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Governments Are Amazingly Good at Killing

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by State, Jun 8, 2010.

  1. State

    State Rookie

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    Political scientist Rudy Rummel estimates that 262 million people were murdered by their own government during the last century -- that is 2.6 million per year. This includes genocide, the murder of people for political reasons, and mass murder.

    Here's his website: 20th Century Democide

    That Second Amendment is looking better all the time. It's the best curb on government turning lethal against its own citizens.

    It's amazing how some governments, like Turkey's, haven't come to terms with its role in genocide. A writer there mentioned it in an interview and was prosecuted but was let off on a technicality. Yesterday's Writer's Almanac by Garrison Keillor covered Orhan Pamuk.

    Death of a Lawn Mower by David Ignatow | The Writer's Almanac with Garrison Keillor
  2. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Huh?

    Someone would need to explain to me the utility of the 2nd amendment when it comes to preventing the government from assassinating its own citizens.
  3. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    With weapons, a society can organize against a tyrannical gov't. Now maybe they won't have tanks and fighter jets, but at least they'll have the capacity to put up some fight.

    If a gov't can own & use lethal weapons, so should those living under that gov't. After all, ALL gov't work for the people of every nation, not the other way around.
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    President Bush and President Obama are amazingly good at killing.
    Iraq/Afghanistan
  5. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    What does the 2nd amendment have to do with this topic? You might note that the USA is nowhere in that list.
  6. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Did you even read the OP? Methinks not.
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The 2nd amendment was put in to allow citizens to protect themselves from tyrannical government.

    Fascist and Communist have not allowed private ownership of arms. The results are clear.
  8. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    WOW.....thats an narrow understanding of the 2nd amemdment for sure...

    It included protection of states from NON DEMOCRATIC governments
    repelling invasions
    surpressing insurrection
    facilitating "natural right' of self defense
    participating in law inforcement

    and...

    SLAVE CONTROL!


    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


    SSRN-Book Review: A Well-Regulated Militia: The Founding Fathers and the Origins of Gun Control in America by David Hardy
    Origins of the Bill of Rights - Google Books
  9. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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  10. TBradyOwnsYou

    TBradyOwnsYou Rookie

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    As for the 2nd Amendment... it's irrelevent to this topic. The US government has way more, and way better weapons than you can ever have. Unless every citizen everywhere stands up at the same time to fight, the government would win 100 out of 100 times.
  11. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    That would tie in to the strict control over the military by civilian laws. Your point is well taken and highlights that need. There was a post last week here about letting the military take care of things (suggesting allowing them to operate outside of the law when they see fit)while civilians keep things going at home. That's all fine and good until the military decides civilians are the enemy.
  12. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Raw military power does little to crush insurgencies, even if run by a minority. I think we've had some very cogent examples in the American experience in the last few years, one of which you are experiencing right now.

    Well, there is a subtle difference when one perceives liberal (as in democratic) values. If you want some insight into the ideological divide, look at Egyptian law versus US law. Egyptian law allows for many of the same freedoms that we have, but Egyptians clearly don't have these freedoms in practice. The reason? There is this idea that the government works for the "public interest" rather than for the freedom of the individual.

    Therefore, in Egypt, if seizing someone's home and building a school on top of it serves the public interest, it is legal. If silencing a newspaper that erodes public confidence is perceived as serving the public interest, shuttering the newspaper is legal. The degree to and manner in which a government should work for the people has to be clearly delineated, so that the government cannot take advantage of their role as "servant of the public interest" to abuse their power.

    What this boils down to is education. The more ignorant the populace, the more susceptible they are to being hoodwinked by abusive authority. I believe that public participation in government is a human right, but proper participation comes with responsibility, and education and knowledge are critical components of that responsibility.

    This is my major problem with partisan party politics. It truly waters down the level of discourse in this country. If you need examples of this, just browse through 95% of the threads in this forum, and you'll find finger pointing and other silliness with little substance.

    Thus, while I do believe that an armed populace instills a unique and compelling check on government power, an enlightened populace is just as important, or perhaps more important, to safeguarding the sanctity of public participation and democratic institutions.
  13. State

    State Rookie

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    Glenn Reynolds quoting Walter Russell Mead has a post on this, how democratic politics can lead to genocide, or, "democide."

    Instapundit Blog Archive WALTER RUSSELL MEAD: Goo-Goo Genocidaires: The Blood Is Dripping From Their Hands. “Of all the mas…
  14. TBradyOwnsYou

    TBradyOwnsYou Rookie

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    Within the American border we're pretty good at not letting the crazies get out of hand though. The FBI generally pounces on them before it gets to the Waco level.
  15. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Some would say they've already decided exactly that.
  16. TBradyOwnsYou

    TBradyOwnsYou Rookie

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    Civilians aren't the enemy, but the enemy is mostly civilian!
  17. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    See?
    10
  18. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Why am I not surprised that someone needs to explain that to you?
  19. State

    State Rookie

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    A couple of good movies on this topic. Of course, "Shindler's List."

    I also heartily recommend "The Killing Fields" about Cambodian genocide. Pol Pot goes to the Left Bank of Paris and become a psycho.

    I wonder how that happened.

    It's something Jews should do well to consider: the WWII brethren and sisters suffered and died without in the overwhelming number of cases being able to fight back.

    Just think if they had had firearms what damage they could have inflicted on the Nazi war machine!
  20. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wasn't one of Hitlers first moves when he came to power to sieze all personal firearms (the left wing bastards will never do it in america)

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