Welcome to PatsFans.com

Gore's HEAT

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Harry Boy, Jun 6, 2006.

  1. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    38,860
    Likes Received:
    119
    Ratings:
    +296 / 1 / -9

    Not all agree with "Mr President Wannabee"


    You'll often hear the left lecture about the importance of dissent in a free society.

    Why not give it a whirl?

    Start by challenging global warming hysteria next time you're at a LoDo ****tail party and see what happens.

    http://www.denverpost.com/harsanyi/ci_3899807
  2. DeanPatsFan

    DeanPatsFan Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Since 1970, the year of the first Earth Day, America's population has increased by 42%, the country's inflation-adjusted gross domestic product has grown 195%, the number of cars and trucks in the United States has more than doubled, and the total number of miles driven has increased by 178%.

    But during these 35 years of growing population, employment, and industrial production, the Environmental Protection Agency reports, the environment has substantially improved. Emissions of the six principal air pollutants have decreased by 53%. Carbon monoxide emissions have dropped from 197 million tons per year to 89 million; nitrogen oxides from 27 million tons to 19 million, and sulfur dioxide from 31 million to 15 million. Particulates are down 80%, and lead emissions have declined by more than 98%.

    When it comes to visible environmental improvements, America is also making substantial progress:
    • The number of days the city of Los Angeles exceeded the one-hour ozone standard has declined from just under 200 a year in the late 1970s to 27 in 2004.
    • The Pacific Research Institute's Index of Leading Environmental Indicators shows that "U.S. forests expanded by 9.5 million acres between 1990 and 2000."
    • While wetlands were declining at the rate of 500,000 acres a year at midcentury, they "have shown a net gain of about 26,000 acres per year in the past five years," according to the institute.
    • Also according to the institute, "bald eagles, down to fewer than 500 nesting pairs in 1965, are now estimated to number more than 7,500 nesting pairs."

    Environmentally speaking, America has had a very good third of a century; the economy has grown and pollutants and their impacts upon society are substantially down.

    But now comes the carbon dioxide alarm. CO2 is not a pollutant--indeed it is vital for plant growth--but the annual amount released into the atmosphere has increased 40% since 1970. This increase is blamed by global warming alarmists for a great many evil things. The Web site for Al Gore's new film, "An Inconvenient Truth," claims that because of CO2's impact on our atmosphere, sea levels may rise by 20 feet, the Arctic and Antarctic ice will likely melt, heat waves will be "more frequent and more intense," and "deaths from global warming will double in just 25 years--to 300,000 people a year."

    If it all sounds familiar, think back to the 1970s. After the first Earth Day the New York Times predicted "intolerable deterioration and possible extinction" for the human race as the result of pollution. Harvard biologist George Wald predicted that unless we took immediate action "civilization will end within 15 to 30 years," and environmental doomsayer Paul Ehrlich predicted that four billion people--including 65 million American--would perish from famine in the 1980s.

    So what is the reality about global warming and its impact on the world? A new study released this week by the National Center for Policy Analysis, "Climate Science: Climate Change and Its Impacts" (http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st285/) looks at a wide variety of climate matters, from global warming and hurricanes to rain and drought, sea levels, arctic temperatures and solar radiation. It concludes that "the science does not support claims of drastic increases in global temperatures over the 21rst century, nor does it support claims of human influence on weather events and other secondary effects of climate change."

    There are substantial differences in climate models--some 30 of them looked at by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change--but the Climate Science study concludes that "computer models consistently project a rise in temperatures over the past century that is more than twice as high as the measured increase." The National Center for Atmospheric Research's prediction of 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit warming is more accurate. In short, the world is not warming as much as environmentalists think it is.

    What warming there is turns out to be caused by solar radiation rather than human pollution. The Climate Change study concluded "half the observed 20th century warming occurred before 1940 and cannot be attributed to human causes," and changes in solar radiation can "account for 71 percent of the variation in global surface air temperature from 1880 to 1993."

    As for hurricanes, 2005 saw several severe ones--Katrina and Rita both had winds of 150 knots--hitting New Orleans, the Gulf Coast and Florida. But there is little evidence linking them to global warming. A team of National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration scientists concluded that the increased Atlantic hurricane activity since 1995 "is not related to greenhouse warming" but instead to natural tropical climate cycles.

    Regarding Arctic temperature changes, the Study found the coastal stations in Greenland had actually experienced a cooling trend: The "average summer air temperatures at the summit of the Greenland Ice Sheet, have decreased at the rate of 4 degrees F per decade since measurements began in 1987." Add in Russian and Alaskan temperature data and "Arctic air temperatures were warmest in the 1930s and near the coolest for the period of recorded observations (since at least 1920) in the late 1980s."

    As for sea ice, it is not melting excessively. Canada's Department of Fisheries and Oceans concluded that "global warming appears to play a minor role in changes to Arctic sea ice." The U.N.'s IPCC Third Assessment Report concluded that the rate of sea level rise has not accelerated during the last century, which is supported by U.S. coastal sea level experience. In California sea levels have risen between zero and seven millimeters a year and between 2.1 and 2.8 millimeters a year in North and South Carolina.

    Finally come the polar bears--a species thought by global warming proponents to be seriously at risk from the increasing temperature. According to the World Wildlife Fund, among the distinct polar bear populations, two are growing--and in areas where temperatures have risen; ten are stable; and two are decreasing. But those two are in areas such as Baffin Bay where air temperatures have actually fallen.

    The Climate Science study concludes that projections of global warming over the next century "have decreased significantly since early modeling efforts," and that global air temperatures should increase by 2.5 degrees and the United States by about 1 degree Fahrenheit over the next hundred years. The environmental pessimists tell us, as in Time magazine's recent global warming issue, to "Be Worried. Be Very Worried," but the truth is that our environmental progress has been substantially improving, and we should be very pleased.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2005
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,648
    Likes Received:
    113
    Ratings:
    +142 / 1 / -4

    Most experts believe global warming exists and most believe that humans contribute to the problem.

    http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686

    Those who do not believe in global warming often are funded by the very corporations that are fighting against environmental protection. For example anti-global warming epert Steve Milloy (who works for Fox News) was a lobbyist for tobacco and oil firms and David Legates received funding from Exxon.

    Sure it's possible that most of the people who devoted their lives to this issue are wrong, but given that our environment is somewhat important, it's better to err on the side of caution, lest we leave future generations a world of desert, floods, and storms. But, wait, if we try to save the world for our children, our taxes will go up! Arghhhh!
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    38,860
    Likes Received:
    119
    Ratings:
    +296 / 1 / -9

    Could be, but whenever Global Warming is mentioned by people like Gore it always seems as though "Bad Old America" is doing all the damage.

    Gore has been in the process of counting Smoke Stacks in America, why doesnt this raving lunatic go to China, Russia or France and count Smoke Stacks.

    Did Gore ever mention Global Warming when Billy Blue Dress was the President, I know they never talked about the Homeless until Bush WON.
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,648
    Likes Received:
    113
    Ratings:
    +142 / 1 / -4

    Harry, I think those who are concerned about global warming know that America is doing more than many other countries. The problem is global warming affects the world and some countries don't have the money to do anything about it. It's a global problem that the wealthy nations will have to take the lead on.

    And, yes, Gore has been consistently an environmentalist including when Billy Blue Dress was President. As to your point about the homeless, well, I don't think that's your issue. It's one of my issues. The Democrats haven't talked about poverty in America in a long time, which I think is an extremely serious issue. It's one of the reasons I might support Edwards for President. He does and has talked about poverty issues for a long time.
  6. DeanPatsFan

    DeanPatsFan Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Gore and Billy Boy BJ were in office for 8 years.. That's 8 years that global warming got worse..

    Now the lying POS is blaming George Bush and Republicans for global warming along with all the world's ills.

    I wouldn't believe a word Gore says if he had his tongue notarized.
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,648
    Likes Received:
    113
    Ratings:
    +142 / 1 / -4

    What's your basis for not believing Gore? I think Gore is one of the most honest politicians. If you like Bush, I can understand why you would be uncomfortable with a truthful politician. Clinton tried to do more about global warming, though I agree he should have tried even harder. Also, let's not forget that the Republicans blocked ratification of the Kyoto Protocol.
  8. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    9,800
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    Global warming is NOT a political issue...and the stakes are quite high...like whther this planet will survive like it has...Not something to joke about..I had an acquaintance a few years ago whose friends at MIT said basically the next 15 years would say a lot about where things were headed..(2015)..some were very pessimistic and basically just said there was no hope at all.. The problem is that there's a real tipping point...that at some point, there will be catastrophic things happening and there wiull be little that can be done. Maybe you wish to wait that far...I don't and I think most of the world does not either. I have a few grandchildren..and I want to make sure that there is a viable situation here environmentally.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2005
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,584
    Likes Received:
    62
    Ratings:
    +111 / 7 / -10

    Just for the record and honesty and all that the Kyoto Treaty was rejected 97-0 by the US Senate, not exactly a partisan vote. There is a lot of doubt that homo sapiens are the driver in any current global climate flucuations. Here is a link and excerpt from an article by Fred Singer (Professor Emeritus of Environmental Sciences at the University of Virginia and president of the Science & Environmental Policy Project based in Arlington, Virginia. He has served as director of the U.S. Weather Satellite Service and chief scientist of the Department of Transportation.)

    http://www.thenewatlantis.com/archive/4/singer.htm

    here's an excerpt:
    An even more serious embarrassment to the IPCC claim is the fact that the global atmosphere has not warmed appreciably in the last quarter century. The IPCC climate models very specifically call for the atmosphere to warm faster than the surface as a result of the greenhouse effect. The warming rate is supposed to increase with the altitude up to about five miles. But data from weather satellites and weather balloons show no significant rise in the global mean temperature of the atmosphere, in stark contradiction to the climate models.

    Despite the paucity of proof for past climate claims, the third IPCC report says that “new evidence†makes it likely that “most of the warming observed over the last 50 years†comes from the human production of greenhouse gases. This “new evidence†is based on a single analysis of “proxy†data (that is, data that do not come from thermometers but rather from sources like tree rings, ice cores, corals, and ocean and lake sediments) showing the twentieth century to be the warmest in the past thousand years. Not only does this analysis conflict with other published analyses of proxy data, but it was also exploded in a re-analysis published in 2003, which showed that the IPCC claim was the result of a gross mishandling of the underlying data. If the dispute is settled in favor of the re-analysis—as seems likely—the IPCC claim of a “human influence on global climate†will be severely damaged.

    The response of global-warming theorists to these contrary findings has been twofold: One strategy has been to attack and try to discredit both the satellite data and the re-analysis of the proxy data; the other has been simply to ignore any contrary evidence. They make repeated references to the “warming of the last 25 years†but never mention the total lack of warming evidenced in both satellite and balloon observations. To ensure that the disparities do not get publicized, environmental lobbying groups (and their allies in politics and the media) generally refer to the science as “settled.†They refer to the “scientific consensus†of the 2,000 or so scientists connected to the IPCC—even though probably no more than 100 of those are true climate specialists; many are actually social scientists and government functionaries; and the list includes some skeptics of global warming who have expressed doubts about the IPCC’s conclusions.

    Sorry for the long post.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2005
  10. DeanPatsFan

    DeanPatsFan Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My God, are you serious? Gore is one of the biggest liars out there. The guy wouldn't know the truth if it bit him on the @ss....

    As for your assertion that Republicans blocked the US from signing the Kyoto Treaty, (Therefore saving US jobs) other than France and Switzerland, none of the other signees are abidding by the treaty. They are opting to pay fines instead.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2005
  11. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    16,185
    Likes Received:
    202
    Ratings:
    +420 / 5 / -9

    #61 Jersey

    Global warming primer for Harry Ostrich, DeanPatsFan and others

    The facts, and only the facts, below. This should not be considered a partisan issue, guys. Climate change will affect the descendants of Republicans and Democrats alike. Corporate America is the primary villain in spinning misinformation about the reality of climate change and global warming.

    How many degrees is global warming expected to raise temperatures?

    The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) expects a 3 to 11 degree increase in temperatures by the year 2100.

    What is the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)?

    The IPCC is a scientific organization made up of 2,500 of the world's top climatologist from 60 countries. It operates under the auspices of the United Nations and the World Meteorological Organization. The purpose of the IPCC is to (a) assess available scientific information on climate change, (b) assess the environmental and socioeconomic impacts of climate change, and (c) formulate response strategies.

    Would a temperature increase of several degrees really be significant to global climate?

    Yes. Even a modest rise of 2 to 3 degrees Fahrenheit would represent a huge amount of warming. Keep in mind that in the last 10,000 years, the earth's average temperature hasn't varied by more than 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit. The secondary effects of this kind of warming on our global climate could be quite dramatic. An increase of a few degrees in average surface temperature wouldn't necessarily be experienced uniformly. Particular regions would experience the effects of global warming more profoundly than others. Some might suffer changes in the amount of rainfall received, a climate dislocation that could severely affect the world's agriculture and forests.

    Do extreme events such as heat waves and floods have anything to do with global warming?

    Here is a quote from Thomas Karl of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA): "High temperatures are likely to become more extreme, and because night temperatures will increase by at least as much as daytime temperatures, heat waves should become more serious. Precipitation is anticipated to increase in the cold season in the mid- and high-latitudes and the number of extreme precipitation events (both rain and snow) will also increase."

    What is the cause of sea level rise?

    Sea level rise comes from the thermal expansion of the upper ocean layers and melting of mountain glaciers. The contributions from the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets are not as well-established and may be close to zero at present.

    How many inches has the sea level risen so far?

    Sea level in the last 100 years has risen about 7 inches and is projected to increase another 6 to 36 inches or so by 2100. The insidious thing is not so much the sea level rise, but the possibility of storm surges coupled with sea level rise. The Netherlands spent $10 billion on raising the levels of their dikes after a 1959 storm caused ocean waves to overflow the dikes causing major floods. The money was spent to raise the height of the dikes from 20 to 30 feet. Being a little above sea level is not enough.

    How long does carbon dioxide remain in the atmosphere?

    CO2 lifetime in the atmosphere can range from 50-200 years. Once it enters the atmosphere, there is very little that can be done to reduce carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.

    Where are we heading with atmospheric carbon dioxide?

    Presently, according to the IPCC and its range of possible scenarios, atmospheric carbon dioxide could double as soon as 2050. Among other things, this could result in more destructive storms, flooding, ice cap melting, and rising sea levels.

    How much in carbon emissions does the U.S produce?

    The U.S in 2000 produced 1,583 million metric tons of carbon from burning fossil fuel, nearly 14% more than its levels in 1990. Transportation, mostly exhaust from motor vehicles, accounted for 515 million metric tons, or 33%. Electricity generation from fossil fuel burning accounts for about 33% of the U.S's carbon emissions, also.


    Carbon Dioxide Increasing in Atmosphere

    The atmospheric levels of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide, have increased since pre-industrial times from 280 part per million (ppm) to 377.5 ppm (2004 Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center), a 34% increase. Carbon dioxide concentrations in the atmosphere are the highest in 650,000 years. Carbon dioxide is a by-product of the burning of fossil fuels, such as gasoline in an automobile or coal in a power plant generating electricity.

    Methane Also Increasing

    Levels of atmospheric methane, a powerful greenhouse gas, have risen 145% in the last 100 years. Methane is derived from sources such as rice paddies, bovine flatulence, bacteria in bogs and fossil fuel production.

    More Frequent Extreme Weather

    The year 1999 was the fifth-warmest year on record since the mid-1800's; 1998 being the warmest year. According to Thomas Karl, director of the National Climatic Data Center (NOAA), the current pace of temperature rise is "consistent with a rate of 5.4 to 6.3 degrees Fahrenheit per century." By comparison, the world has warmed by 5 to 9 degrees Fahrenheit since the depths of the last ice age, 18,000 to 20,000 years ago.

    The potential for floods and droughts is increasing. "....... the heating from increased greenhouse gases enhances the hydrological cycle and increases the risk for stronger, longer-lasting or more intense droughts, and heavier rainfall events and flooding, even if these phenomena occur for natural reasons. Evidence, although circumstantial, is widespread across the United States. Examples include the intense drought in the central southern U.S in 1996, Midwest flooding in spring of 1995 and extensive flooding throughout the Mississippi Basin in 1993 even as drought occurred in the Carolinas, extreme flood events in winters of 1992-93 and 1994-95 in California but droughts in other years (e.g, 1986-87 and 1987-88 winters)," says Dr. Kevin Trenberth of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).

    Disappearing Glaciers: Ice is melting all over the planet.

    Glaciers are melting on six continents. If present warming trends continue, all glaciers in Glacier National Park could be gone by 2030. The park's Grinnell Glacier is already 90% gone.

    Melting Arctic Sea Ice

    The Arctic, with an area about the size of the United States, is seeing average temperatures similar to the Antarctic, almost 5 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than the planet as a whole.
    Arctic sea ice has shrunk by 250 million acres -- an area the size of California, Maryland and Texas combined.
    In a N.Y Times article (Nov. 17, 1999) it was reported that scientists have discovered that from 1993 through 1997 average Arctic sea ice thickness was six feet. This represents a significant reduction in Arctic sea ice from 1958 through 1976 when average thickness measured 10 feet. This means that in less than 30 years, there has been a 40% loss of arctic sea ice. In a Washington Post article (Dec. 3, 1999) it was noted that in the Arctic, sea ice is shrinking at a rate of 14,000 square miles annually, an area larger than Maryland and Delaware combined.
    According to a report by Norwegian scientists, the arctic sea ice in about 50 years could disappear entirely each summer. Researchers at the Nansen Environmental and Remote Sensing Center based their predictions on satellite pictures. These pictures showed that the Arctic winter icescapes decreased by 6% (a Texas-size area) during the last 20 years.
    The Antarctic Peninsula has seen an increase in average temperatures of almost 5 degrees Fahrenheit in the last 50 years. Heavy sea ice has been the norm in the Antarctic, but in the 1990's sea ice disintegration has begun, notes Robin Ross, a biological oceanographer with the University of California at Santa Barbara. During the year 1998, the Antarctic displayed a record low in winter sea ice.

    Tropical Diseases Spreading

    A recent study by New Zealand doctors, researchers at the Wellington School of Medicine's public health department said outbreaks o f dengue fever in South Pacific islands are directly related to global warming. Global warming is projected to significantly increase the range conducive to the transmission of both dengue and yellow fevers.

    World's Coral Reefs Will be Dead Within 50 Years

    According to Rupert Ormond, a marine biologist from Glasgow University, the world's coral reefs will be dead within 50 years because of global warming, and there is nothing we can do to save them, a scientist warned on September 5, 2001. In a conference held by the British Association for the Advancement of Science, he said, "It is hard to avoid the conclusion that most coral in most areas will be lost........We are looking at a loss which is equivalent to the tropical rain forests." He also mentioned that if humans were to stop pumping out greenhouse gases, such as carbon dioxide, tomorrow in a bid to halt the process, it would still be too late to save the reefs. "I don't know what can be done, given that there's a 50-year time lag between trying to limit carbon dioxide levels and any effect on ocean temperature............"We are looking at a gradual running down of the whole system. Over time, the diversity of coral fish will die," Ormond said. He also said that the only cause for optimism was that new coral reefs could start to emerge in colder waters such as the north Atlantic Ocean and Mediterranean Sea. Humankind will also suffer directly as the dead reefs are eroded and shorelines that have been protected for the last 10,000 years are now vulnerable without their natural defenses.
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,648
    Likes Received:
    113
    Ratings:
    +142 / 1 / -4

    I never was a huge fan of Gore, but I do think he's an awfully honest politician. I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say he's one of the biggest liars out there. Do you have any examples.

    Clinton and Democrats tried to do a few things on the environment, including getting a Kyoto Treaty that would win support, but the most important thing they did is expand our national forests. Clinton's environmental record isn't great, so I don't want to go overboard in defending him, so for the sake of argument I'll agree that neither Clinton nor Bush effectively addressed the issue of global warming.
  13. ctpatsfan1

    ctpatsfan1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0


    I guess we will disagree on this one in that this has become sort of a hobby for me. I agree there are many devoted to the "global warming" cause but there are just as many stating that it is part of a bigger natural trend. Take for instance the following facts:

    "It is a fact that the earth didn’t start warming only 100yrs ago but has been warming for 18,000 yrs since the end of the Pleistocene Ice Age. Over that period the earth has warmed 16 degrees, sea levels have risen 300+ feet and forests and plant life now exist where only ice once did.

    It is a fact that the earth’s climate warms up approximately every 100,000yrs for a period of approximately 15,000 to 20,000 yrs called Interglacial cycles. We are currently in year 18,000 of the current Interglacial cycle.

    It is a fact that up until 8,000 years ago there was a land bridge between Siberia and Alaska, however rising sea levels caused by rising temperatures from being in an Interglacial cycle caused this to disappear.

    It is also a fact that within Interglacial cycles there are smaller warming and cooling cycles that last anywhere from 40 to 400 years. The Little Ice Age, 1400AD to 1860AD, a period that caused dire human consequences in northern Europe and for the Vikings to abandon their settlements in Greenland, is an example of one of these periods.
    It is a fact that sudden warm and moist phases occurred at various times during the time span of the last glacial phase, often taking Greenland and Europe from a full-glacial climate to conditions about as warm as at present. For the time period between 115,000 and 14,000 years ago, 24 of these short lived warm events have so far been recognized from the Greenland ice core data. From the speed of the climate changes recorded in the Greenland ice cap, and by observation of the speed of change in sedimentation conditions on land, it is widely believed that the complete 'jump' in climate occurred over only a few decades. Incidentally, earth's temperature and CO2 levels today have reached levels similar to a previous interglacial cycle of 120,000 - 140,000 years ago. From beginning to end this cycle lasted about 20,000 years. This is known as the Eemian Interglacial Period and the earth returned to a full-fledged ice age immediately afterward.
    It is a fact that from 1940 through 1970, the height of American Industrial output, the earth’s atmosphere actually appeared to be cooling, so much so that environmentalists during the 70’s were predicting a coming Ice age. However, during the 80’s and 90’s that trend stopped and the earth began to warm again, starting the hue and cry of the chicken little’s of global warming.

    It is a fact that approximately 186 billion tons of CO2 enter the atmosphere ever year and of that amount 6 billion tons are from human activity. Therefore if humans ceased to exist on this planet, this planet would still emit 180 billion tons of CO2 into the atmosphere every year.
    It is a fact that the current level of CO2, approximately 400 parts per million, is one of the lowest levels of all time. The Carboniferous Period and the Ordovician Period are two geological periods during the Paleozoic Era when global temperatures were as low as they are today. To the consternation of global warming proponents, the Late Ordovician Period was also an Ice Age while at the same time CO2 concentrations then were nearly 11 times higher than today-- 4400 ppm. According to greenhouse theory, Earth should have been exceedingly hot. Instead, global temperatures were no warmer than today. Furthermore it is a fact that there has historically been much more CO2 in our atmosphere than exists today. For example, during the Jurassic Period (200 mya), average CO2 concentrations were about 1800 ppm or about 4.5 times higher than today. The highest concentrations of CO2 during all of the Paleozoic Era occurred during the Cambrian Period, nearly 7000 ppm -- about 17.5 times higher than today. Where was the human effect then to raise CO2 to such levels?
    If a person were inclined to perform some research they would find that science states that climate change is controlled primarily by cyclical eccentricities in Earth's rotation and orbit, variations in the sun's energy output and continental drift. "Greenhouse gases" in Earth's atmosphere also influence Earth's temperature, but in a much smaller way. Human additions to total greenhouse gases play a still smaller role, contributing about 0.2% - 0.3% to Earth's greenhouse effect. From all the facts presented it is clear that other factors besides human contributions to atmospheric carbon levels influence earth temperatures and global warming. "


    these are facts not propaganda not spin but cold hard facts. It is also a fact that even those who believe that dire consequences will occur if Global Warming is not reversed state that the models they use to predict these "dire consequences" are too simplistic to be accurate. I am all for less pollution, more energy conservation etc. But I can not in good conscience side with out of control science.

    The best part of the whole global warming scare is when they attribute the latest hurricane cycle and their increased strength to global warming when the world's pre-eminent Hurricane expert a the University of Colorada states global warming has nothing to do with the increased number or severity that it is just part of a natural cycle.
  14. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,584
    Likes Received:
    62
    Ratings:
    +111 / 7 / -10

    Here is a link to the petition signed by 17,000 scientist who oppose Kyoto due to the weak science.

    http://www.sitewave.net/PPROJECT/

    BTW many of the 2,500 scientist who the UN refrences as worried about catastrophic global warming were schooled in soft sciences (sociology, psychology and so on).

    There is NO consensus on Globla warming. The earth has been much warmer in past EON's than it is now we are in a normal cycle.

    BTW here is an article on global warming on MARS:http://www.sitewave.net/PPROJECT/

    Wonder is ALGORE can get them to get rid of their cars?

    You know the Sun isn't a static process the radiation output varies voer time, since it is so large the time scales are larger, (hint check the 'little ice age' in the middle ages and look at the records of sun spot activity recorded by astronomers.

    I wonder if Al has ever taken a Partial diff equations class or numerical stastics class...nevermind.
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,648
    Likes Received:
    113
    Ratings:
    +142 / 1 / -4

    ctpatsfan1, even assuming global warming is a purely natural event that has nothing to do with human activities, it still might need to be addressed. If global warming will cause floods and hurricanes and other consequences that will take human life, then we should try to figure out how to restrain it, and if introducing tighter emissions standards will help even a little, why oppose them? Such standards are more than likely to spawn enough new businesses and technology offset any losses by the big old businesses that fear tighter emissions standards.
  16. DeanPatsFan

    DeanPatsFan Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0


    In September 1987, when Senator Al Gore was running for the Democratic presidential nomination, his press secretary, Mike Kopp sent him a memo warning Gore that his image "may continue to suffer if you continue to go out on a limb with remarks that may be impossible to back up." That apparently didn't solve the problem, because six months later, his communications director, Arlie Schardt, sent Gore a memo in which he said, "Your main pitfall is exaggeration."

    I invented the internet, The book Love Story was writen about Tipper and I.

    If you want I can post a few thousand more.
  17. ctpatsfan1

    ctpatsfan1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    as my prior post stated if humans' ceased to exist nature would still pump out 180 billion tonnes of co2 into the environment every year. How do you stop nature from doing this? Can you stop volcanic eruptions? Can you stop humans and animals from exhaling? Sure we can move toward cleaner energy sources but that isn't going to stop global warming. What we can do is prepare for the results of it by not building communties along shore lines etc etc etc.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2005
  18. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,584
    Likes Received:
    62
    Ratings:
    +111 / 7 / -10

    I think the next Ice Age will be a bigger problem for the domesticated primates than Global warming. In earlier periods of higher CO2 the planet appears to have been quite lush from the fossil record.

    We can't really change natural process's, we can only adapt. Thinking everything that happens on the planet is caused by/about us and can be controlled/fixed by goverment is just another example of liberal hubris.
  19. ctpatsfan1

    ctpatsfan1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    isn't that what evolution is all about......the strong adapt and survive the weak die out? Funny how the libs don't see this as part of the bigger evolutionary picture......
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2005
  20. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    16,185
    Likes Received:
    202
    Ratings:
    +420 / 5 / -9

    #61 Jersey

    The scary thing to me is a born-again like Bush including the Book of Revelation in his policy manual: "The world's gonna end soon anyway. We might as well use it up while we're still alive." Yup, that's "evolution" for you.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2005

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>