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Good read on the Patriots Pass Rush

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Ian, May 13, 2013.

  1. Ian

    Ian Administrator Staff Member

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    Doug Kyed at NESN.com has a good take on the Patriots pass rush, and threw out some stats I hadn't realized:

    It will be interesting to see how Jamie Collins ends up being used, or if Jermaine Cunningham or Jake Bequette can ultimately emerge into being productive players - although Cunningham is clearly the biggest question mark and is obviously in a make or break type of year.
    Last edited: May 13, 2013
  2. ALP

    ALP Rookie

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    Sounds like he is referring to outside rushers though, and believes Cunningham may only have potential inside, it's not like our interior pass rushers are very good, but Cunningham may be able to spell them effectively

    Now we need to find an outside guy to do the same
  3. doesntmatter1

    doesntmatter1 Rookie

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    I feel that we had an even swap of carter with jones in the power rush department, but we didn't find a replacement for the speed rush mark anderson brought to the table. Mark anderson ran the arc pretty well and after looking at many clips the only people that look suited to do the same are michael buchannon and jason vega.
  4. VrabelJr

    VrabelJr Rookie

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    Great points and I certainly agree. Pass rushing is done by committee. Look at the Giants who are consistently 3-5 players deep at DE (JPP, Tuck, Osi, Kiwanuka, Tollefson in recent years). I think the issue we're facing right now for that third DE spot is a veteran who is OK with not being a starter. I can't see Freeney checking his ego and Abraham has a lot of interest.
  5. VrabelJr

    VrabelJr Rookie

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    I think Buchanon is another power rusher. He will be great a back up (in time hopefully) for Chandler.
  6. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    Move your eyes away from outside to the DL position and you'll find the real problem with NE's pass rush. When both interior rush guys couldn't even break camp in 2012, I knew it was going to be a long year. Frankly, I thought they did pretty well considering. If Armstead and Kelly can bring something to the table, I think fans will be surprised at how much more effective those DEs look. Even more so if the secondary keeps up how they finished 2012, freeing up the LBs to rush the gaps a little more.
  7. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    IMO, it will be interesting to see if Armstead and Kelly, given their backgrounds, one gap more than Wilfork normally would have in 2011 and 2012.
  8. Benjamin Brady

    Benjamin Brady Banned

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    The interesting thing for me has been over the last few years we've add so much versatility to our base defense going back and forth between the 4-3 and 3-4 fronts offering over, under and stack formations. That has been an advantage for us in the early downs. Then you look at the sub packages and we've actually become less versatile. We're almost always in a 4-2 nickel and 4-1 dime.

    Adding Collins to rush from DE, OLB, ILB and Armstead who can DE, DT will allow us to add some much needed versatility to our sub packs in the form of 3-3, 3-2, 2-4, 2-3 formations.
  9. Benjamin Brady

    Benjamin Brady Banned

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    Interesting article about Buchanan being the steal of the draft by yahoo sports.

    Y! SPORTS

    Something interesting about this is speculation by Greg Bedard early in FA was we want to sign Michael Johnson and that is a player many have compared Buchanan to.

    Johnson - Michael Johnson | Georgia Tech, DE : 2009 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

    Buchanan - Michael Buchanan | Illinois, DE : 2013 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile
  10. patriot lifer

    patriot lifer Rookie

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    The pass rush that we had in 2011 was the best we've had in a while, but the defense as a whole was probably not as good as they were in 2010 or 2012. IMO our defense was better last year than in 2011 (going by eyeball test and some basic stats). The same goes for the 2010 unit, which had the most interceptions in the NFL. It's interesting (and easy) to focus on Mark Anderson and Carter in 2011, but we've done A-OK without their contributions. And as a whole, the defense has probably been better since they left (not to suggest that they were bad).

    Looking at this very simply: have we improved over the prior year?

    DE - Same players as last season, but year 2 improvements out of Jones and Francis. Cunningham in a contract year. We might not think the world of Cunningham or Francis, but they will continue to be contributors and should be better than the prior year.

    DT - Same players as last season, but add a passrusher in Kelly and a wildcard in Armstead. We were way too thin at DT last year. These additions are very much welcomed. I hope they work out.


    No seismic shifts in our defensive line, but it should be solid like they were last year. The front seven in general is not short of talent. We have a very talented and solid linebacking corps between Hightower, Spikes, Mayo, Fletcher (??), and Collins. Fletcher's undrafted (and rarely plays) but they're otherwise all first or second rounders.
  11. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Half of our DT's are new to the team. That rates as a seismic shift to me.

  12. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    I too agree that for a good pass rush you need at least three legs. One of which MUST BE and interior pass rusher, else the QB can escape by stepping up into the pocket. This has been the main problem ever since Richard Seymour left. Plus you need a spare or two to prevent an injury collapse such as occured in the second half of the AFCCG.

    Overall the Pats annual sack statistics have been slowly climbing from attrocious levels in the mid high 20s, when the rebuild began, to the mid low 30s currently. But good pass rushing clubs, register 40 or more sacks per season, and great sack clubs can get to the 50 mark.

    There is another important statistic often overlooked. The Patriots Defense has consistently been a league leader in collecting turnovers. This is usually a sign of two things, both talent and team speed.

    A single good interior pocket collapser can accumulate say 5-8 sacks, enough to close the gap to 40 or more sacks per season. When Fanene and Pryor both were hurt, plans for the improved 2012 interior pass rush fizzled. Now it is Kelly, Armstead and Cunninghams turn to see if they can generate those missing 5-8 interior sacks.

    I predict that they will, and suddenly the secondary will seem much less porous. It may even breakout, and become a strength, with all the talent sent to it. If it does so, the Patriot Defense should be set for half a decade or more, since it is so young everywhere, with the singular exception of Adrian Wilson who was imported for quite another reason.
  13. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    DE/OLB

    We have Ninkovich, Jones, Collins and Buchanan.

    How many of Francis, Bequette or Vega will/should make the team?

    Obviously, we could use a free agent instead of this group.

    I have Cunningham making the team because of his positional flexibility and experience. He played pretty well last year. I now list him as the 5th DT (competing with Forston for a roster spot).

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