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Government-run Healthcare

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by State, Jun 10, 2009.

  1. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    Bringing the efficiency of the DMV and the service of the postal system to a doctor near you.

    If there will be any left.

    Murder by Bureaucracy

    Peter Ferrara really knows his stuff; read his article carefully. Even if you bought into the Obama kool-aid.

    I thought keeping choice a private matter was something that most Americans felt positive about. I don't want a gov't bureaucrat to come between me and my doctor.

    I'm reminded of the leftist Canadian politician who came to LA for breast cancer treatment, even though she supports the single payer system up there. Stronach travels to U.S. for cancer treatment

    Problem is: a lack of sophisticated machines we here take for granted. And aside from routine care, which truth be told single payer approaches to great on, be prepared for long, long waits. Even in emergency rooms.

    And you can forget about expensive procedures. Over 65 and want a knee or hip replaced? Sorry, too old.

    But this scenario is exactly what some Democrats in Washington are plowing ahead with. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/10/us/politics/10health.html
     
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    The proponents seem to say that :

    It will be cheaper AND more people will get health care AND we'll all get better health care.

    Now - the "savings" would come from removing insurance company profit and removing "waste" - however you define waste.

    So to pay for more people getting health care, more of us getting better health care and having some left over (the savings we're supposed to see). If anyone actually believes we can add tens of millions to the payroll and add to the quality for the rest of us with the savings being Insrance Company Profit + (Current Waste - Waste from New System) then they simply aren't thinking. It won't cost less. It won't cost the same. It will cost more; substantially more.

    This health care thing with the media reminds me of Iraq and obama. The media bought into Iraq and never asked the tough questions. Then they bought into obama and never asked the tough questions. Now they've bought into this - and, again, aren't asking the tough questions.

    Thankfully the chance of Single Payer is very slim and we're more likely to fill the potholes.
     
  3. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

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    Well if you consider that currently under managed care doctors are already being influence by health insurance providers. I would hate to even imagine how bad it would be if the government was behind the cutain.......
     
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    More Government Sh!t Playing On The Fears Of The People.

    God Damn Government

    Medicaid
    (poor people love it)

    Impeach Obama
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2009
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Government runs a lot of things very well, but perhaps some of you live in bad slums where the government does not provide clean water, police, fire, good schools, and care for those who would otherwise be begging or living on the streets. Or perhaps you live under threat of military invasion by a foreign force or don't have a legal system, sewerage system, highways, and a financial infrastructure.

    Overall, I think our country works quite well, and the naysayers who always complain about government don't seem to appreciate all this country has. The fact is that national health care has worked very well in many countries and has proven vastly more cost effective in every country. A combo of public/private health insurance is bound to reduce costs substantially, create a more mobile workforce, and help the American people.
     
  6. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    Talk is cheap and fear is EXPENSIVE.


    Congress.org - Congressional Directory


    We have two options on our hands...


    1. Keep the current system, Go broke in less than 40 years
    2. Change the system, cover everyone, reduce costs. Have competition for care.


    call you rep, because this is coming up for a vote SOON.
     
  7. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    you always say things like this without providing examples.........what government things, if any, work efficiently???

    so how is the government going to make healthcare cheaper??? when has the government made anything cheaper??

    stop living in fantasy land
     
  8. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    how will costs be reduced?

    there already is competition for care.......involving the government will get rid of that
     
  9. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    Preventative care will reduce cost, especially to the uninsured and those who are poor. Don't take my word, here is teh secretary of Health and Human Services' report on the subject.

    -------------------------------------

    Approximately one-third of the uninsured have a chronic disease and they are six times less likely to receive health-care services than those with insurance, the report finds. The report notes that, in contrast, only 6 percent of high-income Americans lack insurance.

    New Report Highlights Health Disparities - Health-Care Reform 2009 - Tracking the National Health-Care Debate

    here is the report: Higher Rates of Disease

    --------------------------------------


    If the competition you claim exits, actually existed...you would see healthcare costs go down over the last 40 years. Instead it has risen at twice the level of inflation, each year.

    In every other kind of BIZ we'd call that collusion....but...
     
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I named a number of things. On the national level, we have the military, the political system, the courts, the agencies which regulate our economy and protect our money, FEMA for the most part, the FDA, the FCC, the FAA, etc. On the local level there are even more examples. Just go outside or even wander around your home and look at all the services your taxes provide.

    Private enterprise isn't particularly cost effective relative to government. It does some things very well, but other things it does so poorly that taxpayer bailouts, bankcruptcies, and other disasters result. A national health plan will give the government leverage in terms of negotiating drug and service prices, identifying synergies, and standardizing paperwork, best practices, communications, and record keeping.
     
  11. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    along those lines

    If we reduced administrative costs by 8%, we could easily cover all americans. Our administrative costs alone are greater than most countries entire programs.


    I can't stress this frontline piece enough: FRONTLINE: sick around the world | PBS
     
  12. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    The fact is that the quaility of care will be reduced, demand will increase, and rationing will be imposed. It's happened in every other country that's introduced a socialized health care system.

    I personally know some in the medical profession who will retire or change careers in the event this happens. Couple that will less people entering the medical profession.

    Socialized health care has been a disaster financially and medically for other countries, it will likewise have the same results here.
     
  13. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

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    You simply do not understand how managed care works. Allow me to simplify. Managed care = limited choice. Which incurs less cost for health insurance provider. How do you think Managed care would work under the Gov.? It would mean even less choice. The insurance companies already guide thier customers through manipulating doctors and their services. You make the government the insurer and good luck!!!!!
     
  14. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    No, slums are where people live in public housing, receiving public assistance, sending their children to public schools, hanging out in the public streets, with public pick-up of trash, using public transportation.

    Rich people live in gated, private communities with private policing. They also send their children to private schools. Have private companies pick up their trash and cut their grass.

    You are so wrong, Patters. Rich people pay through the wahzoo for services they rarely even use. Top 1% Pay Greater Dollar Amount in Income Taxes to Federal Government than Bottom 90%

    But, as a socialist, you must think that inequity is swell.
     
  15. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    they are neither efficient nor effective......every single entity you have mentioned has been politicized to the point of uselessness.......

    the government can't do anything else effectively.....they are not qualified to manage our health
     
  16. Mabeyitstrue

    Mabeyitstrue Banned

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    Last edited: Jun 11, 2009
  17. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I can't believe you actually think putting the government in charge will suddenly make the doctors better. Or make their job easier. You example is ludicrous :

    "Her doctors, no matter how hard they tried, couldn't figure out the cause of Jessica's abdominal distress . . . Crohn's disease is often misdiagnosed or diagnosed very late, says Dr. Corey Siegel, director of the Inflammatory Bowel Disease Center at Dartmouth-Hitch**** Medical Center in Lebanon, New Hampshire. "Granulomas are oftentimes very hard to find and not always even present at all," Siegel said. "I commend Jessica for her meticulous work."

    This was not a case of a lack of access to healthcare. Nor to incompetence. This was due to "diagnosing stuff isn't easy" and god help you if you think doctors will magically be better when under government control.

    :eek:
     
  18. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    That's an anecdote, May, not an argument.

    Why don't you google "cancer survival rates by country" and learn we are tops in cancer survival. I'd hate to see what you think works.

    Here's an example UK cancer survival rate lowest in Europe - Telegraph
     
  19. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    The countries where "national health care has worked very well" are the same countries that pay near and above 60% of their salaries to their federal government.

    As for the list of things that the government does well.. *ROFLMAO*
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2009
  20. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    A national health plan won't give the government any leverage in terms of negotiating drug services. In fact, it would be a conflict of interest for the government to get involved in a healthcare system like that since it regulates the production of said medications.

    As for standardizing paperwork, the government can't even standardize the forms it uses internally. How do you expect it to standardize anything? Best practices? That's a joke... Record Keeping? Another joke... Otherwise dead people wouldn't be getting stimulus checks. Illegals wouldn't be getting tax returns.

    Communications? The government still hasn't gotten its act together regarding national emergency communications. And you think it can improve them in healthcare?

    Sorry, Patters. But you clearly don't know what you are talking about.
     

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