Great Camp Competition on the Offense

[mgteich]

We have great competition everywhere. There is certainly the opportunity to have the best offense in the history of the patriots, better than in 2007. As always, the key is health. However, this year, we seem to have better depth than in many past years.

QB
Who will be the #3? Gut or Hoyer or a veteran or no one?

RB
Who will rise above the rest and get the most reps? Morris? Taylor? Maroney?
Faulk is Faulk, the rock, the constant.
Will Green-Ellis make the squad? Will we keep a fullback or h-back instead? or no #5 RB/FB?

WR
With Tate likely on the PUP, the competition here is for any spots more than four (Moss, Welker, Galloway and Lewis are the four). Who of Slater, Aiken, Ventrone and Edleman will make the team? They all are fine special teamers (well, almost all), which is why they are valuable.

INTERIOR LINE
Who will make the team? There are many competitors even if the starters are constant (not a lock). The list competing for the two backup spots is large:
Johnson, Ohrenberger, Hochstein, Connelly, Wendall, Yates, Bussey and Porter.

TACKLES
Light and Kaczur will make the team and then?
Which two among LeVoir, Vollmer, Britt, O'Callaghan and Duckett?

TIGHT END
We have Baker signed to a 5-year deal. Who else will make the team? The candidates are:
Alex Smith, Watson, Thomas, DeVree, and Listorti.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

RB: No Cuff? Kettani is unfortunately likely to wind up on Reserve/Military, but he'd be some tough competition in camp. Your point on the competition for feature back reps is a little off base given the way the Pats have been using a platoon system to keep the RB pool functional.

WR: It would seem the best Barnes and White can hope for is Reserve/Military status. Ortiz is back again, doesn't he at least get a mention heading into passing camp?

Interior OL: Isn't it a stretch to classify Porter as "competition" for this season? It will be interesting to see if O'Callaghan, Duckett, Britt, LeVoir, or even one of the starters eventually wind up in the mix inside.

 

[mgteich]

I agree on Porter. I put him in the same category as the others you mentioned.

You have finally convinced me that Hochstein may be in trouble. Johnson and Ohrenberger could very well be the backups inside. I'd be surprised if LeVoir and Vollmer don't get the backup OT spots.

I find it unlikely that O'Callaghan, Duckett or Britt could beat out Hochstein and Yates and Johnson and Connelly for the backup inside roster spot.

With regard to running backs, I don't think all will necessarily have equal roles. I certainly could see a healthy Taylor and a healthy Maroney getting almost of the 1st and 2nd down reps, with Morris being inactive, and also Green-Ellis if he makes the roster. Do we need more than three active running backs, unless the fourth is critical on special teams or in the short yardage game?

RB: No Cuff? Kettani is unfortunately likely to wind up on Reserve/Military, but he'd be some tough competition in camp. Your point on the competition for feature back reps is a little off base given the way the Pats have been using a platoon system to keep the RB pool functional.

WR: It would seem the best Barnes and White can hope for is Reserve/Military status. Ortiz is back again, doesn't he at least get a mention heading into passing camp?

Interior OL: Isn't it a stretch to classify Porter as "competition" for this season? It will be interesting to see if O'Callaghan, Duckett, Britt, LeVoir, or even one of the starters eventually wind up in the mix inside.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I agree on Porter. I put him in the same category as the others you mentioned.

You have finally convinced me that Hochstein may be in trouble. Johnson and Ohrenberger could very well be the backups inside. I'd be surprised if LeVoir and Vollmer don't get the backup OT spots.

I find it unlikely that O'Callaghan, Duckett or Britt could beat out Hochstein and Yates and Johnson and Connelly for the backup inside roster spot.

With regard to running backs, I don't think all will necessarily have equal roles. I certainly could see a healthy Taylor and a healthy Maroney getting almost of the 1st and 2nd down reps, with Morris being inactive, and also Green-Ellis if he makes the roster. Do we need more than three active running backs, unless the fourth is critical on special teams or in the short yardage game?

Morris is a solid Special Teamer and he may have a "Patrick Pass" role as a blocking back in two-back formations and with the new Special Teams' rules on wedges the up-man may need to be more capable as a blocker than speedy little guys like Slater. If Maroney gets selected to be the primary returner then four RBs may be a game day necessity.

 

[DaBruinz]

We have great competition everywhere. There is certainly the opportunity to have the best offense in the history of the patriots, better than in 2007. As always, the key is health. However, this year, we seem to have better depth than in many past years.

One of the reasons that the Patriots have "great competition everywhere" is because so many players stand to be free agents at the end of the season.

Mankins, Neal, Hochstein, Yates, Connolly, Wendell, Galloway, Faulk, Kaczur, Britt, O'Callaghan, Aiken, Thomas, Watson, Smith.

Yes, 3 of the 5 starters on the O-line stand to be free agents. That's not a good thing. And my guess is that is one of the big reasons the Pats drafted Ohrnberger, Bussey, and Vollmer.

QB
Who will be the #3? Gut or Hoyer or a veteran or no one?

RB
Who will rise above the rest and get the most reps? Morris? Taylor? Maroney?
Faulk is Faulk, the rock, the constant.
Will Green-Ellis make the squad? Will we keep a fullback or h-back instead? or no #5 RB/FB?

Look for BB to possibly go unorthodox here and keep Hochstein as the FB.

WR
With Tate likely on the PUP, the competition here is for any spots more than four (Moss, Welker, Galloway and Lewis are the four). Who of Slater, Aiken, Ventrone and Edleman will make the team? They all are fine special teamers (well, almost all), which is why they are valuable.

I don't think that Lewis is guaranteed a spot by any stretch of the imagination.

INTERIOR LINE
Who will make the team? There are many competitors even if the starters are constant (not a lock). The list competing for the two backup spots is large:
Johnson, Ohrenberger, Hochstein, Connelly, Wendall, Yates, Bussey and Porter.

Porter is destined for the PS. That is, of course, if someone like Philly doesn't try to snag him the way the Pats snagged Neal to begin with.

I don't know why Al Johnson couldn't stick with the Cowboys or Dolphins. But its is wierd that Parcells didn't try and re-sign the guy twice.

Bussey is going to be intriguing. I think that he is destined for the PS if anything..

Connelly, Wendell, and Yates will be in a dog fight with Johnson and Ohrnberger but I think that Ohrnberger has the inside track over all 4 of them...

TACKLES
Light and Kaczur will make the team and then?
Which two among LeVoir, Vollmer, Britt, O'Callaghan and Duckett?

I stated during the middle of last season that LeVoir was the Pats new swing tackle, having beaten out Britt. And I felt that LeVoir would also make Kaczur expendable come free agency, allowing the Pats to focus money on Mankins.

The Pats used a 2nd on Vollmer, so he is guaranteed a spot. Britt and O'Callaghan will get playing time only so the Pats give them the chance to get picked up by other teams.

TIGHT END
We have Baker signed to a 5-year deal. Who else will make the team? The candidates are:
Alex Smith, Watson, Thomas, DeVree, and Listorti.

As Box pointed out in another thread, they are all on 1 year deals since Baker's deal is an Option bonus, very much like what the Pats gave Stallworth and Washington. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Pats deal Watson in an attempt to get something for him prior to his becoming a free agent.

 

[mgteich]

Baker is here to stay. His compensation for the the five years of his contract are as listed below. These are not the cap hits.
2009 $3.2M
2010 2.2M
2011 3.4M
2012 2.7M
2013 3.0M

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Baker is here to stay. His compensation for the the five years of his contract are as listed below. These are not the cap hits.
2009 $3.2M
2010 2.2M
2011 3.4M
2012 2.7M
2013 3.0M

Okay, my bad, he's on a two year deal with an option.

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2008 Patriots Salary Cap Footnotes and Documentation Page

There's a $1.2 million option bonus in 2011...

 

[BelichickFan]

I'm not sure Tate will be PUPed, we pay a price in that he wouldn't be able to practice in camp at all. If his rehab is following the Deion Branch schedule he would be ready to play around the start of camp. All I know about his rehab is he's had no setbacks.

 

[mgteich]

I have included the 2011 option in these numbers. The fact that part of 2011 compensation is an option only means that the team will make the ANNUAL decision on whether to keep this player before March 1st instead of before September 1st.

So, yes, the team has a 2011 option, and it is technically a 2-year contract with a 3-year extension at the team's option. The fact is that we have Baker locked in for five years at $2.2M to $3.4M each year, and we can cut him at any time without serious cap problems.

2009 $3.2M
2010 2.2M
2011 3.4M
2012 2.7M
2013 3.0M

Okay, my bad, he's on a two year deal with an option.

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2008 Patriots Salary Cap Footnotes and Documentation Page

 

[Urgent]

The Patriots have gone with two QB's and four QB's. A wildcard here is Edelman, who could become an emergency QB if both QB's are injured in a game, if he makes the squad at WR/ST.

I'd be surprised if Hochstein didn't make the team. The guy is so incredibly versatile. He can play center, guard, or fullback - pretty impressive. He started a Super Bowl. I agree that Vollmer will be given every chance to make the team as a second-rounder. Also agree that LeVoir probably earned a spot with his dependable play last year. I'm not sure O'Callaghan projects well inside - I'd rather see LeVoir tried inside before O'Callaghan.

Looking at last year, I thought Yates was pretty poor, and Britt worse. Although Cassel certainly improved over the season, he was markedly better when Neal returned and Yates sat. Through the first four or five games, the inside rush was consistently able to get through Yates to Cassel. Not so with Neal. Losing Yates won't hurt.

Hochstein and Ohrenberger probably have the inside track at inside line.
Vollmer and LeVoir are the favorites at tackle.

At tight end, Thomas may have plenty of talent and upside but just no consistency. If he was more dependable, it might be a more wide-open competition. But durability and consistency is part of the equation, and Thomas has been unable to meet those requirements. He might go on and have a good career elsewhere, but Baker-Smith-Watson offer a fairly versatile, dependable mix. Of course, I'm still bitter over the Indy game. In the end, Thomas may well be best remembered for a single play that prevented a win, and kept the Patriots out of the playoffs.

At back-up WR, it's all about special teams performance. That's harder to project. Again, Edelman is a wildcard here, with his unknown ST capabilities. If he can cover punts and play slot, maybe return, it's a versatile package. His skillset would be nice to have. Based on the devil you know, he seems to offer more than Clank Slater. It would be cool to have another Tupa type on special teams - a guy who could sub in at WR or QB or wildcat while focusing on ST. Slater and Ventrone are miscast as receivers - they are ST guys taking any available jersey number. Neither is a threat to catch a first-half pass. Edelman is probably the dark horse here, behind the more established ST play of Aiken, Ventrone, and Slater, but has the most interesting mix of skills.

 

[crowell33]

There are 5 running backs on NFL rosters 32 or older. 3 of them are NE Patriots. On opening day, I would not be surprised for that 3 to become 2.

The approximate cap number for Patriot RB's 32 or older? $7.7 Million for the 2009 season.