Graham turns down 4 mil a year offer From Pats..

[shirtsleeve]

I will bite.

It is not necessarily about being cheap but in the end free agency is measured by the players you bring in. The Patriots have a well established value system and tend to stay within the framework, however, at the end of the day you either get the player or you don't. It is such a unique market because no two players are the same.

I am tired of hearing "the Patriots made a fair offer, there was nothing else they could do...", there is always something more that can be done. Whether it is kissing the players butt, or stroking their egos, or being more pro-active in the negotiations or even offering more money. All of these are out of character for the Pats but may be necessary if they truly want to land the players instead of coming up just short.

You are correct in saying that is out of character for the team. The rest of the post, therefore is incorrect.

When you deal with the Pats, when you play for the Pats, or when you talk to the Pats, its NEVER EVER about you! Its about the team. Weeds out the doe for me's!

 

[psychoPat]

.... The problem is many of these GMs have no self restraint and if they have $30 million of cap space they spend like the money will never end.

That's THEIR problem, not ours.
Spending money wisely is a hallmark and a distinction
of the Kraft-Pioli-Belichick Patriots.

Others spending money as described above
can only help the Patriots.

 

[zippo59]

You are correct in saying that is out of character for the team. The rest of the post, therefore is incorrect.

When you deal with the Pats, when you play for the Pats, or when you talk to the Pats, its NEVER EVER about you! Its about the team. Weeds out the doe for me's!

I agree.

I think the Patriots have made it clear that they would rather lose from not having enough talent because they wouldn't overpay players than lose because they are in cap hell for overpaying players.

 

[psychoPat]

.... my gut reaction is that he already has an offer from another team(tampering) and knows his value is greater somewhere. Try to prove it?? Probably never happen..

Speaking of tampering ...
this is old news and may even have been posted here (which i missed)
... but GreatBlueNorth reported that
the league has dismissed the Pats' charges that the Jets
tampered with the renegade wide receiver.

 

[spacecrime]

I will bite.

It is not necessarily about being cheap but in the end free agency is measured by the players you bring in.

Yeah, yeah, every year the Redskins win March. So what? It is NOT about the players you bring in from FA. It is about the team you have on the field in january. If you are playing in January. Those FA splash teams usually aren't. Do you recall the Colts big free agency last spring? No, well it worked out okay from them, didn't it? Look at the teams that "won" free agency last year. Were they in the SUperbowl? The final four?

By your standard, NFL teams should emulate the Redskins. They always get their man. So what?

I am tired of hearing "the Patriots made a fair offer, there was nothing else they could do...", there is always something more that can be done. Whether it is kissing the players butt, or stroking their egos, or being more pro-active in the negotiations or even offering more money. All of these are out of character for the Pats but may be necessary if they truly want to land the players instead of coming up just short.

They don't want to land players who need their butts kissed and egos stroked. Some teams use stretch limos and take players to fancy restaurants. When Colvin once said he was taken to a Ground Round for lunch, Harrison said he didn't even get lunch.

For better or for worse, the Pats want players to whom football is important. If a player makes a decision based on whether he gets picked up in a limo or a Ford ranger, he is the wrong guy. They've been in the playoffs five of the last six years, and won three superbowls, so I think their method is for the better. Why does everyone want to change they way they do business? And expecially why does everyone want the Pats to do business the way losing teams do business?

 

[salty]

I've heard 6 million per with a 10+ million dollar signing bonus thrown around, so I think he'll be leaving.

 

[groundgame]

If the Pats really valued both Samuel and Graham, why not try early on to tie up one of the two to a long term contract, and then tag the other? My sense is that first tagging Samuel and then offering Graham an 11th hour market deal (that they realistically think will be rejected) tells me this offer is at best a luke warm offer, considering it is the day before free agency and as it known that Graham will have no lack of suitors for money above $4m.

 

[brdmaverick]

well, if this is true I am at least glad to the see that the Patriots did not give him a low-ball offer.

It pains me to say it, but with many teams with cap space it looks as though Graham will command more money elsewhere. He'll probably get a few more balls thrown his way too.

What funny is that Graham was plagued with stone hands early in his career. Don't you remember all those times a drive ended because of key drop by him? One of which was a that playoff game against the Titans. It was the fourth quarter of a tie game when Graham should have caught a 20+ yard pass that would have given New England the ball at the Titans three yard line. Luckily Vinatieri barely bailed us out with the game winning 43 yard field goal.

I wasn't a big fan of Graham after his many drops, but I think he has devolped into quite a player. He does not have the big stats, but he is an effective blocker who will catch key passes. Graham will be missed.

What's funny is that basically Graham's replacement, Watson, is another guy who is plagued with dropping the ball. Go figure.

 

[GHOSTOFSAMGASH]

I've heard 6 million per with a 10+ million dollar signing bonus thrown around, so I think he'll be leaving.

and exactly why he should leave he has decent hands, i know watson drops a lot of passes but graham is not any better

he also has a history of shoulder problems so his great blocking could deteriorate if this continues.

good player but we have 2 good tes and his blocking will be missed but can be easily replaced

 

[BigMike]

Two words: Dave Thomas!

 

[R_T26]

Am I the only one who thinks we can spend 4 mill on something better then a blocking tight end. I agree w/ Tom Curran- next year when we see Dave Thomas we wont even think about graham. Spend the money on positions that need more shoring up, so we dont have to play street free agent scrubs like baker in the secondary, and have undrafted LB's making their first start in a conference championship game. I like Graham, we all aprreciate what he did, but im sure when the pats took him 21 st overall they expected much more then what he actually ended up producing. The Pats will live without him, and that 4 mill can be put towards a player that will have a more meaningful impact.

 

[patchick]

If the Pats really valued both Samuel and Graham, why not try early on to tie up one of the two to a long term contract, and then tag the other? My sense is that first tagging Samuel and then offering Graham an 11th hour market deal (that they realistically think will be rejected) tells me this offer is at best a luke warm offer, considering it is the day before free agency and as it known that Graham will have no lack of suitors for money above $4m.

Think of this from the player's perspective. What possible incentive would they have to NOT test the waters of the most lucrative free agency period in history where almost every team is sitting on a big stack of cap space? You can't tie up a FA who doesn't want to be tied.

I've seen countless reports on how much more the franchise tag is being used this year, and every time they cite the same reason: it's a relative bargain this time around because you're measuring against old-cap contracts. That's perfectly true, but it ignores another HUGE factor...teams are resorting to the tag because players are refusing to sign extensions. The rich market is just too tempting.

 

[primetime]

I have this horrible feeling that Graham is going to go somewhere and become a go-to receiver and an all-Pro.

 

[DaBruinz]

Am I the only one who thinks we can spend 4 mill on something better then a blocking tight end. I agree w/ Tom Curran- next year when we see Dave Thomas we wont even think about graham. Spend the money on positions that need more shoring up, so we dont have to play street free agent scrubs like baker in the secondary, and have undrafted LB's making their first start in a conference championship game. I like Graham, we all aprreciate what he did, but im sure when the pats took him 21 st overall they expected much more then what he actually ended up producing. The Pats will live without him, and that 4 mill can be put towards a player that will have a more meaningful impact.

Its ignorance to say that Graham is just a blocking TE. He's the most complete TE on this team. Unfortunately, he's been battered to a pulp having to continuously go up against DEs who outweight him by 30-50 lbs because our OTs haven't been able to block them (either from a lack of experience or from lack of ability). Yes, the Pats probably expected more from Graham, but then they got a helluva lot more than they expected when they got, arguably the best blocking TE in the league. And, don't forget that he regularly helped out the O-line for 3 years because our OTs couldn't stay healthy.

Sitting here and saying that he Pats aren't spending their money wisely is pretty stupid since they can't talk to other players prior to Friday morning at 12:01 am.

Alexander was a 3rd year player. He should be making an impact and pushing for starting time, regardless of how the Pats acquired him. Just because he wasn't up to the task doesn't meant that the Pats were WRONG not to put faith in him.

 

[pheenix11]

If this amount is true then I can live with him leaving because I think that is a fair offer. I wouldn't pay more than 4 million for him.

 

[captain stone]

Speaking of tampering ...
this is old news and may even have been posted here (which i missed)
... but GreatBlueNorth reported that
the league has dismissed the Pats' charges that the Jets
tampered with the renegade wide receiver.

I read that, too.

What a shock, huh? The league siding with a NY team and against the Patriots.

Effin Puffin.

 

[captain stone]

What funny is that Graham was plagued with stone hands early in his career. Don't you remember all those times a drive ended because of key drop by him? One of which was a that playoff game against the Titans. It was the fourth quarter of a tie game when Graham should have caught a 20+ yard pass that would have given New England the ball at the Titans three yard line.

I wasn't a big fan of Graham after his many drops, but I think he has devolped into quite a player. He does not have the big stats, but he is an effective blocker who will catch key passes. Graham will be missed.

What's funny is that basically Graham's replacement, Watson, is another guy who is plagued with dropping the ball. Go figure.

I remember that drop. But after the season, Grahambo hit the jugs (machine) and made himself a much better receiver. Let's hope that Bumblin' Bennie shows the same pride, determination and dedication.

 

[captain stone]

I agree w/ Tom Curran- next year when we see Dave Thomas we wont even think about graham. Spend the money on positions that need more shoring up, so we dont have to play street free agent scrubs like baker in the secondary, and have undrafted LB's making their first start in a conference championship game. .

All I know is that when I see Dave Thomas, I won't even be thinking about Ben Watson.

I definitely agree with the other sentence, though.

 

[captain stone]

Its ignorance to say that Graham is just a blocking TE. He's the most complete TE on this team. Unfortunately, he's been battered to a pulp having to continuously go up against DEs who outweight him by 30-50 lbs because our OTs haven't been able to block them (either from a lack of experience or from lack of ability). Yes, the Pats probably expected more from Graham, but then they got a helluva lot more than they expected when they got, arguably the best blocking TE in the league. And, don't forget that he regularly helped out the O-line for 3 years because our OTs couldn't stay healthy.

.

These are true words you speak, and that's why the FO should be very, very serious about re-signing Grahambo. Thomas and - especially - Watson do not bring the muscle to the position that Graham brings. If he didn't have to help Light, Gorin, Ashworth and Kaczur, Graham could have been this decade's Ben Coates.

I disagree about Alexander, though. I think he's just a replaceable JAG.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

anyone who thinks 4M/yr for Graham is a fair offer is going to be shocked by free agency. I don't expect him to make any less than 6M/yr and I'll eat my hat if he gets less than 5M/yr.

theres a lot of money to be spent and few people are able to take the long view. They won't be looking at the fact they're paying Graham X% of the total cap, they'll be looking at the fact that they have 20M of cap space and can easily afford a 6M hit for Graham (less if they structure it in a traditional back-loaded deal). And while good teams can use cap space by resigning their good young players, the lesser teams can't really do that if they don't have many good young players. their only place to spend the cap money is free agency.

what I'm basically saying is "extend Ty Warren." How's that for a threadjack?