in my Trenches...I want BEASTS. Dominant BEASTS.

I'm not sure if this even diverges with your philosophy: But I felt it was worth noting, in the context.

GREAT points about self fulfilling prophecies, and the foolish notion that RB's actually get stronger as the game wears on.

I don't think it conflicts with my philosophy at all, I believe the stuff I value gives us better insight to what actually makes a player a beast. Unfortunately a lot of the paradigms that exist within the sports world get in the way of better evaluation and ultimately hurt the game.

I would think that with the amount of money spent on players you'd see owners putting a lot more thought into why many 1st rounders become busts and why you also see undrafted FAs become Pro-Bowlers, their current evaulation process has some holes in it.

 

[Off The Grid]

I would add ~ or argue: It's certainly vital to draw in such players, whose applicable measurables ~ and immeasurables ~ tend to dramatically outweigh the conventional nonsense, such as Bench Press and "40"...But when it comes down to the Play Offs, I don't want overachievers in my Trenches...I want BEASTS. Dominant BEASTS.

I'm not sure if this even diverges with your philosophy: But I felt it was worth noting, in the context.

GREAT points about self fulfilling prophecies, and the foolish notion that RB's actually get stronger as the game wears on.

I don't think it conflicts with my philosophy at all, I believe the stuff I value gives us better insight to what actually makes a player a beast.

Unfortunately a lot of the paradigms that exist within the sports world get in the way of better evaluation and ultimately hurt the game.

I would think that with the amount of money spent on players you'd see owners putting a lot more thought into why many 1st rounders become busts and why you also see undrafted FAs become Pro-Bowlers, their current evaulation process has some holes in it.

Excellent follow through, and I agree. I would love to see a restructuring of the Combine with a spirit towards evaluating the elements you've referred to in post #9:

~ Muscular Explosiveness ( my current term is "Launch")
~ Sustained Muscular Explosiveness
~ Technique
~ Coachability

The closest test we have for the first two, I believe, is the Vertical Jump, but I'd love to see additional tests. The Incline Press is a very refreshing idea, and the Sled Push would be an exceptionally good idea...No reason not to include the Bag Toss, either.

I'd also like to see a mental test that completely focuses not on overall intelligence, like the Wonderlic does, but, rather, exclusively on Processing Speed.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Excellent follow through, and I agree. I would love to see a restructuring of the Combine with a spirit towards evaluating the elements you've referred to in post #9:

~ Muscular Explosiveness ( my current term is "Launch")
~ Sustained Muscular Explosiveness
~ Technique
~ Coachability

The closest test we have for the first two, I believe, is the Vertical Jump, but I'd love to see additional tests. The Incline Press is a very refreshing idea, and the Sled Push would be an exceptionally good idea...No reason not to include the Bag Toss, either.

I'd also like to see a mental test that completely focuses not on overall intelligence, like the Wonderlic does, but, rather, exclusively on Processing Speed.

Oh no, Brother, we want the combine to stay exactly as it is, in fact I think they should even add an aesthetics component, I mean if a player looks like a Greek God they'll play better, right? The Patriots internal evaluation process is another matter though but I actually have no idea how they evaluate players right now.

I have a ton of other ideas on testing/evaluating but I don't want to make them public on the chance that the info makes it's way to other teams, I just need to stalk Bob Kraft, feed him a dozen martinis, and explain my ideas.

Football IQ and processing speed are vital, and I even have some ideas on testing them but it's not as fleshed out as what I have in mind for physical testing.

Also, check your PM.

 

[Off The Grid]

Excellent follow through, and I agree. I would love to see a restructuring of the Combine with a spirit towards evaluating the elements you've referred to in post #9:

~ Muscular Explosiveness ( my current term is "Launch")
~ Sustained Muscular Explosiveness
~ Technique
~ Coachability

The closest test we have for the first two, I believe, is the Vertical Jump, but I'd love to see additional tests. The Incline Press is a very refreshing idea, and the Sled Push would be an exceptionally good idea...No reason not to include the Bag Toss, either.

I'd also like to see a mental test that completely focuses not on overall intelligence, like the Wonderlic does, but, rather, exclusively on Processing Speed.

Oh no, Brother, we want the combine to stay exactly as it is, in fact I think they should even add an aesthetics component, I mean if a player looks like a Greek God they'll play better, right? The Patriots internal evaluation process is another matter though but I actually have no idea how they evaluate players right now.

I have a ton of other ideas on testing/evaluating but I don't want to make them public on the chance that the info makes it's way to other teams, I just need to stalk Bob Kraft, feed him a dozen martinis, and explain my ideas.

Football IQ and processing speed are vital, and I even have some ideas on testing them but it's not as fleshed out as what I have in mind for physical testing.

Also, check your PM.

Hah!! Great stuff, Bro.

The funny thing is: There's some truth to it. One thing I learned a LONG time ago is that Startling Insight can come from anywhere.

If I were running the Patriots, I would make a point of trolling the Internet for Fresh Ideas.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Hah!! Great stuff, Bro.

The funny thing is: There's some truth to it. One thing I learned a LONG time ago is that Startling Insight can come from anywhere.

If I were running the Patriots, I would make a point of trolling the Internet for Fresh Ideas.

While I agree with you 100% I think the sports world is likely far more dogmatic. Check this out if you havent seen it already.

The numbers show that NFL coaches should go for it more - ESPN The Magazine

Even a good friend of mine, who is a athletic trainer and works with several professional athletes, was passionately arguing with me about "the vital importance" of the 40 time for NFL athletes, and when I subsequently dismantled all of his arguments he threw his hands up in the air and said "the coaches that hire me to train their guys want 40 times so that's what I give them". Even though I'm not a huge fan of the 40 it would make a lot more sense to have them run it in pads and a helmet, just like they would on the field, as opposed to their underwear.

 

[Off The Grid]

Excellent follow through, and I agree. I would love to see a restructuring of the Combine with a spirit towards evaluating the elements you've referred to in post #9:

~ Muscular Explosiveness ( my current term is "Launch")
~ Sustained Muscular Explosiveness
~ Technique
~ Coachability

The closest test we have for the first two, I believe, is the Vertical Jump, but I'd love to see additional tests. The Incline Press is a very refreshing idea, and the Sled Push would be an exceptionally good idea...No reason not to include the Bag Toss, either.

I'd also like to see a mental test that completely focuses not on overall intelligence, like the Wonderlic does, but, rather, exclusively on Processing Speed.

Oh no, Brother, we want the combine to stay exactly as it is, in fact I think they should even add an aesthetics component, I mean if a player looks like a Greek God they'll play better, right? The Patriots internal evaluation process is another matter though but I actually have no idea how they evaluate players right now.

I have a ton of other ideas on testing/evaluating but I don't want to make them public on the chance that the info makes it's way to other teams, I just need to stalk Bob Kraft, feed him a dozen martinis, and explain my ideas.

Football IQ and processing speed are vital, and I even have some ideas on testing them but it's not as fleshed out as what I have in mind for physical testing.

Also, check your PM.

Hah!! Great stuff, Bro.

The funny thing is: There's some truth to it. One thing I learned a LONG time ago is that Startling Insight can come from anywhere.

If I were running the Patriots, I would make a point of trolling the Internet for Fresh Ideas.

While I agree with you 100% I think the sports world is likely far more dogmatic. Check this out if you havent seen it already.

The numbers show that NFL coaches should go for it more - ESPN The Magazine

Even a good friend of mine, who is a athletic trainer and works with several professional athletes, was passionately arguing with me about "the vital importance" of the 40 time for NFL athletes, and when I subsequently dismantled all of his arguments he threw his hands up in the air and said "the coaches that hire me to train their guys want 40 times so that's what I give them". Even though I'm not a huge fan of the 40 it would make a lot more sense to have them run it in pads and a helmet, just like they would on the field, as opposed to their underwear.

Heh! Yeah, you'll get no argument from ME: Even Wise Ones like Coach Bill ~ who is LIGHT YEARS ahead of virtually ALL his peers ~ must struggle with the comforting allure of Conventional Thinking.

Yeah, I've glanced over that article before, but didn't bother reading it: The Truths contained therein are self-evident. I'll probably check it out, now, though, as I'm easily amused by the shocking ignorance of Conventional Thinking.

And of course I ultimately have NO objection to the "40" retaining its exalted position in perpetuity: LET the Sheep work themselves into a lather, chasing RB's, WR's, CB's, MidFielders, and Flankers with heart-stopping "40" times, and QB's with Golden Arms...And WE'LL just keep drafting FOOTBALL PLAYERS.

 

[Off The Grid]

Needless to say, there is a LOT of overlap, between Centers and Guards.

I'll be rolling out some Guards, tonight.

 

[Peachhead]

Needless to say, there is a LOT of overlap, between Centers and Guards.

I'll be rolling out some Guards, tonight.

Personally I prefer to only draft decent Centers for the interior O-line. Even if we intend to use them at OG. Logic tells me a Center is basically a more talented Guard. I'm sure it's an oversimplification, but:

OGs and OCs often have to block similar opponents, but OCs have to snap the ball first, then block. They make the line calls too. Both things Guards don't have to do.

What do Guards do that Centers don't? Pull sometimes? Get to the second level and take on LBs? Good Centers for our scheme have plenty good mobility.

And even if we turn OCs into Guards, they can play Center in a pinch. Something a college OG playing OG in the pros may not be so good at.

 

[Off The Grid]

Personally I prefer to only draft decent Centers for the interior O-line.

Even if we intend to use them at OG. Logic tells me a Center is basically a more talented Guard. I'm sure it's an oversimplification, but:

OGs and OCs often have to block similar opponents, but OCs have to snap the ball first, then block. They make the line calls too. Both things Guards don't have to do.

What do Guards do that Centers don't? Pull sometimes? Get to the second level and take on LBs? Good Centers for our scheme have plenty good mobility.

And even if we turn OCs into Guards, they can play Center in a pinch. Something a college OG playing OG in the pros may not be so good at.

That is pretty brilliant thinking, Bro.

 

[Off The Grid]

I probably won't finish the Guards until tomorrow morning: I guess it's cloudy outside, because the Net's coming a little sluggishly, right now...And I tend to embrace my Inner Slacker on Sunday Nights, anyway.