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Great tax Idea

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Jul 24, 2008.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    From a conservative board a great approach to taxes IMO.

    Wish I could take credit for this.



    If we all had to write the check to the guv, there would be a tax revolt and a spending revolt.
  2. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    I still think my tax idea would be the most fair to all Americans. Tax everything except for food, medicine and clothing. There could be different tax rates say on buying a house vs buying smaller items such as tools for instance.

    The rich would surely pay more taxes than the poor ... unless of course if they chose to live like the average income or below average income American. They would pay more taxes because they consume more in terms of products and services.

    They vacation more, buy more houses, more cars ... being more wealty usually (not always) means more spending.

    People could earn tax rebates every spring ... like they do now for things like education expenses, donations and energy friendly purchases.

    Much too much to put in a few paragraphs ... but IMO a consumer tax is the fairest way of all to pay dreaded taxes.
  3. DarrylS

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    This along with the Steve Forbes idea might be a good idea, all deductions should be eliminated.. everyone pays their share... collaterally the whole IRS should be scrapped and downsized, this is a huge waste of taxpayer money and only exists because of the amount of laws written.. subsequent regulations.
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    MY LORD WILL IT EVER GET BETTER

    The next time you hear a politician use the
    word 'billion' in a casual manner, think about
    whether you want the 'politicians' spending
    YOUR tax money.

    A billion is a difficult number to comprehend,
    but one advertising agency did a good job of
    putting that figure into some perspective in
    one of its releases.

    A.
    A billion seconds ago it was 1959.

    B.
    A billion minutes ago Jesus was alive.

    C.
    A billion hours ago our ancestors were
    living in the Stone Age.

    D.
    A billion days ago no one walked on the earth on two feet.

    E.
    A billion dollars ago was only
    8 hours and 20 minutes,
    at the rate our government
    is spending it.

    While this thought is still fresh in our brain...
    let's take a look at New Orleans ...
    It's amazing what you can learn with some simple division.

    Louisiana Senator,
    Mary Landrieu (D)
    is presently asking Congress for
    250 BILLION DOLLARS
    to rebuild New Orleans. Interesting number...
    what does it mean?

    A.
    Well. If you are one of the 484,674 residents of New Orleans
    (every man, woman, and child)
    you each get $516,528.

    B.
    Or... if you have one of the 188,251 homes in
    New Orleans, your home gets $1,329,787.

    C.
    Or... if you are a family of four...
    your family gets $2,066,012.

    Washington, D. C

    < HELLO! >
    Are all your calculators broken??

    Accounts Receivable Tax
    Building Permit Tax
    CDL License Tax
    Cigarette Tax
    Corporate Income Tax
    Dog License Tax
    Federal Income Tax Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
    Fishing License Tax
    Food License Tax
    Fuel Permit Tax
    Gasoline Tax
    Hunting License Tax
    Inheritance Tax
    Inventory Tax
    IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
    IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
    Liquor Tax
    Luxury Tax
    Marriage License Tax
    Medicare Tax
    Property Tax
    Real Estate Tax
    Service charge taxes
    Social Security Tax
    Road Usage Tax (Truckers)
    Sales Taxes
    Recreational Vehicle Tax
    School Tax
    State Income Tax
    State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
    Telephone Federal Excise Tax
    Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
    Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Tax
    Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
    Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax
    Telephone State and Local Tax
    Telephone Usage Charge Tax
    Utility Tax
    Vehicle License Registration Tax
    Vehicle Sales Tax
    Watercraft Registration Tax
    Well Permit Tax
    Workers Compensation Tax

    STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?

    Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago...
    and our nation was the most prosperous in the world.

    We had absolutely no national debt...
    We had the largest middle class in the world...

    Mom stayed home to raise the kids.
    What happened?

    Politicians

    WHEN YOU VOTE....
    VOTE FOR POLITICIANS WHO SUPPORT SMALLER GOVERNMENT
    99@ of America's politicians should be burned at the stake.

    F-ck Obama
    F-ck McCain
  5. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    I'd actually love to see a Government Spending Idea.
  6. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    I already gave one. Eliminate all government spending other than that which is strictly a national issue. Pass everything to the states. The feds pay for nothing but defense, interstate highways, etc. My state of CA gets nothing from the feds. Same for MA and all others. Even with the massive defense spending this probably balances the budget or gives us a surplus - admittedly the issue of how much defense spending there should be remains.

    Anyway, then the states are left to fend for themselves - if they really want something they can pay for it - state taxes would, of course, go up but I bet states would spend a lot less when they're footing the bill.

    I'm good with eliminating the IRS. I'm a little concerned, as usual, about your class warfare "everyone pays his share" statement.

    Again (a couple of years old as tax data always is but it's barely changed) :

    The bottom 50% paid 2.9% of the Federal Income Tax yet made 12.5% in the Income.

    http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/250.html
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2008
  7. DarrylS

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    Not sure about the class warfare comment, my concern is about those who because of the tax loopholes those who pay minimal taxes or no tax at all... the big corporations who avoid taxes.. everyone paying their share is a generalized comment used in the context that avoiding loopholes is a good thing.
  8. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Well the numbers say that the rich pay by far most of the taxes. There may be a few who get away with something, and I'd like that stopped, but in general the rich pay the income tax and the poor don't. Maybe it has to be that way but I wish people would state it as such as opposed to "the rich don't pay their fair share" because clearly they do.
  9. DarrylS

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    Not intimated at all... no contention about the rich, just those who do not pay at all because of tax loopholes..

    consider this:

    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Story?id=5058692

    Death is inevitable, but federal income taxes aren't for an increased number of high-income earners.

    More PhotosNew IRS statistics show 7,389 federal tax returns with $200,000 or more in adjusted gross income reported no federal income taxes in 2005. That's a 161% jump from the 2,833 comparable returns filed in 2004.

    Additionally, 4,224 of the over-$200,000 earners reported no worldwide income tax liability on their 2005 returns, the IRS data show. That represents a 75% increase from the 2,420 comparable returns filed in 2004.

    The data are the most recent available from the IRS. It shows a rising number of high-income earners have avoided the alternative minimum tax, which was intended to ensure that tax shelters, deductions and loopholes wouldn't exempt wealthy Americans from paying at least some federal income tax.
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The government must provide for public education, health care, help for the truly needy, defense, protection of our air and water, a court system, the military, interstate highways, infrastructure services for rural areas (which can't alone afford them), emergency aid, foreign aid as appropriate, R&D in select areas, promotion of foreign trade, veterans benefits, maintenance of our national heritage such as national parks and the Smithsonian, etc. Those things cost more than most people can afford, so the the wealthier people simply have to pay more. Their class warfare against the poor and middle class will have to end. They profit disproportionately from OUR nation, and thus should pay disproportionately until all our needs are met. If you want to help the wealthy, send them some money. They like money a lot, and I'm sure they'll appreciate whatever help you can provide.
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2008
  11. PatsFanInVa

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    No, no no, what we need is a No Child Left Alive initiative. So much cheaper!

    God, you guys with your "taxes are killing meeeeeeee" mantra. We're less taxed than the majority of our peers in industrialized nations. We're behind them in infant mortality, health care in general, life expectancy, and education. Beyond the usually quoted facts about income disparity (the rich do, in fact, skate; the gap between rich and poor is, in fact, growing rather than shrinking,) you can just look around at what your salary buys, if you're of a certain age.

    How many hours did you have to work to buy a tank of gas or a bag of groceries in 1970? Miniscule as that time increment was for a CEO, it's now much shorter, as pay at the top of the ladder has exploded, and yours and mine has declined.

    There's a reason for this. At the top there is an utter vacuum of accountability, and an ability to sell a "skills bubble" to shareholders, just as the same people sell realty or dot com bubbles to investors, and sell right wing working class guys a belief that they're all being victimized by other races and ethnicities.

    Oh just to be really funny, by the way, you know that social security tax that amounts to another hefty 6.5% of every dime you make? The well-off don't pay it. It stops at 102,500.

    Keep believing the wealthy are not parasitic. Keep around the floppy shoes and oversized red rubber nose too.

    No, you're not being taxed to death. You got a kid that needs a school? You got highways that go to and from your house, or as will soon become much more pertinent again, do you have railways that run through your town? How about trash collectors and cops? Heaven forbid you ever collect unemployment. But have you ever known someone who had to - and for whom it was necessary?

    We've squeezed wherever we could on the social programs. We're also at the point, of course, where the (to my lights insufferable) baby boomers are about to ride off into the retirement communities... all on the backs of their children, whom they outnumber nearly 2-1.

    This should be entertaining, as the strip mall developers and real estate kings and investment bankers and internet sub-moguls fade from the scene, and, exercising their infamous lack of community spirit, start waving "gray power" signs to protest means-testing social security (for instance.)

    I'm not for it, of course. I'm just saying. I see this sh** coming.
  12. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    I bolded the ones I agree with - the states can, and should, do the rest.
  13. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    how much of your dollar do you get to keep?

    first they take out taxes before you get your paycheck. then you go to spend it and you get hit up with a million taxes.

    if i want a car i need to pay sales tax, then excise tax, then i need to pay for an inspection sticker, then registration, then i go fill it up and i pay state and federal gas taxes. and now in some cases if i use a credit card to buy the gas it is more expensive than cash. then i have to pay insurance and the insurance company hits you up with a processing fee. then i i want to drive on high ways or go to other states or go through tunnel or bridges I need to pay tolls.

    not all of these are state or federal taxes but really at the end of the day how much of your dollar do you actually keep?
  14. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Plus we're double taxes on a bunch of taxes. Sales tax is the second time that money has been taxed because it's on my take home pay. Same with capital gains and dividends - my investment money has already been taxed before I get it to invest.
  15. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    I get a kick out of if you want to restore a car you pay sales tax on all the parts, then if you want to sell it you need to pay capital gains? am i wrong? or would it be covered under hobby expenses?
  16. PatsFanInVa

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    It's worse now than ever. Except all the times before now.

    Here's a list of the highest marginal rates going back to 1913, together with where the highest rate kicked in for that year:

    http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php

    As the site explains, a marginal rate means what you pay on income OVER a certain amount. Two things are clear from the table: Having a high tax on incredibly high income (note - not on the income prior to reaching that level) - has been the norm in America for the last century. Making that a low tax rate is the aberration. One can consider that "fair" or "right." One can embrace the Reagan/Gingrich "revolution" and the "tax revolt" of the 80s, representing the moment when the baby boom completed its reinvention from inhalers to investers. But one should recognize that the beloved "lifestyle" the Reagan/Gingrich camp harkened back to did not include a low tax rate. It included what the Reagan/Gingriches of the world would consider socialistic rates of taxation (along with a bunch of far more pernicious and evil institutions.)

    Yes, Ward Cleaver probably paid much more in income tax than Merideth Baxter watzername in Family Ties.

    The constant droning whine of "I'm being taxed to death" has been very popular in the years during which taxes have been lowest (and yes, the rest of the tax tables have also declined since the 50s and 60s, markedly.)

    We're taxed less than Europeans, the closest analogs that there are to Americans in terms of lifestyle.

    We're taxed less than we use to be.

    We've continually cut our social services to match our smaller tax burden.

    And meanwhile, our economy is NOT going like gangbusters because "Wahhhh cut my taxes!" cures everything. It doesn't. It just allows the inevitable concentration of wealth and concommitant widening of the gap between rich and poor.

    And the lemmings continue with the mantra, wahhhhhhh my taxes are too high.

    Here's a great tax idea: I don't care if it's on retail or income, if it's simple or complicated. The idea is, stop borrowing from your freaking children and grandchildren, while simultaneously sending them to die or be maimed far from home for no apparent reason or positive outcome.

    PFnV
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2008
  17. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    I think people are annoyed and complaining about taxes primarily because of governments uncontrollable spending. They are blaming government for the mess we are in now with the economy. You could double taxes and we'd still have an unbalanced budget because of the decisions federal and state government has made.

    People are seeing their taxes go to other countries, for bailouts of poorly operated banks and in the meantime oil prices stay high and social security has many question marks.

    And government is contemplating incorporating more taxes to siphon more money from the people instead of controlling the spending.

    I think people have lost confidence in government and see politicians as having their own agenda with the wealthy. Bush made his money in oil. Bill Clinton gets a pretty paycheck on the speaking circuit. I think people believe that government hasn't helped out the little man with rising fuel prices and we'll see about heat this winter.
  18. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    totally agree on the bolded parts
  19. DarrylS

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    Could not agree more, my issue with taxes is not only the inequity of how they are paid...but more so how the money is spent.. and how the pols play the game. Now we are bailing out banks that have made huge mistakes in their lending and backing up mortgages for people who do not deserve mortgages. Coupled with the waste and fraud in Iraq.. it goes on and on and on and on. It filters down to a state level, a governor postures and tries to balance the budget on the backs of secretaries and janitors, but then goes around and makes poor choices on how the big bucks are spent. The rotten bastards should all be voted out..
  20. PatsFanInVa

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    What cracks me up about the bailouts going on right now is that it's pretty much pure corporate welfare, but combined with a "public welfare" bit.

    So, I really need fewer foreclosures around me, or my property values dive further.

    Ergo, that jackass that got a 2% better rate than me by getting the exploding ARM? I take out a totally different loan to lock in my 30 year mortgage, right? I pay through the nose because they've artificially stoked up demand, by increasing the pool of buyers, right? I pay a ton of my salary on housing costs, because I decide to buy in right at that moment... and....

    I HAVE to support the bailout of the less forward thinking borrower.

    Why? Because if he goes under, Adam Smith might be delighted, but I lose X tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars. So even though I wouldn't receive the public part of this welfare package, I know that the reverberations will affect me -- in a relatively comfortable rung of the middle class, mind you -- in a very real, very thorough way.

    The "too big to fail" excuse -- whether it be airlines, Fannie/Freddie, Bear Sterns, or other entities -- may be unfair. But they have similar reverberations going the other way (top down to the middle class, rather than bottom up to the middle class.)

    Sure Fannie and Freddie are big. Sure it's unfair that the "Full Faith and Credit" is being applied in the lean times, while laissez faire and big bonuses apply in good times. But do we really want to add to the few more years' recovery time of the realty markets, at minimum?

    Well, that will go by how long you've owned your home. Me? I am conscious of my property value, and do not want it cut in half over the next few years, in order to teach some of my neighbors a lesson.

    Demand for housing is low to nil. There's still the inventory of new homes to go through, in addition to millions of foreclosed properties. After that there will be the upgraders, moving from property to property, and then finally new buyers will return. We're talking years, minimum, before supply and demand can BEGIN to recoup, in any real way.

    That's how you and I end up on the hook regardless of which corporate bailout we talk about. It seems to me that we have to end up talking details at this point, because we set up these incredible problems during various bubbles. We have a habit of doing so. Part of it is that we tolerate incredible irresponsibility at the height of economic good times, with the repeated and always wrong promise that "this time it's different."

    Someone is always telling us that the latest bubble is not a bubble, that there's been a fundamental shift in how things work, etc. etc. etc.

    It's DURING the bubble that you can stop the bailout, by insisting that we do boring things like preventing predatory lending (as an example.)

    It's always a sort of "hangover" phase when we come up with these brilliant solutions like "hey since the market, left to its own devices, will become an economic basket case, let's make sure the big guys don't go under!!!"

    It's in the middle of the corporate exuberance when we say "Oh you can't interfere with lending practices, accounting irregularities, etc., because it's just letting the market work!"

    PFnV

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