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GOP debate audience cheers child labor

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Very Dickensian.

    GOP debate audience cheers child labor | The Raw Story

    The audience at Saturday night’s Republican presidential debate gave their loud seal of approval to the idea of removing restrictions on child labor.

    ...

    “I think every person up here worked at a young age,” Gingrich declared. “What I suggested was kids ought to be able to work part time in schools, particularly in the poorest neighborhoods.”

    “If you take one half of the New York janitors, who are paid more than the teachers. An entry-level janitor gets paid twice as much as an entry-level teacher. You take half those janitors, you could give lots of poor kids a work experience in the cafeteria, in the school library, in the front office, in a lot of different things. I’ll stand by the idea young people ought to learn how to work.”

    With that, the Republican audience erupted with applause.
  2. patman12

    patman12 Rookie

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    Love it, the team can use more pint sized WRs.
  3. vuudu

    vuudu Rookie

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  4. RhodyPatriot

    RhodyPatriot Rookie

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    Why is a "moderator" posting this crap on a football site??
    And let's be honest, what offends libs like Patters is not kids working but the idea of "work" in general. :D
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2011
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You're in the political discussion forum where this kind of dialog takes place. Like other smaller forums, the moderators participate in this one.

    And I think don't think its the libs who are protecting the rights of the leisure class at the expense of the middle class and poor -- it's the conservatives.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2011
  6. Wax Frog

    Wax Frog Rookie

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    The topic is still visible in the Patriots section though; vBulletin quirk? :confused:
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2011
  7. FCB02062

    FCB02062 Rookie

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    I would expect nothing less from the Grand Old Party, who stood behind a packet of ketchup constituting a serving of vegetable in school lunches....
  8. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    If measures were in place to prevent them being exploited I think the kids could benefit from it. I mowed lawns in the summer, shoveled snow in the winter and washed dishes from about the age of 12. Instead of trying to make this into a child sweat shop sounding controversy why not a sensible discussion on why he may be on to something. Work ethic is a desirable quality in a person.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2011
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What Gingrich says is in many cases is correct. Many children who are in single parent homes where the caregiver is on public assistance have never seen a household member collect a paycheck. The idea that they could start to be taught a work ethic is a very powerful idea. It would teach the value of a job.

    I went to a parochial school, dad worked mom was at home. We were required to help do light cleaning at the school, it didn't do any damage to me at all.

    Here is what he said. It is funny what the left who wants people in poverty to keep government bureaucrats employed 'servicing' the welfare imprisoned says to try and twist this attempt to help the poor in a meaningful way.

    here is what he actually says:

    Newt Gingrich wants Poor Children to Work as Janitors - YouTube
  10. VI PATS

    VI PATS Rookie

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    I don't believe he's advocating sweat shops or kids worling 40 hour weeks. I was shovelling snow and mowing lawns when I was 8, got a job selling newspapers at 11, started working in restaurant doing dishes at 14. I learned a strong work ethic.

    I believe this is missing in the OWS generation. They are used to getting trophies for participation and have never learned that life isn't fair and hard work is a great equalizer. There needs to be regulation, but I have no problem with 14 year olds having jobs at a reduced minimum wage.
  11. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Let's just call him "The Gingrich that Stole Christmas!" :D

    That song kindof writes itself, doesn't it? Especially if you're prone to get caught up in the partisan political sport of trying to make political opponents look like Satan.


    But let's take a look at the idea itself, without taking too far out of context and a statement of "opposing child labor laws"

    What's wrong with starting job-based mentoring programs at, say the age of 12?

    This could include many jobs - not just janitors -

    (though I'd guess part of the point of this sound bite apparently was also an attempt to work in just how highly paid unionized janitors can often be)

    But let's take janitors for example - they're in the school already so it's an easy program to create. Done in the right way kids could learn the value - and cost - of hard manual labor.

    There'd be ample situations in which they would need to put math and other skills to bear, measuring cleaners in water for example.

    It might also teach them that failing to work hard in school results in having a job which is hard work (and usually low pay with the exception of the unionized janitors who don't want to see such work outsourced)

    So I could see many benefits to a well structured mentoring program, employment oriented in many fields, including the "janitorial arts"

    Part of the problem in this country is that some people treat politics and government as a sport, and are quick to jump on any type of poorly worded suggestion and twist it out of context for their own political gain instead of looking closer to see if there's a good idea within that could be improved upon to actually address some of the many social, education, and economic ills.

    The goal is winning election for them - not solving problems. Thus the problems never get solved, and things get worse, not better, regarding issues and challenges that the same politicians have been talking about for decades.

    They're empowered by writers and blogger and talk show hosts that fan the flames from one political extreme to the other, empowering them and enabling them to engage in more partisan rhetoric and a continued cylcle of partisan writers taking comments out of context to make each other look like the political equivalent of the anti-Christ.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2011
  12. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    For one thing, Newt's just plain lying again.

    A New York teacher, right out of school, with a bachelor degree and no experience, starts at $45,30.00 per year.

    Starting teacher salaries range from $45,530 (bachelor’s degree, no prior teaching experience) to $74,796 (bachelor’s degree, master’s degree plus 30 credits, 7.5+ years teaching experience).
    Teachers who have a master’s degree but no teaching experience will start at $51,425.
    With annual increases plus increases for additional coursework, teachers’ salaries will rise to the current maximum of $100,049 per year over time.


    http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/EDDB658C-BE7F-4314-85C0-03F5A00B8A0B/0/salary.pdf

    A school custodian, starting out as a "custodial laborer" can expect a starting salary of $21,706.00. A "head custodian" can expect $27,706.00.

    https://jobs.elmiracityschools.com/JobPosting.aspx?JPID=371

    http://www.educationjobsite.com/job.asp?id=40438237&aff=AC44BA2E-E3EB-4DBC-8BDB-9FCE01C58B09

    There are some "custodial jobs" in the NY City school system which offer salaries of $80,000.00. They require a college degree, HVAC knowledge, supervisory skills and experience. It is also not a salary offered to beginners.

    Nice, Newt. More BS.
  13. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    Any issue with child actors? Or do we only have issue with poor kids working try to help their family.

    Kids work in lots of things, paper routes, fast food, I worked at Cedar Pointe and little kids worked there...

    What criteria is ok for kids to work?
  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    What a joke of a thread. Child labor? :rolleyes: I think most people in the real world have worked to some degree since they were 10, 12 or maybe 15. Whether it was a paper route, shoveling snow, or what have you. It's actually a good thing. I learned the value of a dollar at a young age, and I'm incredibly gratefull for that. Nice try though Frauders. ;)
  15. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    I don't think anyone really is objecting to children learning a "work ethic," although I think it's probably more important, in the young years, to develop a "learning ethic," which some schools and some parents seem to be having some trouble doing.

    I'd not have a problem with a child, who wanted to and whose parents consented to it, shadowing a janitor or a secretary for some period of time - learning some rudimentary skills and getting their feet wet in a work world.

    I do, however, object to the idea of "replacing" adult workers with child labor - especially at the "reduced rate." What message does that send the child? "Here ya go, Joey-Boy. You're gonna do the same dam job but we don't have to pay you the same amount coz you're a kid and you got no rights." We're going to expect the kid to work so he can "help pay the bills at home," but we're not going to pay him an adequate bill-paying wage?

    And what about a few years down the line? Little Joey's not done much school work, most of what he's done is janitor. Little Janie's got some great telephone answering skills, but her math sucks and she doesn't know where Texas is at on a map.....but now that they're adults, all the janitor jobs and the receptionist jobs are being done by the new little kids - and there are no more "adult" jobs that they've been trained to do.

    If Newt is truly concerned with helping teach the "work ethic," why not give Little Joey's father the job? Or Janie's mother? Why not say you're going to hire only unemployed parents of students? That way the kid's got an instant "role model," and the parent's got a job and everyone's happy.

    And what about the janitors and receptionists that are being replaced by children? What about them? Now we're got more adults out of work - that'll sure help the economy, won't it?

    My brother-in-law was a sheet metal worker for 25 years in the Midwest and got laid off. There are no more sheet metal jobs in Indiana. After being unemployed for almost 4 years, he got a job as a janitor at the school where his oldest son teachs and his daughter-in-law is the principal. And yes, they helped him get the job. He makes minimum wage, maybe a little bit more. He works midnights - he works hard. He's more than a bit ashamed and embarassed because he used to coach the high school football team at the same school and people look at you differently when you're holding a mop and cleaning up puke than they do when you're throwing a victory party in your back yard. But he's supporting his wife and helping with his youngest kids college again. It's not what he was trained to do, and it's far less than he's capable of doing and it's way less money than he's used to making - but he's got a job and he's proud of it.

    Now Newt wants to lay him off again and he just told the world that a 10 year old can do his job for less money?

    Give me a break.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2011
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No one's objecting to kids working. There are all sorts of jobs for kids; you cited a few, and let's not leave out home chores. But, perhaps we disagree where to draw the line. You obviously feel that we can get rid of janitorial staff and hire kids. I see a lot of wrong with that. Perhaps in the nineteenth century, factory owners would have celebrated your views. Think a kid could do parts of your job? It would save your boss a lot of money.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2011
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    An Idle Mind Is The Devils Workshop:

    I went to work when I was 13.

    Kids have energy, work is good for them it teaches self reliance, get them off the street it might make them too tired to kill each other.

    We don't want our kids to be worked like the Liberals Beloved Third World Sh!t Holes work them (slavery) but a decent job with a wage that they earn themselves is the best thing oin the world for them.

    If I was in that audiance I too would have cheered and whistled.

    Are kids are better off "gang banging" and selling dope.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2011
  18. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    And how many of your kids and grandkids did the same, Harry?

    Coz that's what you really wanted for them, right? Screw school - get a job.
  19. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They worked after school, my boys were just like me, they were not interested in college, they both have done very well, my oldest is a Retired Fire Fighter Captain with a good pension my other son is an Electrician, they both worked hard for all the things they have, but I don't knock a good education the problem is today everybody is a college grad, doesn't that make it harder for them to find "the big job" isn't the competition to great, I wanted my kids to go the college route they chose not to.

    I see nothing at all wrong with a kid going to work in the afternoon when school gets out, nothing, responsibility is one of the best things a young mind can learn, work at an early age can teach them that.

    Work Is An Education.
  20. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My kids played sports in HS and worked weekends and at a consignment shop all through HS.

    The kids are still friends with the owner and she gave them great recommendations when they went for their first full time jobs after college.

    They were on the deans list and one got a combo scholarship for softball and academics at a Div 1 school. She used that to earn her way through school, playing Div 1 ball was a full time job, but she was on the deans list, was team captain and had a job 6 months before she graduated.

    Thanks for asking.


    My grandson is 2 we put him to work picking up his toys before he can get his grapes. We are very mean grandparents.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2011

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