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Gramatica In Cold Weather

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JDSal45, Apr 11, 2006.

  1. JDSal45

    JDSal45 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Gramatica is 15-18 in cold weather games. Some have implied he won't be able to kick here because of the weather. I see no evidence of that. He was also an All-American kicker in college and kicked 4 years at Kansas State, which can get plenty cold from November on.

    http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/gameday/

    J D Sal
     
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Vinatieri is the only kicker in the world who can kick in the cold. Get with the program, will you.

    :D
     
  3. CrazyDave

    CrazyDave In the Starting Line-Up

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    Yeah, what he said!!!
     
  4. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    we all know there can never be another kicker in the cold...OR snow... (Great research though..NICE try to slip it by...ONLY AV can kick in the cold and snow!!.)
     
  5. CrazyDave

    CrazyDave In the Starting Line-Up

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    Without AV, we'll probably never win anything.
     
  6. MrTibbs

    MrTibbs Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    That Raiders game kick and the Titans AFC Divisional game kick were huge.
     
  7. Dank Franklin

    Dank Franklin On the Roster

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    I really don't think it's fair that THE GREAT SENDOFF PARTY FOR THE BEST FOOTBALL PLAYER EVER will only take place in Massachusetts. I think I'm going to spearhead a campaign to ensure he gets the proper sendoff parties in Maine, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Vermont. Maybe we can have them every year to remind ourselves of this tragic and damning loss! New England football is certainly doomed without him. One party is clearly not enough!
     
  8. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    We're doomed.
     
  9. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    It serves mentioning that when Gramatica was one of the league's best kickers, Tampa Bay was playing in Chicago and Green Bay every year. And KSU is a seriously windy place. If he doesn't do well, it's not because he can't kick in the elements.
     
  10. Alk

    Alk In the Starting Line-Up

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    Yeah, I pointed that out when someone said he couldn't kick in the cold. It gets downright nasty here and then you add the ridiculous wind on top of that and it's every bit as bad as kicking at the Razor.
     
  11. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's beyond annoying to bother fact checking this guy, although at a cursory glance I found at least 5 misses (including one last second one that cost them a W in regulation in the last game of the season resulting in a WC road playoff game they lost) and games that start at 58 degrees don't constitute cold weather in NE. For us that's balmy. And while a few games were played in wind chills in the teens, I saw no mention of the white stuff.

    Most all starting PK in the NFL can kick in cold weather to some extent. Gramatica as an example averaged something less than 3 attempts a year in actual cold weather. That doesn't not qualify them as reputable or reliable cold weather kickers.

    Just like his offhand comment that Tebucky signed a veteran minimum deal, which he did not. This guy is just looking to make a case where his opinion is already formed - as most of us routinely do. Notice he's not buying in on Reche, which I guess is fine in his mind because that is his opinion.

    They are taking a lot of inexpensive flyers this season. No harm in the deals themselves, and some potential upside if they work out, but there remains a genuine and legitimite concern that if they don't work out there remain some troubling holes on the 2006 NE Patriots midway through the off season. Coming off a season in which we were decimated by impact injuries we really struggled to account for, in which we gutted it out into the playoffs though perhaps in part only because of the almost mindboggling collapses of the rest of the AFCE, we've lost 3 more impact players to permanently to FA, and thus far only replaced them with players teetering on the verge of scrap heap. May work out in the end as it sometimes has, or it may not. But refusing to acknowledge it's a tossup is just playing the ostrich.

    In Warfield's case, just as an example of the remaining risk aside from cost, should be make the roster he bumps someone else off. And should he win a starters job he bumps someone out of that role. Then should he, in a moment of weakness we might be all too willing to overlook because he's playing well, fall off the wagon and get caught - he's gone for the year by league mandate. So right now he's as risky as a CB coming off of back to back to back injuries over the last couple of seasons even though in his case he may look fine in TC. And we just cut a couple of corners basically because we could not count on them once the bell rings.

    I think at times the folks who complain the most about the way this team is portrayed in the media or even by other fans from time to time, are in some respects the most fearful of all. They can't even acknowledge the obvious. For the moment this team is operating on the thinnest of margins. The draft may help. Ditto an as yet undiscovered trade or FA signing, although with few teams in cap trouble and the clock ticking that could be a stretch. Hopefully all the injured players will return and regain their form. Hopefully some players will continue to develop or in some cases actually rebound from regressions. Hopefully we'll find a clutch kicker who can hit 80% of his FG and routinely KO +60 eliments be dammed. Hopefully Seymour's deal does get done, or if not he decides to show up anyway. But just assuming all that happens is assuming a lot.
     
  12. JDSal45

    JDSal45 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Can you name the 5 misses and games? I named the games, you didn't. So lets hear it.

    And as for the one he missed, I take it you mean the 2000 loss to Green Bay? I counted that miss. He was 2-3 that day. Here is a quote from the game story regarding one of the ones he hit "Tampa Bay knotted the game at 14-14 with 7:50 remaining, as Martin Gramatica hit a 43-yard field goal into the teeth of a 15 mph wind." So he tied it up as time wore down, but missed one so he can't kick in cold weather? Ridiculous.

    And why don't you state what the stats are? Don't just say he missed 5. Maybe I missed a game. But if he was 18-23 instead of 15-18 or something, I still say that is pretty good. Don't you? So why don't you just give the stats you claim were kicked in cold weather? Do what you say are the actual stats change my point that his stats are pretty good in cold weather? Is there a reason you can't publish them? Or is there an agenda why YOU didn't? Are they good or not? I'd be interested if you address that, because that was my point. Are the stats in cold weather good or not, no matter what they are?

    Funny you didn't mention the five field goals he hit in Chicago on the final weekend of the season to help Tampa Bay get a bye in 2002. It was pretty cold that December day, no? He was 5-5.

    As for Tebucky, you are correct. He received a very small bonus. Very small. Big deal. The point is the same. They could cut him with no risk or cost, almost. But his actual salary, SALARY, is the veteran minimum of $710,000 according to Miguel and published reports.

    J D Sal
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2006
  13. patriotsrule

    patriotsrule Practice Squad Player

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    Gramatica is also 27-out-of-45 in his last two seasons, was out of football in 2005 and lifetime has connected on only 43 of 71 kicks beyond 39 yards. Great research but I guess you forgot to mention those facts, huh? Oh well, at least he can kick in the cold. As long as it's not over 39 yards.
     
  14. JDSal45

    JDSal45 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I think the point has been made quite a bit about his last few seasons. I was only countering the cold weather point that had been made. That the actual stats are fine and he's kicked in cold weather for 4 years in college.

    And if he can't kick anymore, they can cut him for zip cost. This is no risk. THAT was my point. Too bad you didn't grasp it.

    J D Sal
     
  15. Pats67

    Pats67 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    You missed the point entirely. I'm not surprised.

    The research was in response to multiple assertions in the media community that because he had played in TB, he "couldn't kick in cold weather". The research seems to bear out that he HAS "kicked in cold weather" to at least reasonable success.

    Your post concerns whether or not he's kicked well recently. I don't think anybody has disagreed with that. And Greg can't be blamed for not spending any time writing columns focused on bedwetting, footstomping ennui.
     
  16. JDSal45

    JDSal45 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Also, is Gramatica's 61% beyond 39 really that significantly different than Vinatieri's is 67% from 39 and beyond for his career? Is 6% or so that significant? Especially when you consider Gramatica is 62.5% beyond 49 while Vinatieri is 47% from that range. Not to mention the fact Gramatica was at 67% from that range himself before an injury which hurt his effectiveness and required surgery. As I said, they can evaluate him in camp and if he can't kick anymore, move on. I got the feeling he will be able to do a fine job if he's healthy, which I suspect he is.

    J D Sal
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2006
  17. Pats/Hokies Fan

    Pats/Hokies Fan On the Roster

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    We'll never win now that Lawyer Milloy, Damien Woody, and Drew Bledsoe are gone !

    It's the end of the world !
     
  18. JDSal45

    JDSal45 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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  19. patriotsrule

    patriotsrule Practice Squad Player

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    Wow, you are actually comparing that joke Gramatica to Vinatieri. I mean, wow. I can't wait. I hope like hell this guy is our kicker because I can't wait to come back on here and listen to you all cry when he misses his first big kick. Comparing Gramatica to Vinatieri. Absolutely amazing how idiotic some of the statement by blind Patriots fans can be. If you think it's a good signing, fine but don't come on here throwing stupid stats around and compare this stiff to a possible future Hall of Famer. For once, I would love to see a post on here that isn't led by blind, stupid faith. Hey everyone, Gramatica is only 6% points behind Vinatieri. All is right with the world. What a joke.

    PS Tedy Bruschi is good and Tom Brady is great and Beill belichick has never made a coaching mistake in his life. Oh yeah, and Martin Gramatica is going to the Hall of Fame because he has made 15 kicks in cold weather.
     
  20. Alk

    Alk In the Starting Line-Up

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    You're missing the whole Kansas St. thing. He kicked for four seasons in some very brutal weather. If you don't think we have wind, snow and sleet not to mention below zero temperatures, you need to check again.
     

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