Graham turns down 4 mil a year offer From Pats..

[signbabybrady]

I think this is a good start.

he has stated he wants to see what is out there if he can get equal dollars to be a #1 than he is gone but I am not sure if he will find better $$ out there which means he may still have a chance to be back.

If anything this cant be precieved as a pats being to cheap to bring there own guys back.

 

[upstater1]

I think this is a good start.

he has stated he wants to see what is out there if he can get equal dollars to be a #1 than he is gone but I am not sure if he will find better $$ out there which means he may still have a chance to be back.

If anything this cant be precieved as a pats being to cheap to bring there own guys back.

Will he be ok catches passes but losing games with another team?

 

[Rob0729]

Sorry, No link he stated it on Sirius during the Red Zone, I heard it coming back from lunch.

I heard it on Sirius too. I guess I can act as your link.

This might be good for us. That means we might be competitive for Graham's services. We may be able to bring him back if he doesn't get the deal his likes.

Either that or the free agency will be even more out of whack than last year and the Patriots may possibly misjudge the market. The problem is many of these GMs have no self restraint and if they have $30 million of cap space they spend like the money will never end.

 

[Alk]

Well, I said earlier that I would be pretty mad if the Patriots let Graham walk but if we really offered him that kind of money I'll have to change my stance. I'll still miss Graham but you really can't say the Patriots didn't honestly try to bring him back. Here's hoping no other team offers him more than that.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Do any of you remember when we found out we offered Deion a deal that averaged $6.3M and we thought the FO valued him a lot more than we anticipated and he and his agent had to be nuts not to be happy with it?

What we offered him was 3 years of that, on top of 1 more year at $1M or so and an $8M signing bonus or $19M over 3 years (or $20 over 4). What he got from Seattle was $6M+ for 6 years with a $12.5M signing bonus or $39M. He will make as much or more in 3 years in Seattle as he would have made in 4 years here.

What either Graham's agent or the team is letting Gil Brandt know is they perceive him as a $4M TE. What kind of deal others offer him will be predicated on that. It will be length and bonus and utilization that differentiates the offers. And there may also be teams in the mix who are bidding a little bit for his leadership as well as versatility, which we verified when we named him a captain last season. We can still use that, but some teams are truly desperate for a touch of it.

 

[TeamPats]

I am sort of new to following Free Agency as closely as I will be this year, how often do players go into UFA and then re-sign with their old teams after thay have seen their worth on the market?

 

[mgcolby]

I heard it on Sirius too. I guess I can act as your link.

Thanks!

 

[Jimke]

Don't get a stroke for another day. It's not over

until the clock strikes twelve tomorrow night. The

negotiations will go down to the last minute.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I am sort of new to following Free Agency as closely as I will be this year, how often do players go into UFA and then re-sign with their old teams after thay have seen their worth on the market?

Not very often unless they have seriously misjudged their market. And if their former team is really interested in keeping them they generally use that to bolster the perception of an initial bidding war scenario where none yet exists. There are reportedly a half doxen teams interested in Graham, and most likely his agent has just let them know where the bidding begins. Now they have 48 hours to decide when or if they will enter the fray. Some may want to wait and see if they are just being used to drive up the price to the Pats, others may want to see if there are any other takers in that price range, and others still may want to have a pre-emptive offer ready to show him on day 1.

 

[NE39]

That seems like a competitive offer and good news.

Graham probably rejected it because he wants to test his value in FA and see what is out there. Why should he agree at this point?

The fact the Pats are competitive shows they value him and want to keep him. If he goes out and finds a better offer he might leave, but if he goes out and finds the Pats were competitive then he might still re-sign. Time will tell.

 

[cstjohn17]

If true it is an awsome offer from the Pats. Don't give me the Pat's r cheap stuff (just wait someone will post it).

I agree we wanted to keep him, and supposedly he wanted to stay. I guess that doesn't mean a blasted thing either.

I will bite.

It is not necessarily about being cheap but in the end free agency is measured by the players you bring in. The Patriots have a well established value system and tend to stay within the framework, however, at the end of the day you either get the player or you don't. It is such a unique market because no two players are the same.

I am tired of hearing "the Patriots made a fair offer, there was nothing else they could do...", there is always something more that can be done. Whether it is kissing the players butt, or stroking their egos, or being more pro-active in the negotiations or even offering more money. All of these are out of character for the Pats but may be necessary if they truly want to land the players instead of coming up just short.

 

[everlong]

I thought the Pats would have to step up and offer him 4/16 and I was hoping he would take a fair market offer and not go for top buck. The market looks to be nuts so 4/24 might actually be his market.

6M is roughly 5.5% of of the salary cap this year which is a lot to pay any TE and although I think Graham is probably a top 3 blocking TE could be a top 10 receiving TE given the chance

I know they would structure it so it's much less than 5.5% of this years cap but eventually those notes come due. With how much cap space they have this would actually be a year to do a roster bonus and let it all hit now if they wanted to do it but I think the price is too high especially when you have Watson and Thomas on the roster for much cheaper.

6M also could be Polk and Johnson to sure up the LB corps.

Tough call but thanks for the memories at 6M/year, tell Deion we all said hi.

 

[Return of the Nizz]

That seems like a competitive offer and good news.

Graham probably rejected it because he wants to test his value in FA and see what is out there. Why should he agree at this point?

The fact the Pats are competitive shows they value him and want to keep him. If he goes out and finds a better offer he might leave, but if he goes out and finds the Pats were competitive then he might still re-sign. Time will tell.

Let's be honest here, for all intents and purposes he is already 'on the market'. I doubt his agent is sitting there saying "I can't wait until Friday to see what other teams think Dan's worth". I'm sure they already have a good idea what kind of offers are out there and who they'll be coming from.

 

[NE39]

Let's be honest here, for all intents and purposes he is already 'on the market'. I doubt his agent is sitting there saying "I can't wait until Friday to see what other teams think Dan's worth". I'm sure they already have a good idea what kind of offers are out there and who they'll be coming from.

I agree, but those unofficial offers don't necessarily materialize as they were initially discussed. Things happen.

All I was trying to say was the Pats offer shows they value him pretty highly and are going to be competitive to keep him. It doesn't surprise me, at this point, that he wants the process to play out instead of accepting a last-minute offer. If he goes out there and gets an offer that they decide is too rich they will let him walk. However, it wouldn't surprise me to see them still make an effort to bring him back here.

Hopefully, he comes back. I like the guy and would love to see him re-signed.

 

[PatsWorldChamps]

wow..............that's a lot of dough to pass on. It sounds like BB tried, but Graham's price is going to skyrocket!

it all depends on the breakdown... eg.

if pats offered $15M bonus, and salaries of 1, 1, 1, 1, and 1 that is 20 over 5 and averages $4M... DG would jump on that.

if the pats offered $1M bonus, and salaries of 1, 2, 3, 6, and 7 that is 20 over 5 yrs, and not many good players would take that.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Dave Thomas was Vince Young's #1 target and I think that he is already slated to be the other TE with Watson next year. Don't forget about Mills as a blocking FB/TE. It looks like BB/SP made the choice last year to let Graham go.

 

[pats60]

Who is our #1 tight end ?
I like Watson better .
He`s not as good as blocker but he is getting better.
If you need a blocking tight end sign Kyle Brady .
He will be cheaper.

 

[JoeSixPat]

If true that's a more than fair offer - although its always tough to say what the "real" contract is.

Since I think $4 mil is overpaying (and the Patriots likely do to, considering what Witten got last year) I'd be willing to bet it was a contract that on the surface appeared as a $4 mil contract, in reality was somewhat less.

Regardless, I kindof find it tough to fault a player for going after the biggest payday at this stage of their career. I'd probably do the same if I were Graham too.

 

[DarrylS]

Too lazy to read all of the other posts, but my gut reaction is that he already has an offer from another team(tampering) and knows his value is greater somewhere. Try to prove it?? Probably never happen..

 

[upstater1]

I will bite.

It is not necessarily about being cheap but in the end free agency is measured by the players you bring in. The Patriots have a well established value system and tend to stay within the framework, however, at the end of the day you either get the player or you don't. It is such a unique market because no two players are the same.

I am tired of hearing "the Patriots made a fair offer, there was nothing else they could do...", there is always something more that can be done. Whether it is kissing the players butt, or stroking their egos, or being more pro-active in the negotiations or even offering more money. All of these are out of character for the Pats but may be necessary if they truly want to land the players instead of coming up just short.

If you go overboard you throw your whole pay scale out of whack. You end up paying a lesser player more than one of your own vet. The best way to do it is to gradually bring everyone's salary up to the cap without one guy getting paid twice as much as a similar player.

The cap has skyrocketed the last two years, you have to give teams a chance to catch up. I suppose one way to solve it is to give all Patriots long term vets a 25% raise across the board. Then if there's money left, you can overpay.