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Greg Hardy

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by BillBelichickFan79, Jan 4, 2010.

  1. BillBelichickFan79

    BillBelichickFan79 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Greg Hardy has been my favorite candidate for us at OLB and still is even though he's been troubled with injuries. Hardy has the pure pass rushing ability all of us are looking for, along with the strength/power to get get off blockers.

    He's a pretty good athlete who I think can make plays out in space, and is solid vs both the run and pass. You have to love his pure explosive pass rushing ability and his ability to bull rush or use some of his moves like his spin move. If this guy falls due to medical concerns, I would definitely love to add him. I think he'd be a force in our defense.

    For those of us wanting to add Peppers, we might be able to add a guy comparable to him via the draft for a much more cost-effective price.

    CBS Scouting Report - Greg Hardy


    Overview

    Blessed with a combination of size, strength and overall athleticism that has drawn comparisons to Julius Peppers and Mario Williams, Hardy appears capable of putting together a senior campaign that results in his being the first overall pick of the 2010 NFL Draft.

    Unfortunately, Hardy has battled inconsistency and injury throughout his collegiate career. He didn't start a game in 2008 due to his struggles following surgery on the fifth metatarsal of his left foot in the offseason and was hampered by the injury again this spring.

    When healthy, however, Hardy is a dominant force, as demonstrated by the 64 tackles, 18.5 tackles for loss and 10 sacks he posted in only 10 games his junior season. Hardy's ability to collapse the pocket (21.5 sacks and 7 forced fumbles over his career) is certainly intriguing, but to warrant high-round consideration, Hardy will have to do something he's never done before - make it through a full season without injury.


    Analysis

    Pass rush: Good, not great quickness off the ball, but accelerates quickly and can explode past the tackle off the edge. Very good use of hands to ward off the tackle's block. Slaps away opponents' hands quickly with good hand placement and underrated upper-body strength. Strength shows up with a good bull rush. Can drive the tackle into the quarterback. Has a tendency to get his sacks in bunches and disappear for long stretches.

    Run defense: Good lateral agility to beat the tackle outside and force the sweep wide. Good strength and use of leverage to control the tackle. Feels the cut block coming and sprawls effectively to protect his legs and maintain his balance. Good effort and closing speed behind the line of scrimmage. Showed good effort in pursuit downfield in 2007, but struggled in this area in 2008 (possibly due to recurring foot injuries).

    Explosion: Good, not great initial burst off the snap. Lacked the burst he had shown in previous years and struggled to re-direct in 2008. Flashes explosive hitting ability, especially when given space to gain momentum.

    Strength: A vastly underrated component of Hardy's effectiveness as a pass rusher. Good upper-body strength to disengage from the pass blocker. Good strength for the bull rush. Good leverage and leg drive to anchor when necessary.

    Tackling: Rangy defender who can break down in space and make the secure tackle. Good strength to make the one-armed drag-down tackle when occupied with a blocker. Inconsistent effort in pursuit downfield in 2008.

    Intangibles: Rare athleticism for the position. Actually used as a wide receiver early in his career and has three receiving touchdowns as a Rebel. Struggled with a foot injury in 2008 and was only used as part of a rotation. Will require an extensive medical check at the Combine. Has undergone two separate surgeries on his right foot for stress fractures, the second of which required a screw be placed in his foot for stabilization. The injury was aggravated by an automobile accident suffered on July 11, 2009, though Hardy was cleared for football by team doctors shortly thereafter.

    NFL Comparison: Julius Peppers, Carolina Panthers
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2010
  2. Marqui

    Marqui In the Starting Line-Up

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    I hope we draft him too. He's maybe not 1st round prospect at this point though.
     
  3. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'd be fine with Hardy with one of our 2nd round picks. I'd rate him and Greg Romeus, and possibly Jason Pierre-Paul, as my favorite guys to take with the Jacksonville pick. I don't think I'd take him at #24-25 though - I'd trade back him there was no better value on the board. His injury history and other issues are enough to drop him to the 2nd round for me, at least at this point.
     
  4. BillBelichickFan79

    BillBelichickFan79 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Yup I love all 3 of these guys but want Hardy the most. He was one of the most exciting players to watch on the defensive side of the ball throughout his career at Ole Miss.

    Hopefully he can shake the injury bug because this guy has the talent to be a star. If he didn't get hurt, I think he would've gone top 15. Just hearing him being compared to Peppers and Williams gives me the chills.
     
  5. The Intimidator

    The Intimidator On the Game Day Roster

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    He's projected by many to go in the top 20, which means that the Pats would have to try to trade up. I think this kid will be an absolute stud. He's 6-5, 265 pounds, and has apparently been clocked at 4.67 seconds in the 40 yard dash. Now, he has some injury problems, but I honestly think he could be worth the risk. He's probably the best DE coming out this April.

    If the Pats are looking to stick with the 3-4 next season, they could target someone like Cameron Heyward from Ohio State. He's 6-6, 285 pounds, and he's a great fit as a DE in a 3-4 system. According to most mocks, he could be had in the second round, which would allow the Pats to use their first rounder on the best available player, whoever that may be. Other fits at DE in the 3-4 system could be Allen Bailey from Miami and Jake Odrick from Penn State. They are also players who could be available in the second round.
     
  6. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Projections on Greg Hardy vary wildly from top 20 to end of the 2nd round. He's still a wild card as to where he goes in the draft.

    I think Cameron Heyward is a fabulous 3-4 DE prospect. He's on the fence as to whether or not to come out, and many people are predicting that he will be a top 20 pick. I think 2nd round is very generous.

    Allen Bailey has announced that he will be returning to Miami next year.
     
  7. BillBelichickFan79

    BillBelichickFan79 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I think Hardy is worth the risk in round 1, and I hope BB feels the same way. Has the size, speed, power, and skill set I've been looking for in an OLB for a while. He can just take over and dominate a game at anytime.
     
  8. BradyMossWelker

    BradyMossWelker Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    My favourite outside linebacker s jerry hughes, I think he will be our first pick, unless someone real talented falls into the 25th, like taylor mays or dunlap, mclain.
    I like Greg Hardy, but like Mayo, as a 2nd rounder, but I prefer him to greg romeus
     
  9. BillBelichickFan79

    BillBelichickFan79 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    haven't seen enough of Hughes this year, gotta take a look at him tonight. I like Hardy the best, but I also like Dunlap, Romeus, Pierre-Paul, and even Ricky Sapp and Sergio Kindle.

    If I could only have one though I would take Hardy, even with his injury history.
     
  10. carolinatony

    carolinatony In the Starting Line-Up

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    I would love for us to take Greg Hardy,Greg Romeus, Jason Pierre-Paul or Hughes. Wouldn't it be nice to grab 2 of these guys!

    Throw in Mike Johnson OG Alabama and thats a very good draft.
     
  11. Marqui

    Marqui In the Starting Line-Up

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    I'm surprised so many of you guys are already sold on Pierre-Paul. He has a ton of potential but is extremely raw right now. Seems like a 3rd rounder to me. If you want to draft for pure potential early, I'd rather go with Austen Lane.
     
  12. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'd rather go with Austen Lane over Jason Pierre-Paul, too. Lane seems to be able to control his frame and play with balance, whereas JPP appears gangly and seems to have trouble controlling his body. He's often off balance, and plays slower than his times speed would suggest. He may learn how to manage those things in time, but I have much more confidence that Lane has the agility and coordination to play in space.

    I'd love to pick up Lane as a weakside DE/OLB in the late 2nd round, and get a strongside guy earlier such as Carlos Dunlap, Greg Romeus, or Greg Hardy (probably in that order, though it's close between the 3 of them).
     
  13. carolinatony

    carolinatony In the Starting Line-Up

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    I would be happy with Lane. The reason I mentioned Pierre-Paul is that he has been compaired to Julius Peppers who some on this board really want us to go after. He would cost a bit less than 17 mil a year.
     
  14. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Practically everybody with freakish athleticism at DE has been compared with Julius Peppers. The OP for this thread compares Greg Hardy with Julius Peppers. Carlos Dunlap is the college DE most commonly compared with Julius Peppers. North Carolina sophomore Robert Quinn, who broke most of Pepper's school records for DE's in agility drills, is also often compared with him.

    Other than having freakish athletic ability and playing DE, I don't see much comparison between JPP and Julius Peppers. I'd compare Pierre-Paul more with Javon Kearse - a tall, lanky DE with fabulous pursuit speed who can run down players from across the field, and who can alter passing plays with his long arms.
     
  15. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For those on the Jason Pierre-Paul bandwagon, I think the downside to JPP is Jarvis Moss. Moss was another guy with 6'6" length and fantastic speed and agility for a guy his size, but he just wasn't strong enough and didn't have enough moves to make it. He looked awfully enticing as a prospect in 2007 and went #17 to Denver, and has done nothing since at either DE or 3-4 OLB.
     
  16. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #24 Jersey

    Greg Hardy is fantastic my draft board this year is filled and i mean filled with excellent system players.
     
  17. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I just got done watching the Cotton Bowl recording. Even assuming Oklahoma State game planned around him, he was unimpressive. He'll probably be an All-Pro, but his injury history and my one look at him doesn't encourage me to expect NE to be strongly interested.
     
  18. BillBelichickFan79

    BillBelichickFan79 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I got the feeling that he wasn't back to full strength yet when I watched that game. I think he just wanted to come back and play one last bowl game with his team.

    Do you think his injury history would really discourage NE being very interested? I mean Harvin had a lot of flags about not being able to stay on the field, but we were supposedly very interested in him. We also drafted a guy with a torn up knee in Tate. Vollmer also had some back issues if I'm not mistaken.

    I don't know; I get the feeling that if BB sees the talent there, he will go for it. I can't see not taking such a great talent because he might get hurt again. Yes a guy like Chung played like 50 games for Oregon and showed he was extremely durable, but his career could be over tomorrow if some fluke injury happens at practice.
     
  19. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Depends on the history and where he falls in the draft.

    Mayo: "Started 26 of 32 games at Tennessee, playing for three seasons from 2005-07 after redshirting in 2004"

    Meriweather: "Started 21 games at strong safety, six at free safety, two at right cornerback, one at left cornerback and one at nickel back during his career."

    Maroney: "2005 - participated in 563 plays; 2004 - participated in 457 plays; 2003 - participated in 507 plays."

    Mankins: "Three-year starter awarded All-Conference and All-America honors as a senior. Missed the 2003 season after tearing his right knee."

    There's the last four first round picks, you'll note the only one with an injury history of any note is Mankins and his is a fairly common injury, from which he came back and won All-American honors his final year. You've already noted Chung's history as the highest drafted player last year. Hardy's injury history is substantially different.

    So at what point does BB roll the dice? Tate was the third round. Terrence Wheatley was second round at #62. O'Callaghan was the 5th round.

    Of the past three draft picks with substantial injury histories in college, the highest drafted went at the end of the second round. All three wound up missing time their rookie seasons. The two highest drafted both went on IR as rookies. History says Greg Hardy is a high risk prospect - I expect BB to put a draft grade on him that's lower than many other teams because it will include playing time. It is what it is. :confused2:
     
  20. BillBelichickFan79

    BillBelichickFan79 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Those are valid points, but you also have to remember all of those first round picks you are speaking of were picks both he AND Pioli made together. I remember in Patriot Reign it said that they wouldn't draft a player unless they both agreed on him.

    A lot of people on this board, as well as myself, feel that BB was the more aggressive risk taker and Pioli was the conservative and calm guy who balanced things out. Even though Belichick pretty much had the final say before-hand, I think now with Pioli gone, we will see risks more frequently.

    Take a look at how Belichick operated this offseason, his first without Pioli. He quickly signed Bodden, Taylor, Baker, Galloway and Springs. Also signed McGowan and Paris Lenon. He traded Cassel and Vrable. Traded for and then cut Greg Lewis. Traded for Derrick Burgess. Traded LeKevin Smith and Russ Hochstein to Denver. Traded Seymour to Oakland days before the season started. Traded for and cut Alex Smith. Traded for Michael Matthews before eventually cutting him a few weeks into the season. Traded David Thomas. Traded for Prescott Burgess in the middle of the season and then cut him a week later. Traded Ellis Hobbs. Also moved around A LOT during the draft.

    That's a crazy offseason with an absurd amount of trades when you look at it a second time. Took some big risks, one being trading Seymour and Vrable, two vet leaders on this team.
     

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