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GOP Debate - September 2011

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Real World, Sep 7, 2011.

  1. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Rick Perry is extremely underwhelming. Ron Paul, as much as I love him, isn't good in these types of settings. Bachman actually sounded somewhat intelligent with some of her responses, but she's got zero chance.. Mitt Romney is clearly the best shot the GOP has to win the election. The rest of the people on the stage, we have some lovely parting gifts for you.

    As of right now, and I didn't watch the whole thing, so keep that in mind, I'd say the GOP will lose if they nominate Perry. If they nominate Romney, they have a good chance. The others, exit stage left please.
  2. patsfan13

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    Amazed anyone could watch this. Romney has no chance of winning the nomination. Bach is smart but has no chance.

    Anyone with a pulse will be able to beat Obama, even the WH is projecting unemployment >9%, can't win with those numbers, the numbers will be worse if the double dip happens.
  3. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    If it's Rick Perry, I pray to God and all that is decent that you are wrong, wrong, wrong. I don't care if we have 20-percent unemployment, Perry would drive this nation into the sh*tter. He's a freaking pinhead.
  4. patsfan13

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    Which policies would be worse than the current ones?
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I totally disagree. The idea that anyone could beat Obama is foolish. Ultimately when you have an election its one candidate against the other, and a sizable portion of the voting block will base their vote on their opinion of which of those two candidates is most capable. Look no further than 2004 when everyone thought GW was beatable, and John Kerry got nominated. Do you think the then record 60+ million people voted for Bush because of how much they loved him, or because of how mortified they were of giving the presidency to John Kerry? I think it was clearly the latter. If Perry comes across as a brash, stubborn, borderline loon, then Obama will be voted in for a second term. I'm not saying Perry is that, but tonights first impression, to me, didn't help.
  6. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    It doesn't matter. Anyone who expects ANY administration to fix the economy in two years is goofy. For that matter, I'm not convinced the federal government can control what's happening economically the way things today are so globalized.
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So you believe government poicies don't affect the economy.

    WOW.
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    IIRC Bush's numbers weren't so bad the economy was having a good year due to the Tax Cuts and unemployment was about half of what we see now.

    I don't like Perry's vaccination deal but compared to imposing Obamacare it is child's play.

    Perry would be my 4th choice among the Pubs.

    If Obama is reelected the country is done there will be an economic collapse, may be one anyway because of the hole that has been dug.
  9. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    What is the profile of an Obama voter who switches to Perry or Bachmann?
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2011
  10. patsfan13

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    People who have lost a job or have friends and relatives who have lost jobs (if they are not black people who will vote for Obama no matter what), people who are worried about losing their jobs if current policies are continued.

    OI would also observe that the conservative base who was not motivated by McCain (he would have lost by more if not for Palin), is very motivated to get rid of Obama, also if you look at polling Obama is polling much lower among Latino voters and young voters. His voters were motivated last time by the 'Hope and Change" optimism, but that turned out to be empty promises and has turned into Chicago style patronage politics (ie crony capitalism). His base isn't very motivated. Further his party is worried about getting caught in a landslide. Some on the left are looking to get a primary challenger to face him, look at the recent article in Salon for example or go over to democratic underground to see the level of dissatisfaction with Obama.
  11. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey


    Logically it would seem that way. However some say that the biggest obstacle Romney faces is he is not really a big contrast from Obama. I say if he runs mostly on his economic platform he can show a contrast.

    Perry and/or Palin gives you more of a contrast but I think if he picks someone like them for VP it could work to his advantage. Either way we are in for a rough ride because the GOP does not really want the economy to improve just yet do they?
  12. patsfan13

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    The pubs aren't in a position to do anything to improve the economy.....

    BTW Romney the reason Romney isn't going to be nominated can be summarized in just 1 word ROMNEYCARE. End of Story.
  13. JackBauer

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    Having thought about it some more, I think we underestimate Perry in the GOP nomination race at our peril. As Jon Chait wrote, "His total liberation from the constraints of reason give Perry a chance to represent the Republican id in a way Romney simply cannot match."

    That sums it up better than I ever could.
  14. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I like Huntsman.
  15. JackBauer

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    I do too. Unfortunately he speaks favorably towards things like science and evolution, so he's persona non grata in today's GOP.
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Huntsman has zero chance. A Hunstman already left the race. That model was called Pawlenty.

    Perry will win primaries in states like South Carolina and Iowa probably, but he'll lose to Romney in states like NH and Florida. Tell me which states better represent the national electorate in that grouping? It's why someone like Romney would be the better bet for the GOP. I just don't know if Romney can survive the GOP primary.
  17. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Do you know anybody who fits that description? I don't.

    I'm asking about a real psychographic here, not just "somebody who lost their job." I don't think there are many people who voted Obama and switch to a Bachmann or Perry. Romney, yes. Huntsman, maybe (hard to say given how low profile he has been).


    I don't think there's much validity to the argument of motivating the GOP base. As you admit, Palin did energize GOP voters, and I think they were plenty motivated to keep Obama out of office in the first place.


    I don't need to be shown the level of dissatisfaction with Obama. I'm a dissatisfied Obama voter, plenty of other people here are, and I'm one of the people who has been trying to make you, harry and other righties understand that.

    But you're missing part of the point re Bachmann and Perry. Now, Perry may not alienate Latinos as much as other GOP possibilities given his stance on illegal immigrants -- assuming he sticks with it and it doesn't kill him, of course. But Perry and bachmann and others who are far right will motivate those disenchanted Obama voters.

    Many gays are unhappy with Obama. Think they're going to vote for Bachmann, though? Or even sit idly by while she runs against Obama? If so, I think you're delusional.

    That is the distinction I'm making. Some Obama voters almost certainly would vote for a moderate Republican. Many might not vote at all if it's a moderate running against him. But Bachmann, Perry, etc. absolutely will fire up his voting base.

    I don't like Obama very much, but the Bachmanns and Perrys of the world not only would cause me to vote for him, they'd cause me to contribute money again. And I'm somebody who would vote for Johnson and probably would vote for Huntsman were they the nominees. I know for a fact I'm not a rarity.

    ----------

    By the way, you overlooked another category: McCain / Palin voters who would turn to Obama if somebody of the more extreme right ran. You may want to deny it, but they exist, and my guess is they aren't uncommon. I have friends who aren't hardcore Republicans but tend to vote toward the right. Highly educated, successful, family men. Vaguely religious, at best. They just want things to be relatively stable, and while things have been bad for many people the past 2 years, they're doing fine, and they're doing far better than they were during the last year of the Bush administration. They probably voted for McCain for national security reasons and questions about Obama's experience, but unlike the Republicans you aluded to earlier, they held their nose while doing so due to Palin's presence.

    Put a Palin type at the head of the ticket, and these people desert the GOP. Some may not vote, but because they're responsible citizens they usually vote, and they'll vote Obama.

    Now, I don't know how many of these people there are, but they're not going to be a rarity. (Of course, the real question is how many of them there are in the half-dozen to a dozen states that are likely to be pivotal in the election.)
  18. patsfan13

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    We will see a year from Nov.


    I predicted Obama would win in May 2008 it was clear. Obama will lose and lose big in 2912 and the dems will lose the Senate also.
  19. DarrylS

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    What I find interesting in this whole discourse, is that the right is hell bent on a woman's right to choose and go through great lengths to start legislation that provide for sticking probes up their vagina's.. but give Perry a standing ovation for okaying the execution of over 230 folks in Texas...

    I find that somewhat contradictory and difficult to reconcile, particularly as some of the executions were questionable..

    Is life only sacred in the womb, or sacred for our natural life??? Pretty confident that if you were to do a longitudinal study of all prisoners on death row, that the majority of them would be unwanted children.

    This dichotomy may prove interesting as time goes on....
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2011
  20. JackBauer

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    It's all about the early states and momentum. At this rate, Perry looks to win IA, SC, NV. If he does, with Romney only winning NH, I'd have to say he's likely to win.

    Perry is also much more representative of the "anti-intellectual" type that the GOP base is looking for in a candidate.

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