Welcome to PatsFans.com

Great Article on the The Bay Trade

Discussion in 'Red Sox Fan Forum' started by Wildo7, Aug 1, 2008.

  1. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,851
    Likes Received:
    34
    Ratings:
    +39 / 2 / -0

    http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7889

  2. Foley

    Foley Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Bay is actually under control for 7.5M next year, but thats not really important.

    Overall I agree with the article. 1 year and 2 months of Jason Bay is better than 2 months of Manny. Plus, it clears up a lot of payroll allowing them to peruse free agents in the offseason, without having to fill a huge hole in the lineup. This trade may hurt them a bit this year, but it significantly improves them in 2009.

    As far as going up Moss and Hansen, obviously trading guys in their early 20's is never something you're thrilled to see happen, but anyone who expected Moss or Hansen to ever play a big role on the Red Sox was kidding themselves.
  3. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,851
    Likes Received:
    34
    Ratings:
    +39 / 2 / -0

    If you actually look at all the context around this trade, the Sox won big time, even if Bay is mediocre, which he is most certainly not.

    Tonight was an absolutely perfect microcosm of Manny Ramirez v. Jason Bay:

    Jason Bay makes a nice defensive play in left field and goes 1-3, getting on base 4 times. He scores the only 2 Red Sox Runs after legging out an extra innings triple that leads to the game winning run.

    Manny is 1-2 with a single and lightly jogs to an shot to left by CoJack, letting him leg out a triple.

    If Manny was playing for the Sox tonight, they do not win that game.

    The Dodgers got the better hitter and the Red Sox got the better Baseball player.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2008
  4. Canada's #1 Pats Fan

    Canada's #1 Pats Fan Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,394
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    If Manny was playing tonight, there is no way he makes that defensive play in left. Not a chance.
  5. Foley

    Foley Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I do agree with this assessment -- Bay is clearly the better fielder, base runner, and teammate -- my only concern is that there is likely going to be a learning curve after moving from the NL to the AL. Both Drew and Lowell were much better in their second year than in their first year, so I would think the same would be the case for Bay.

    Certainly thats not always the case, like with Cabrera in 2004, but I still wouldn't rule out an adjustment period. Hopefully moving from PNC Park to Fenway will have a bigger impact than moving from the NL to the AL, so none of that will be an issue.
  6. scout

    scout Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    7,699
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +35 / 0 / -1

    #15 Jersey

    When I heard of the trade, I was stunned that the Sox included Hansen. Then I figured that the Sox didn't think he would ever pan out and that they have a better product in the system. I liked Hansen when he was first drafted and was pitching lights out, since then he's been a disapointment and his name has been included in a lot of trade rumors. If not this time, he'd be gone this winter. Bay will play hard and Manny is on implode watch.
  7. patriotspride

    patriotspride Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    4,214
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    hansens contract is up after this year . if they want him they can try to sign him back.
  8. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,852
    Likes Received:
    27
    Ratings:
    +46 / 2 / -0

    The money that the Sox paid for Ramirez's salary this year is not important.

    Bay's salary savings for next year is important only in the context that it gives them a lot of flexibility next year to sign another free agent bat to compliment Bay next year, take their time to decide if they want to extend Bay, hold with Bay and plan on using the $ savings for the 2010 season, use some of the $ savings for free agent bullpen or starting help, etc etc etc..

    Money is an issue with the mangagement group, even if there is no salary cap - but this is a plus in that regard.

    I'm not quite as casual about the "loss" of Hansen and Moss. They are prospects that had trade value - and we used them in getting rid of Ramirez.

    I'd have preferred that Manny be a good boy and we use Hansen and Ramirez to trade for bullpen help THIS season - but there's not point crying over spilt milk.

    Similarly they'd have come in handy as part of a potential trade in the offseason too. That's not to say the Sox won't be able to make a deal if they want someone - just that at some point some of the prospects you dip into for a trade are going to pan out into very good players - and there's no need to "waste" them.

    Hopefully we won't look back at this trade and lament losing either of these guys - but I tend to think we won't.
  9. Foley

    Foley Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I wasn't saying that his contract is unimportant. I as saying that the 1.5M difference between his real contract and the incorrect number the article had was unimportant. I completely agree the benefits of Bay's contract are a large reason why this was a good deal.

    As far as Moss and Hansen, I'm not happy about losing them, but at this point they'd be lucky to make the top 20 among Red Sox prospects. Their value was minimal. The FO could have gotten Ron Mahay back for Moss, and they both could have been trade bait in the offseason, but I don't think that they could have brought back anything of real value. I don't considered their addition into the trade a waste, since the Sox got the best player in the deal (Manny's offense, at this stage in his career, is not enough to offset the superior contract, and superior abilities of Bay in every other facet of the game), so it makes sense that they had to give up the most.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>