Gost only 80% this year for FGs

[shmessy]

it is only fair to compare Gost to the kickers of his period. When you go through the list of 27 - I'm sure you'll notice the correlation with the fact that most of them are active today.


kicking standards today far outweigh them of just 10 years ago. Multitude of reasons, I'll leave it to you to google it. Also been a lot of changes in field conditions and the penalty of the ball placement has caused less high risk kicks (hence raising %s).


Avg fg % from beyond 50:
1960s: 13.1 percent

1970s: 21.6 percent

1980s: 35.6 percent

1990s: 47.8 percent

2000s: 53.0 percent

You forgot one variable of the recent period if you want to TRULY compare apples to apples in the same era.

Dome kickers.

Gost doesn't kick much in Florida or California or domes. (and before you say "He missed one today" - - rewatch the broadcast and check out the shot of the flags flapping straight out at the top of the stadium - - the one time he got to kick in Florida, other than the upcoming J'ville game, it's in the midst of 25 mph winds and a wet field - more like the old days than today's sometimes hermetically sealed conditions).

If you're going to compare within the same era, you must be consistent with your analysis. Gost does not kick ONCE this year indoors during the regular season.

 

[RayClay]

it is only fair to compare Gost to the kickers of his period. When you go through the list of 27 - I'm sure you'll notice the correlation with the fact that most of them are active today.


kicking standards today far outweigh them of just 10 years ago. Multitude of reasons, I'll leave it to you to google it. Also been a lot of changes in field conditions and the penalty of the ball placement has caused less high risk kicks (hence raising %s).


Avg fg % from beyond 50:
1960s: 13.1 percent

1970s: 21.6 percent

1980s: 35.6 percent

1990s: 47.8 percent

2000s: 53.0 percent

So what? The two highest kickers have less than two seasons. they'll have bad stretches.

Gostkowski is considered one of the best kickers. He ranks higher than Vinatieri and many others who kick in domes (probably a factor in those stats).

 

[Triumph]

Vinny is at 75% this year with half his games in a dome

Gost is a choker though.

When Adam V was 6 years into his NFL career, he was a legend because of those kicks in the snow bowl and SB36.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Just like the replacement refs did in Baltimore.

Great point. Watched a youtube video from the EZ and Gost's kick was good unless there was some seriously good fake post processing.

 

[jbb9s]

So what? The two highest kickers have less than two seasons. they'll have bad stretches.

Gostkowski is considered one of the best kickers. He ranks higher than Vinatieri and many others who kick in domes (probably a factor in those stats).

notice i don't opine on the merits of Gost. Only pointing out that if you are going to have a fair and balanced discussion, compare him to his contemporaries. Compare him to his performance this year and the last few and against the league average. Compare his salary to what others at his position make now, since ostensibly one would require a premium in performance for a premium in salary.

Don't say he is the 27th best kicker ever, like the original post did that responded too. Simply not true.

its akin to me saying Cam Newton Andrew Luck and Matt Stafford are better than 99% of QBs ever to play based on their passing yards last/this year.

Again, I am agnostic on Gost. He hasn't had a lot of opportunities and I do not suffer from recency effect.

So don't fluff up his performance by comparing his % versus 1000s of kicker in the 60,70s and 80s. Keep it current.

 

[shmessy]

notice i don't opine on the merits of Gost. Only pointing out that if you are going to have a fair and balanced discussion, compare him to his contemporaries. Compare him to his performance this year and the last few and against the league average. Compare his salary to what others at his position make now, since ostensibly one would require a premium in performance for a premium in salary.

Don't say he is the 27th best kicker ever, like the original post did that responded too. Simply not true.

its akin to me saying Cam Newton Andrew Luck and Matt Stafford are better than 99% of QBs ever to play based on their passing yards last/this year.

Again, I am agnostic on Gost. He hasn't had a lot of opportunities and I do not suffer from recency effect.

So don't fluff up his performance by comparing his % versus 1000s of kicker in the 60,70s and 80s. Keep it current.

You KEEP ignoring what was pointed out to you earlier regarding the "current" analysis.

15 out of 32 teams play in domes or south of the Mason Dixon Line.

So you CONTINUE to be selective with your analysis.

Wanna try some honesty or are you going to continue your lopsided analysis argument?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Here's the most interesting question, in my mind: why did the Pats give Gostkowski that massive deal (the largest one ever given out by anyone other than Al Davis) in the first place?

Clearly it's not something they needed to do, but obviously they felt they should.

 

[RayClay]

notice i don't opine on the merits of Gost. Only pointing out that if you are going to have a fair and balanced discussion, compare him to his contemporaries. Compare him to his performance this year and the last few and against the league average. Compare his salary to what others at his position make now, since ostensibly one would require a premium in performance for a premium in salary.

Don't say he is the 27th best kicker ever, like the original post did that responded too. Simply not true.

its akin to me saying Cam Newton Andrew Luck and Matt Stafford are better than 99% of QBs ever to play based on their passing yards last/this year.

Again, I am agnostic on Gost. He hasn't had a lot of opportunities and I do not suffer from recency effect.

So don't fluff up his performance by comparing his % versus 1000s of kicker in the 60,70s and 80s. Keep it current.

The OP implies that 80% is a horrible percentage for a kicker. I merely pointed out that lifetime it would put him 27th and his actual lifetime percentage puts him 11th.

It's as simple as that, 80% is not a horror, it's not even an off year for many kickers. It's a bit lower than middle of the pack, right behind the guy we picked up that can't kick it to the end zone.

You don't seem to think it's important that he kicks outdoors in New England, you are obsessed with one factor and you disregard others. Maybe you should look at the thread title and get some perspective.

It would be the same if i said Brady is averaging only 60% this year. I don't need to compare that to Sonny Jurgensen, it's not an awful statistic.

 

[Froob]

Even though it's big money for a kicker it really isn't that much money compared to other positions. Isn't it around 2.5 to 3 mill a year?

 

[PatsFanSince74]

So what? The two highest kickers have less than two seasons. they'll have bad stretches.

Gostkowski is considered one of the best kickers. He ranks higher than Vinatieri and many others who kick in domes (probably a factor in those stats).

How do you define "ranks higher?"

That Gostkowski has made 83.756% of his FGA's in only 6+ seasons vs. Vinatieri's 82.424% in 16+ seasons? That Gostkowski has made 99.706% of his Extra Point tries in only 6+ seasons vs. Vinatieri's 98.400% in 16+?

Talk about meaningless distinctions. (See links below if you doubt those numbers.) And, if you want to argue that they are "meaningful," come back here in ten years so we can compare Gostkowski's numbers with Vinatieri's after 16 seasons.

All I know is that Number Four is going to Canton, that Goskowski isn't and that there is certainly no Patriots' Dynasty without his kick to tie the Snow Bowl ("the greatest kick ever made in NFL competition" to all but Patriot and Vinatieri haters) and that there is perhaps or probably no Patriots Dynasty without his shorter kick to win the Snow Bowl, without his first walk off SB winning kick in the history of the NFL in XXXVI and without his second SB-winning "walk off plus three seconds" in XXXVIII.

Put it this way. I'm glad the Patriots Offense puts up points in bunches, because I don't want a Playoff Game to come down to a FG longer than 20 yards anytime soon.

NFL Career Field Goal % Leaders - Pro-Football-Reference.com
NFL Career Extra Point % Leaders - Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[Deus Irae]

Kickers miss. It happens. Those of you crying because Gost has missed a few should feel free to suggest that the Patriots bring in Billy Cundiff or Nate Kaeding. After all, the 49ers were looking at them because another generally respected kicker, David Akers, is also having a down season. Or, maybe they can just wait on Vinatieri's release, since he's only kicking at 75% this season. Or, they can wait on Mason Crosby, who kicked at 85.7% last year, but is at 62.5% this year.

It's kickers. The percentages fluctuate. Sheesh......

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Can't have a kicker who misses every six times from 30 to 49 in 21 tries. Just can't. There are 10 kickers in the league with zero or one miss from that distance. Janikowski has had like 7 misses from that distance in 4 years. It's not sustainable.

As for talking about 80 percent, in today's NFL, 80 percent puts you in the bottom third. It misses the point that kicking has become dramatically better in the last couple of years. It's approaching the point where there are going to be a dozen guys every year for whom the 45-yard kick is virtually automatic.

The top ten percentage kickers in the NFL this year have, in total, missed only nine field goals from 30 to 49 yards this year. Nine. Total. Gost has missed six. (And, by the way, you only get to 9, because the number 10 kicker in the league -- Jason Hanson -- has missed 3. If you take the top 9 kickers, they have only missed six total.)

Is it a small sample size problem? Possibly. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. But he really doesn't have much margin for error left. Also, he has made two 50 plus kicks, and that's in his favor. Still, six misses under 49 is simply too many in the modern NFL. Unless a team simply decides that they are ok having a bottom third kicker because they have priorities elsewhere, there will be 15 guys every year who will be dependable for no more than 4 or 5 misses for 16 games. Accuracy is going to get better not worse.

 

[PatsFan2]

Thank goodness not many of our games come down to him kicking it for a win. I think Brady Cringes everytime Ghost kicks a FG. Ghost is no Adam Vinatieri.:snob:

 

[PatsFan2]

Kickers miss. It happens. Those of you crying because Gost has missed a few should feel free to suggest that the Patriots bring in Billy Cundiff or Nate Kaeding. After all, the 49ers were looking at them because another generally respected kicker, David Akers, is also having a down season. Or, maybe they can just wait on Vinatieri's release, since he's only kicking at 75% this season. Or, they can wait on Mason Crosby, who kicked at 85.7% last year, but is at 62.5% this year.

It's kickers. The percentages fluctuate. Sheesh......

If our Offense wasn't as good you wouldn't feel that way Deus...Lets say we had a middle of the road Offense who depends on their kicker you wouldn't think he ok...his FG misses would be magnified. Ghost has kicked accurately from 50 yards on quite a few occasions...there is no way he should be missing anything 45 or under with a good hold. I think the luxury of him being in a potent Offense has kinda hurt him...Ghost is just not put in many pressure kick situations to outright win a game and i am sure as long as TB breathes he hopes to keep it that way.

 

[Deus Irae]

If our Offense wasn't as good you wouldn't feel that way Deus...Lets say we had a middle of the road Offense who depends on their kicker you wouldn't think he ok...his FG misses would be magnified. Ghost has kicked accurately from 50 yards on quite a few occasions...there is no way he should be missing anything 45 or under with a good hold. I think the luxury of him being in a potent Offense has kinda hurt him...Ghost is just not put in many pressure kick situations to outright win a game and i am sure as long as TB breathes he hopes to keep it that way.

Gost has a better career FG% than does Vinatieri.
Gost has a better career FG% than Vinatieri has since going to the Colts
Gost has a better FG% this season than does Vinatieri

Some career FG percentages:

Distance: Gost/Vinatieri
20-29: 93.5 96.7
30-39: 87.3 82.4
40-49: 69.8 73.6
50+: 70.0 48.4
30-49: 79.8 (99/124) 78.0 (235/301)

Postseason: 87.5 83.3


I'm fine with Gost

 

[PatsFan2]

Gost has a better career FG% than does Vinatieri.
Gost has a better career FG% than Vinatieri has since going to the Colts
Gost has a better FG% this season than does Vinatieri

Some career FG percentages:

Distance: Gost/Vinatieri
20-29: 93.5 96.7
30-39: 87.3 82.4
40-49: 69.8 73.6
50+: 70.0 48.4
30-49: 79.8 (99/124) 78.0 (235/301)

Postseason: 87.5 83.3


I'm fine with Gost

I say this knowing howm Jekyll/hyde he can be when kicking...i wouldn't bet on him kicking a 45 to to beat anybody.

 

[Deus Irae]

I say this knowing howm Jekyll/hyde he can be when kicking...i wouldn't bet on him kicking a 45 to to beat anybody.

Given his statistical history, you'd be a fool not to bet on him, but that's your choice.

 

[Italian Patriot]

Kickers miss. It happens. Those of you crying because Gost has missed a few should feel free to suggest that the Patriots bring in Billy Cundiff or Nate Kaeding. After all, the 49ers were looking at them because another generally respected kicker, David Akers, is also having a down season. Or, maybe they can just wait on Vinatieri's release, since he's only kicking at 75% this season. Or, they can wait on Mason Crosby, who kicked at 85.7% last year, but is at 62.5% this year.

It's kickers. The percentages fluctuate. Sheesh......

I understand your point Deus, but Gost isn't Cundiff or Kaeding.

He's an elite kicker, who's having some problems this year.

It happens but I think isn't normal. Not for a great kicker like Gostkowski.

 

[grux]

Gost has a better career FG% than does Vinatieri.
Gost has a better career FG% than Vinatieri has since going to the Colts
Gost has a better FG% this season than does Vinatieri

Some career FG percentages:

Distance: Gost/Vinatieri
20-29: 93.5 96.7
30-39: 87.3 82.4
40-49: 69.8 73.6
50+: 70.0 48.4
30-49: 79.8 (99/124) 78.0 (235/301)

Postseason: 87.5 83.3


I'm fine with Gost

Lets hope he is as clutch as Vinatieri.

 

[Rob0729]

I haven't read the entire thread, but Vinatieri completed 80% or LESS of his FGs in eight different seasons.

Also to Vinatieri's "clutchness", people forget he single handily lost several games either in 1999 or 2000 where he missed last second field goals that would have won or tied the game. He wasn't always clutch.

Gostkowski is having a down year, but most kickers have bad years even the best ones. It is one of the streakiest positions in football.