Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Run DMC, Nov 19, 2008.
I am never one to freak out over doomsday scenarios, but I think this is going to be really, really bad. Much worse than people think. The ripple effect will produce something between a deep recession and an all out depression IMO.
Change You Can Believe In is coming.
what does that have to do with it? Obama has absolutely nothing to do with this.
Without discussing his past involvement . . . you are talking about what's upcoming and he'll be the President. Change we can believe in, baby.
Ok, I get it, you don't really understand much. Seriously, do you realize how childish that is?
With guys like Paul Volker advising him, I see Obama being far more conservative with gov't spending than many think. If not for nothing, it will be interesting.
After watching him on 60 minutes, I am more than impressed with his political savvy.
And you have no sense of humor.
I think we're all a little nervous and this time is a bit different but the vast number of experts I've read or seen think this scenario is unlikely. They could be wrong.
ok if you were joking I apologize. It's just annoying that I feel like I can see this thing coming and I know they are going to try and pin it on Obama which is beyond ludicrous.
Getting back to the "experts," they were wrong before and I feel they'll be wrong now, especially since they have even more conflict of interest than the MMGW scientists you dislike.
Just take a step back and think about all of the industry that has been built over the last 10-20 years based on this artificial, unsustainable level of consumerism. Travel, electronics, homes, cars etc. everything is going to contract. Even the people that could previously pay back loans aren't going to be able to since they will lose their jobs or take a giant pay cut. Other countries have already stopped buying the debt that we can't pay back and the US can't even export as much as it did before since the rest of the world will suffer too. It's like a bad domino effect that I think most people still believe is going to be restricted to one or two industries. It's going to be absolutely disastrous.
I trust financial experts more because although they have been wrong recently they at least have historical precedents to work with. The MMGW people are guessing, using models and still explain the massive climate change that happened before people invaded the planet.
I don't disagree with any of that but how bad "absolutely disastrous" ends up being is uncertain. One reason that I trust the same people more now than I should have a year ago is now they now what's happened. There's no denial about subprime loans bringing down the system. No, they don't know exactly how widespread everything is but they unanimously know and admit the virus is in the system, they're not just deniers anymore.
after reading that article, it reminded me of something I have thought to be a major issue for years....public corporations.
The public corp model is a design for disaster...it always has been. it encourages foolish decisions in the short term to please Wall Street and shareholders. The inherent expections of eternally growing profits are unsustainable, period.
It also encourages virtual monopolies in certain industries. And of course, with the public corporate model, comes the evil Wall Street. And believe me, Wall Street is an evil entity by it's very definition as it is based purely upon greed.
Think about what would happen without stock markets. I'll tell you what I think would happen. We'd have far more solid businesses with higher productivity and more profits to share with their employees. No one would know or care how every company was doing except those who worked for the company. And isn't that truly all that matters?
Private corporations are the way to go.
BF, your faith in the very people who created this mess boggles my mind. For example, King Paulson, our beloved Treasury secy., made $700 million dollars in 2004 as CEO of Goldman Sachs while this derivatives fiasco was in full bloom. Now, the same arsehole, who was one of the main architects of our present situation is going to magically pull us out of the death spiral we are now in. He reminds me of a guy who steals your wallet and then helps you look for it. I think he should be criminally prosecuted(executed for treason, actually). Period.
Execute the sob twice...electrocution and then hanging....just to make sure.
My thoughts exactly. I think the actions of the last few years to stave off a recession have only made it worse by making inevitable a worse recession when it finally occurred. Without beating a dead horse, there is PLENTY of blame to lay all around on the mortgage crisis, the major root cause of this.
People who have been planning for this or living conservatively (not a lot of debt) who can hold onto their jobs should be able to weather the storm but it will worse than the early 1970's when we tried to have guns and butter and the bills for both came due...........
BTW, although I was kidding - I was, really - a lot of the Obama voters I know or have seen/heard seem to think he will flip a switch in late January and everything will be fixed. I bet there's a lot more people out there than we realize who think that once he's inaugurated he'll raise taxes on the top 5% and the next day everything will be great. I'm not looking to pick a fight here, I just think a lot of people falsely believe this.
Alright BF....an economics issue you & I are in perfect agreemnt!
I actually posted an entire thread on this issue and one person replied telling me I was being super negative.
Here's a link to the thread. I'm also going to bump it to see if people want to discuss.
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