Graham/ Samuel contract status....

[notex]

from reiss..

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2006/12/20/seymour_a_pro_bowler_again/

Patriots players whose contracts expire after the season include Samuel, tight end Daniel Graham, outside linebacker Tully Banta-Cain, fullback Heath Evans, receiver Troy Brown, special teams captain Larry Izzo, and running back Patrick Pass.

Samuel's agent, Alonzo Shavers, said yesterday that little has changed in terms of negotiations with the Patriots. Last month, Shavers said the sides agreed to wait until after the season to negotiate, and that remains the case. Samuel's negotiating position has been strengthened by his strong season.

That leaves Graham and Banta-Cain as the next likely players on the radar because they are entering the prime years of their careers after being brought through the team's system since their rookie seasons. The team has spoken with Graham's representatives in recent weeks regarding an extension


for anyone interested in their future w/ the patsies:rocker:

 

[DarrylS]

This has been discussed extensively on this board, we will probably not know much until after the season has ended..

 

[notex]

no ****....but i read it today and put it up anyway

 

[SoonerPatriot]

It's a virtual certainty Samuel is gone. Even with the huge amount of salary cap room, there's no way BB will match the crazy money other teams are going to throw at him in FA. This means re-building the seconday will probably be a big focus in FA and more importantly, the draft.

I do think Graham and Banta Cain are re-signed though.

 

[Patriots4Ever]

It's a virtual certainty Samuel is gone. Even with the huge amount of salary cap room, there's no way BB will match the crazy money other teams are going to throw at him in FA. This means re-building the seconday will probably be a big focus in FA and more importantly, the draft.

I do think Graham and Banta Cain are re-signed though.

See,I disagree.I think Samuel will be back.Just because we havent broken the bank doesnt mean it CANNOT or WILL not be done.I understand why BB and Pioli HAVENT been doing it.But really,Can we assume they will throw away EVERY player who wont sign for what we offer? This is still football,and to stay competitive we must keep Competitive Talented players.Im not saying that Every FA walking out of here should be kept.But Looking at How Samuel has gotten better,His Age,His lack of Injury's for the most part.I do see us bringing him back.

 

[The Gr8est]

Given the large cap increase that occurred last year and the resultant salry increase that are following, isn't it possible that franchising samuel may be a reasonable financial decision. Salaries haven't caught up to the available cash as evidenced by the number of teams who have lots of cap room available?

The cost to franchise a CB of Samuel's caliber, given the rate at which CB salaries are sure to rise, may make franchising samuel a reasonable option, at least for one year while we add DB talent through the draft.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Given the large cap increase that occurred last year and the resultant salry increase that are following, isn't it possible that franchising samuel may be a reasonable financial decision. Salaries haven't caught up to the available cash as evidenced by the number of teams who have lots of cap room available?

The cost to franchise a CB of Samuel's caliber, given the rate at which CB salaries are sure to rise, may make franchising samuel a reasonable option, at least for one year while we add DB talent through the draft.

The Pats just brought Patrick back on the Practice Squad, Spann has been on and off the roster/Practice Squad all season, Gay will be back, Chad Scott is signed through next season, Wilson is signed through next season, Hobbs should have two more years, Andrews is a player who can be cross-trained since he played both SS/CB in college, Childress might even be cross-training on the Practice Squad and not working as a WR...there is something suscpicious going on at One Pats Place to prepare for next season.

 

[spacecrime]

to stay competitive we must keep Competitive Talented players.

No, to stay competitive you must HAVE competitive players.

You don't have to KEEP the ones you have. They can be replaced with better players or players who just get the job done. It is when you don't replace players you get into trouble.

Look at our superbowl rosters for 2001 and 2004 and count how few players we kept, and look at all the names of competitive players who were not kept between 2001 and 2004.

 

[Jimke]

The Patriots had better start acquiring a few good free agents or

hold on to more of their own. The New York Jets are in the rear view

mirror. The loss of Graham, Samuel, and TBC coupled with a couple of

key signings by the Jets might be enough to change the pecking order

in the AFC East.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

See,I disagree.I think Samuel will be back.Just because we havent broken the bank doesnt mean it CANNOT or WILL not be done.I understand why BB and Pioli HAVENT been doing it.But really,Can we assume they will throw away EVERY player who wont sign for what we offer? This is still football,and to stay competitive we must keep Competitive Talented players.Im not saying that Every FA walking out of here should be kept.But Looking at How Samuel has gotten better,His Age,His lack of Injury's for the most part.I do see us bringing him back.

I agree that Samuel has gotten better. I still think he's more suited to be a nickel back than a starting corner. How BB views this will be where it all falls on whether he stays or goes. I do agree that if BB is going to spend, he'd rather spend on a DB than a WR.

 

[Mike the Brit]

No, to stay competitive you must HAVE competitive players.

You don't have to KEEP the ones you have. They can be replaced with better players or players who just get the job done. It is when you don't replace players you get into trouble.

Look at our superbowl rosters for 2001 and 2004 and count how few players we kept, and look at all the names of competitive players who were not kept between 2001 and 2004.

I think this post misses something important -- like a lot of posts in a similar vein.

It's quite right that there are a lot of talented players in the NFL and the ones we have now are not the most talented -- perhaps not even the most talented available. But there's a HUGE difference between the pure talent a player has -- what he would show on any team -- and what that player will do for you.

If there's one thing that people should have learned from this season is that the NFL -- and Bill Belichick's teams in particular -- is not "plug and play". So, while it's true that there are other players out there whom we should regret not having drafted four years ago rather than Asante, it doesn't follow that those players would be better for us in our system now. We can't just replace the players we lose, even if an intrinsically more talented player becomes available.

Add to that that you have a big "informational" advantage in assessing the players already on your roster. Pioli and Belichick have made some really bad free agent mistakes recently (Starks, Gabriel) as well as some not so big ones (Terrell, Sullivan, etc.) They're acknowledged as among the best personnel people in the business, but even they can't tell stuff about character and football intelligence without having the player to work with.

In my opinion, Asante has really grown into his role with the team this season and, given the uncertainties elsewhere in the secondary, his loss would be as serious for the team as would that of a certain wide receiver who shall be nameless.

 

[tombonneau]

Paying elite CB $$ to Asante would be a mistake IMO. He is a passable CB1, solid CB2, oustanding CB3. Yes, he has made a lot of picks this year, but bear in mind, hasn't this season's total already exceeded his previous career total?

IMO, INTs can be a somewhat aleatory statistic and are not be the end-all-be-all barometer for measuring a CBs skill.

A lot of picks are "right place, right time" gifts due to bad passes. Fact is, prior to this year I recall Samuel more for dropping gift INTs than making big plays.

I think if he is signed to reasonable money, say paid as the #8-10 CB in the league, he will be worth the money. But I just recall the $$ doled out to mediocre corners the last few offseasons and you have to think Asante is gone.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I don't understand some of the comments about Samuel. Can't you see with your own eyes that the guy is like glue? He's arrived - a top 10 cover corner in this league, who's also smart, a good tackler, good speed, great hands, hardly ever hurt, and young. Belichik will pay him because he's still good value even at a high price.

In my opinion, he's the best CB to play for the Pats in decades, with the exception of Law. And to be honest, I like Samuel's game better than Law's, who lacked speed and tried to compensate by holding.

Anyone calling Samuel a #2 CB is just blind as a bat.

 

[smg93]

A lot of picks are "right place, right time" gifts due to bad passes. Fact is, prior to this year I recall Samuel more for dropping gift INTs than making big plays.

Doesn't that say that he's usually at the right place and right time for an INT throughout his career then? Perhaps in the off season he worked on catching balls thrown his way instead of letting them slip through his fingers. Maybe that's why he has 8 INT's this year instead of 2 INT's and 6 drops.

 

[pats63]

I agree that Samuel Is a very good DB. Young,depenable,good hand,speed and knows hit what esle can you ask for?????Price......I am big fan of Samuel form the begining.I hope we keep him.....

 

[SoonerPatriot]

I don't understand some of the comments about Samuel. Can't you see with your own eyes that the guy is like glue? He's arrived - a top 10 cover corner in this league, who's also smart, a good tackler, good speed, great hands, hardly ever hurt, and young. Belichik will pay him because he's still good value even at a high price.

In my opinion, he's the best CB to play for the Pats in decades, with the exception of Law. And to be honest, I like Samuel's game better than Law's, who lacked speed and tried to compensate by holding.

Anyone calling Samuel a #2 CB is just blind as a bat.

I guess you missed the Indy and Denver games.

 

[SeanBruschi54]

I don't understand some of the comments about Samuel. Can't you see with your own eyes that the guy is like glue? He's arrived - a top 10 cover corner in this league, who's also smart, a good tackler, good speed, great hands, hardly ever hurt, and young. Belichik will pay him because he's still good value even at a high price.

Adam Jones, Champ Bailey, Chris McCallister, Rashean Mathis, Lito Shepard, Charles Tillman, Antoine Winfield, Deangelo Hall, Ronde Barber and Dunta Robinson. I just named ten better CB's than Asante Samuel. I could probably name a couple more off the top of my head. I didnt even say Terrence Newman yet

In my opinion, he's the best CB to play for the Pats in decades, with the exception of Law. And to be honest, I like Samuel's game better than Law's, who lacked speed and tried to compensate by holding.

We really havent had that many great CB's besides Law though. But Otis in his prime would beat him.

Anyone calling Samuel a #2 CB is just blind as a bat.

But thats essentially what he is a solid number 2. Who can fill in a number 1 spot in a pinch. He gets thrown to way too much to be considered a really good corner.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Doesn't that say that he's usually at the right place and right time for an INT throughout his career then? Perhaps in the off season he worked on catching balls thrown his way instead of letting them slip through his fingers. Maybe that's why he has 8 INT's this year instead of 2 INT's and 6 drops.

That doesn't make him a top ten cover corner - it makes him a ballhawk who did work in the off season to improve his hands. Although whether his ballhawking is a result of superior instinct or just good instincts combined with being placed in a position to succeed is debatable. He's obviously not freelancing or picks or not he'd be benched. So the system may be providing him opportunities he might not otherwise have been in a position to capitalize on. Oh, and not to mention the bulk of his picks have come off just a handful of QB's who happen to be among the more inept in the league in that regard. He has also given up big plays in some of those games, not to mention he struggled mightily last year and on occasion this season in the absence of a top free safety and a front 7 executing at near peak efficiency.

He's a good fit for this system, but he's not a guy you can leave on an island and know he'll compensate for others deficiencies. That's what top 10 corners do. He's not one of them, which is why he got snubbed for the pro bowl. It would be great if he realized that, but likely he won't unless the market enlightens him. It's a similar situation to Branch and Givens, and from what little he's said over the last several weeks he appears to poised on the same career path.

Belichick wouldn't overpay for Ty Law when he was a shut down corner in his prime, so I can't imagine he will overpay for Asante Samuel.

 

[smg93]

That doesn't make him a top ten cover corner - it makes him a ballhawk who did work in the off season to improve his hands. Although whether his ballhawking is a result of superior instinct or just good instincts combined with being placed in a position to succeed is debatable. He's obviously not freelancing or picks or not he'd be benched. So the system may be providing him opportunities he might not otherwise have been in a position to capitalize on. Oh, and not to mention the bulk of his picks have come off just a handful of QB's who happen to be among the more inept in the league in that regard. He has also given up big plays in some of those games, not to mention he struggled mightily last year and on occasion this season in the absence of a top free safety and a front 7 executing at near peak efficiency.

He's a good fit for this system, but he's not a guy you can leave on an island and know he'll compensate for others deficiencies. That's what top 10 corners do. He's not one of them, which is why he got snubbed for the pro bowl. It would be great if he realized that, but likely he won't unless the market enlightens him. It's a similar situation to Branch and Givens, and from what little he's said over the last several weeks he appears to poised on the same career path.

Belichick wouldn't overpay for Ty Law when he was a shut down corner in his prime, so I can't imagine he will overpay for Asante Samuel.

Let's say I agree that he isn't a top ten cover corner (and actually I really don't think he is) but, what if a team out there decides to pay him as such? What do we do when that happens and we assume that he is an excellent fit for the system we play in? Are there CB's out there whether in FA or in the draft that can fit in to this system as well as he has this year? (this question is not rhetorical in any way, I actually really am asking who out there might be a good fit to replace samuel in case he leaves)

Someone on this board made a good point about Deion Branch. If we were saying that Branch was made better by the system and judging by our WR's this year, Branch clearly fit our system better than our current WR's (because as has been stated over and over again in this board that it takes a good deal of time to learn our system), why shouldn't we pay more for guys who prove to be valuable in the system?

Don't get me wrong, I do understand to a good extent BB and Pioli's strategy on managing the cap as has been discussed countless of times here on this board. We can't pay everyone to stay or raid the FA market with abandon otherwise we would be hard pressed to stay under the cap. The point is, if it's the system that makes the player, shouldn't we then have to value people based on how they excel in our system?

 

[patsox23]

I don't understand some of the comments about Samuel. Can't you see with your own eyes that the guy is like glue? He's arrived - a top 10 cover corner in this league, who's also smart, a good tackler, good speed, great hands, hardly ever hurt, and young. Belichik will pay him because he's still good value even at a high price.

In my opinion, he's the best CB to play for the Pats in decades, with the exception of Law. And to be honest, I like Samuel's game better than Law's, who lacked speed and tried to compensate by holding.

Anyone calling Samuel a #2 CB is just blind as a bat.

Wow. This is so over-the-top, I think you must be joking. Tongue-in-cheek? I like Samuel and all, and I don't think his INT total has to do with "right place, right time," but this is silly.