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GOP Rep. Jason Chaffetz Willing To Investigate Bush For Torture

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Holy Diver, Nov 9, 2010.

  1. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    ThinkProgress GOP Rep. Jason Chaffetz Willing To Investigate Bush For Torture: I Have No ‘Hesitation Whatsoever’

    RATIGAN: How far back do you think is appropriate? Because the one thing that’s not on this list is for instance a torture investigation.

    CHAFFETZ: Well, it may be on the list as well. I’m not afraid of going after the Bush administration. I wasn’t brought here by the establishment. When I ran for congressman in 2008, I’m just a freshman year, George W. Bush, Orrin Hatch, and Bob Bennett, three Republicans, they campaigned against me. So I don’t mind going back and looking at ‘em. So I don’t have any hestitation whatsoever.


    My man!
     
  2. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    for those of you on this board who are FOOLISH enough to believe that torture saved any american lives:

    ThinkProgress Former British Government Minister Disputes Bush’s Claim That Waterboarding Foiled Terror Plots In Britain

    “I don’t think there was any doubt there were real plots,” Mr Howells told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme. “Where I doubt what President Bush has said is that this, what we regard as torture, actually produced information which was instrumental in preventing those plots coming to fruition. I’m not convinced of that."




    “There is no point having international justice for petty African dictators if you can’t apply it to the leaders of powerful countries like the US. … “I’m not saying that [Bush’s] claim that torture evidence prevented terror attacks has no credibility whatsoever, but no evidence has been presented.”





    “Waterboarding is torture; torture is illegal under international law,” said Amnesty International’s Steve Ballinger. “So President Bush’s statement is an admission that a crime has been committed."
     
  3. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player

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    since its been a day and nobody seems interested in responding, I feel guilty enough to give you some validation.

    so if they didn't campaign against him, he would not be talking this way now?

    gotcha........I was just checking to see how people differentiate between right and wrong.

    I'd like to waterboard you......but just for fun...maybe get you to have visions of orange plumes
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  4. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Definitive proof! A former British government minister disputes the claim. Done deal!
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  5. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    So much love on this board for people who want to behead them.
     
  6. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    Right, and people who think waterboarding is acceptable in certain instances must all be racist animals who have no regard for other humans. :rolleyes:
     
  7. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    So much love for people who assign glib and disingenuous arguments to those who, gasp, have the audacity to oppose torture.
     
  8. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Yup. So opposed to torture that they wanted to keep Saddam in power.

    It's a black and white issue. Except when it's not, right?
     
  9. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    Just keep drawing a moral equivalency between us and and everyone else. Some day you might convince someone with more than a handful of functional braincells. And yes, for the United States, torture ought to be a black and white issue.

    As far as I know, no one wanted to keep Saddam in power. However the cost of removing him outweighed the benefits, and still does to this day.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  10. TBradyOwnsYou

    TBradyOwnsYou 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Yes, that sounds like a real straight shooter there...

    Um, where is the proof?

    Well, torture is a funny thing. If done improperly (like what most people think of when you say torture, ie: a Saw movie, Hostel, etc...) it generally does you more harm than good as the interigator. However, things like waterboarding and other tactics used by the US have been shown to be effective and have ZERO lasting physical effects. That being said, some people think once we capture someone we automatically stick them under the faucet. That is simply untrue. Having been involved in the capture of insurgents, I can guarantee you they are treated with the upmost respect (way, way too much in my opinion) and 99% of the time, unless they are an HVT, they get released shortly anyway to try and kill us another day.
     
  11. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    Waterboarding is unquestionably torture, favored by the Spanish inquisitors, Nazis, and the Khmer Rouge. And I would dispute just how effective it has been.

    The most skilled interrogator in history was openly disdainful of torture and physical means of interrogation. There is no question that in some cases it can be effective; though it's generally accepted that information could be obtained through other methods.

    I thought this quote from the officer who ran US interrogation efforts in Vietnam, Panama, and the first Gulf War was apt:

     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  12. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    So Jack, what lasting physical problems result from water-boarding?

    I'd fully support purely psychological means of extracting information (i.e. keeping people awake for days)

    Let's remember, terrorists aren't human beings.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  13. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    Watching teh Matt Lauer Interview with Bush this come up, and Lauer asks the former president the OBVIOUS follow up...

    transcript:

    BUSH: Yeah, that's what-- that's how I interpreted. I-- look, first of all we used this technique on three people. Captured a lot of people and used it on three. We gained value-- information to protect the country. And it was the right thing to do as far as I'm concerned.

    LAUER: So if-- if it's legal, President Bush, then if an American is taken into custody in a foreign country, not necessarily a uniformed--

    BUSH: Look, I --

    LAUER: American**--

    BUSH: I'm not gonna the issue, Matt. I, I really--

    LAUER: I'm just asking. Would it be okay for a foreign country to waterboard an American citizen?

    BUSH: It's all I ask is that people read the book. And they can reach the same conclusion. If they'd have made the same decision I made or not.


    LAUER: You'd make the same decision again today?

    BUSH: Yeah, I would.



    your honor, I'd like to present exhibit A
     
  14. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    I'd do it again too!

    And far more Americans support my view than yours HD.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  15. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They aren't? they Are PR your kind of mind set explains how people could commit genocide.

    When a group of people are viewed as sub human its easy to herd them into a gas chamber, or consontration camp.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  16. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    I'm not so sure about that.

    Torture sounds like something thats pretty unpopular. I'd put it up there with rape and murder. Its funny though, I googled "Torture Polling" and the results are all over the place. I'm sure we could both find a HOST of polls to support our views on this. But thats not the question. The question is legality. Torture is 100% illegal. David Addington and John Yoo are frickin MORONS.

    (I was balking at the legality of downloading copywritten songs in another thread, and arguing against the law...but I believe that torture and filesharing arent on the same level, its like Jaywalking and murder)
     
  17. TBradyOwnsYou

    TBradyOwnsYou 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I would make that decision every single day. American lives > terrorists.
    Also I WISH terrorists would waterboard American citizens instead of what they ACTUALLY do. What a fcking joke.

    ALSO, name me one person who was waterboarded that wasn't a terrorist.
     
  18. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What the CIA did wasn't waterboading as used by others he cited. In the case of the KR and Japanese the procedure involved forcing water down the throat of the person until the stomach is full and well check wiki if you want more detail the procedure wasn't similar to placing a towle over the head for --45 seconds and forcing nothing down the person throat.

    Dishonest or ignorant in their charactization or our interrogation techniques? Who can say.
     
  19. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    That's unpossible! The U.S. is the worst empire in the history of the world!
     
  20. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    Mine tatses like 'burning'
     

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