Good News! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

[BrewCity Cheesehead]

Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

Kessler obviously has ulterier motives in these negotiations. I think he's trying to intentionally drag out the negotiations. The longer the lockout goes on, the more he makes a name for himself. And of course he's making loads of money for every day the lockout continues. On top of that, I get the feeling that De Smith has been trying to give the impression that he's a hard*** ever since he took over for Gene Upshaw, but I think he's starting to realize, these last couple weeks, that playing the tough guy isn't the best tactic is this instance.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

I've read some of what Kaplan and Eisen have to say about Kessler, and it's not even in the same ballpark as the stuff Florio spews. Kaplan actually seems to find some of Kessler's ideas interesting, and, without endorsing them, helps explain some of the business logic behind even the more radical ones like an NFL where every player is a free agent after every year. Eisen is wary of the guy, it would seem, but still, I haven't heard anything from him that even remotely resembles the conspiracy-theory-level stuff Florio's saying about the guy.

I never said Kaplan disagrees with Kessler's assessment on the whole that a free market NFL would be a good thing. He agrees with some ideas and disagrees with others. From my understanding, he generally thinks though that it would be a bad thing for lower tiered players, but he does see some benefits.

The issue and point at hand, is that he thinks Kessler agenda is to push the court case to the final judgement to get to the free market NFL. He might not have voiced that Kessler is trying to sandbag the meetings or even believe it, but he has voiced that Kessler has been a proponent of pushing the antitrust suit to conclusion.

As for these guys vs. Florio, even if they whole heartily agree with Florio, they wouldn't voice it like him. Florio runs a rumor site which means he can talk about things he hears that are not properly supported with independent verification which is required by most media people. So he can use more information to support his assertions (although the information might not be good) than either Eisen or Kaplan can.

 

[BlueThunder]

Not sure what invalidating the franchise tags does for the players other than getting the owners ticked off.....and creating more money for the lawyers by dragging things out further....

 

[Joker]

I said it at the start...and I'll say it again...we'll be lucky to see half a bastardized "season" this year by the time these scumbags get through with this dog and pony show...

 

[BlueThunder]

I sure hope you're wrong JO......

Someone should grab the lawyers by the nutz and throw them out until the document is ready to be written..:rocker:

 

[BlueThunder]

Spotted at today's meeting.....Goodell, Mara, Abitane and on the players side: Smith, Saturday, Foxworth, Morey, Waters, Berthelsen, Quinn, DePaso, McFarland, and Berens....

Good News:... Patriots owner Robert Kraft, Chiefs owner Clark Hunt and Cowboys owner Jerry Jones were in attendance.

Judge Arthur Boylan also was there.....

Let's see what comes out of this....with the Judge there and some key owners, maybe the BS will be put aside and progress towards a conclusion can be made.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

I sure hope you're wrong JO......

Someone should grab the lawyers by the nutz and throw them out until the document is ready to be written..:rocker:

Not possible. Castration is a requirement to pass a bar exam.

 

[BlueThunder]

Not possible. Castration is a requirement to pass a bar exam.

:ugh: How could I have forgotten that ?

 

[lamafist]

But the story of the owners holding things up and the deal would have been done if not because of the owners is the same thing as this article. Just the other side of the argument. Either you dismiss both stories or you accept both stories.

I agree that most of it is opinion, but there are some nuggets in there to support the opinions. It does make sense though since Kessler is pushing for a free market NFL.

As I said both sides are probably making selfish demands. I have said both sides have been roadblocks in getting a deal done. I just think most people on both sides want a deal, but want it on their terms. I think Kessler wants a court decision.

The two "stories" aren't even remotely equivalent. One story doesn't say much more than that the deal isn't done because one of the sides isn't satisfied with the terms -- which is borderline tautology -- and the other is conspiracy theory about how one lawyer is going against the explicit wishes of his clients to get a deal done and tank the negotiations, railroading the entire 'class' of the class-action suit into a self-destructive stand-off that could cost them $5 billion dollars, out of some nebulous agenda to go down in history as the guy who remodeled the NFL (apparently at the expense of the current crop of players, i.e. his clients.)

The first story doesn't say anything we didn't already know -- we heard reports of a proposed structure for a deal coming out of recent negotiations, the deal was discussed at the owners meetings, and now the two sides are back at the negotiation table, both saying that no deal is imminent. Clearly, there are aspects that needs some work before the owners can all get behind it. This is neither out of the ordinary, or particularly objectionable. It's what they're supposed to be doing, actually. If they weren't trying to use the players' urgency to get a deal done to get a few more concessions, they'd be doing it wrong. None of the owners have publicly left the reservation; they all appear committed to continuing to work towards a resolution.

Florio expresses it in a more inflammatory way, because that's what he does. But he's not telling use anything we didn't already hear from other sources. That's not true with the Kessler stuff -- he's the only one I know of accusing anyone of trying to sabotage the negotiations.

I never said Kaplan disagrees with Kessler's assessment on the whole that a free market NFL would be a good thing. He agrees with some ideas and disagrees with others. From my understanding, he generally thinks though that it would be a bad thing for lower tiered players, but he does see some benefits.

The issue and point at hand, is that he thinks Kessler agenda is to push the court case to the final judgement to get to the free market NFL. He might not have voiced that Kessler is trying to sandbag the meetings or even believe it, but he has voiced that Kessler has been a proponent of pushing the antitrust suit to conclusion.

As for these guys vs. Florio, even if they whole heartily agree with Florio, they wouldn't voice it like him. Florio runs a rumor site which means he can talk about things he hears that are not properly supported with independent verification which is required by most media people. So he can use more information to support his assertions (although the information might not be good) than either Eisen or Kaplan can.

Going into the lockout, we knew that Kessler's role was never going to be the conciliator -- he's a bulldoggish radical voice. He's a guy you keep around to show that you're prepared to go to the mattresses.

That's a far cry from accusing him of malfeasance. If what Florio says is remotely accurate, what he's doing would be gross legal malpractice. I understand that Eisen and Kaplan are never going to wander as far out on a limb as Florio would, but I don't see much indication that they have any private inclination to. If they've written anything that suggests they think Kessler would violate the declared interests of his clients, I haven't seen it. Just saying that his druthers would be to take this thing to court doesn't really mean anything because he's just counsel -- it's not his call.

 

[NEPats1]

Freeman with the latest update:

The owners are wrecking negotiations

At the beginning of the labor talks, when negotiations were ongoing in Washington, which seems like a galaxy far, far away, I heard from several player sources that owners were playing games during the discussions. The sides would reach a verbal agreement on a part of a new CBA in the morning and then the owners would change their minds and the numbers in the evening. It went this way several times, I'm told.

Those types of games, players familiar with the talks explained, later ceased, and that's when talks took a signifcant positive turn with some sources believing several weeks ago that a deal was 80 percent done and a new CBA was on the horizon. That optimism remained until Thursday.


The NFL will disagree with this. And there is certainly room for debate and the owners will say this is simply negotiating. But in a series of text messages from several sources familair with Thursday's discussions, players say the owners are back to their old tricks.

Again, the NFL will deny this, but I believe it is the owners who are destroying this round of talks, even as the two sides are extremely close. I believe the sources that tell me owners are playing mind games with the players: getting their optimism up and then down hoping the players cave out of frustration.

The players held a conference call on Thursday to discuss the events.

Here's the good news: talks havent broken off. The two sides are still negotiating.

Overall, this was a bad day. That doesn't mean a good day won't soon come but this was not great. I get the feeling despite dealing with owner games in the past, this day caught the players by surprise.

A deal still gets done to save the season, I believe, but as the last media optimist standing, I'm about to leave the room.

Stay tuned. More to come.


The owners are wrecking negotiations - CBSSports.com

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Freeman with the latest update:

Great job , Kraft , jones and others hope you enjoy the empty stadiums come fall because no deal in 2 weeks that is what we are looking at.... the owners have been the root of this process all along, even though D smith is a terrible leader at least the players are willing to try...

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Great job , Kraft , jones and others hope you enjoy the empty stadiums come fall because no deal in 2 weeks that is what we are looking at.... the owners have been the root of this process all along, even though D smith is a terrible leader at least the players are willing to try...

I'm sure that Bob Kraft's Patriot Place business partners have impressed on him the urgent need to have bodlies flocking to Gillette Stadium, yes even for summer camp. I'm sure that he sold them on PP on this very basis, including training camp crowds.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Freeman with the latest update:

Can't say I'm surprised.

 

[supafly]

Can't say I'm surprised.

Honestly, I don't know what the hell to think anymore. All last week I was very optimistic. I was even one of the lucky few to get through to Ticketmaster in the single game barrage of web and phone orders for the Pittsburgh game on Oct.30th. Now, I am getting more than annoyed. We don't know who to believe, who's more at fault, or even IF there's going to be a season anymore.

On a side note, Miami started a marketing technique today that offers season tickets at 250 dollars (8 reg season + 2 preseason). That's 25 bucks a game for season tickets, so they can make interest off of the fans' money. Excuse the pun, but this seems 'fishy' to me, especially considering that it came out today after the entire week of negative reports, and major pessimism. I hope the 2 issues are purely coincidental, and do not relate to each other. 25 bucks a ticket for an NFL game seems incredible strange. I'm hoping they aren't just planning on making interest money on the fans' orders, with pretty good inside info that they will have to give the money back in 3-4 months. That's still a whole lotta interest money to be made in the meantime.

 

[NEPats1]

Silver with the latest update:

Sources: 'Bizarre' twists stifle NFL labor talks - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Silver's account seems fairly balanced and underscores what I've said all along...the devil is in the details. Some owners still want certain expense credits and thought that was agreed to when the 48% all revenue split was proposed. Some on the players side didn't see it that way and others are now even trying to claim ticket sales tax and non football revenue like concerts was included in their 48% of total revenue split offer... Each side is accusing the other of bait and switch and each side appears to have provocateurs in their midst who either don't want a fair deal done or don't yet feel sufficient sense of urgency to hammer one out. Breer was right all along, they haven't yet exactly agreed on the split. And everything else flows from that agreement.

The good news is they talked into the wee hours last night and will resume talking again shortly...so no one has walked away in a huff. The bad news is the court ordered seal of confidentiality seems to be leaking like a sieve under intense media pressure and Boylan doesn't seem to be able to enforce it with this group any better than a mere mediator could. That says a lot about the breadth of egos and self absorbtion rampant in both camps. Gives playing at the NFL level a whole new meaning... The courts like the fans are just along for the ride. Which only underscores why this fight doesn't really belong there.

I really don't care how long it takes them to get it right. I just want them to get it right for a decade so I don't have to live through this crap again any time soon. I do hope all the shake hands and get back to work while the details get hammered out crowd now understands once and for all why that was never going to happen.

 

[Rob0729]

Silver with the latest update:

Sources: 'Bizarre' twists stifle NFL labor talks - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

I agree with MoLewis that it seems to be a balanced piece. It pretty much points to both sides being unreasonable at least according to the other side.

I think it is crap that the owners are changing the parameters of the revenue split at this point of the game. They also are wrong to ask for all the legacy funds to come out of the players' side. I personally think it should be a split somewhere. The breakdowns of this week definitely has a share in them.

I think it is ridiculous that the players are asking for ridiculous things like 48% of sales tax and a percentage of all stadium revenues including non-football related events like concerts and other sporting events. On a side note, I wonder if they wanted percentage of all Patriot Place revenues. I'm sure Kraft hit the roof when they asked for a percentage of all in stadium revenues for the Revolution even if they didn't include Patriot Place.

The article also supports the original premise of this thread that there is a belief that Kessler (along with Quinn) are trying to derail the the process to go back to litigating the antitrust case. Since we have established in this thread that sources opinions are news, it is fair to state that. That said, the talk Kessler had before this week's meeting in context may not have been an example of his derailing the process based on this report. I admit I may have been wrong there. Although I still agree with the owners that I think he wants this brought back into the legal process over the negotiation.

As I said all along, there are a lot of bad guys in this process. IMHO, Kessler is the biggest bad guy at least up until this week. The owners with their lawyers may be quickly catching up to Kessler if they are throwing in last minute significant changes in the revenue sharings.

That said, I still think a deal will be done by the end of next week. Even with all this crap, they are still talking and putting in marathon sessions. I don't think either side really wants to miss any preseason games. As Chris Mortensen said, he has spoken to several experienced negotiators of deals of this magnitude and they said that many times right before the big breakthrough, one side or both sides will start taking things off the table or changing the parameters which makes the deal look to be going south only to come to an agreement shortly after. I guess it may be a negotiating tactic to see how far the other side is willing to go.

 

[BlueThunder]

Dam...I hope you're right Rob....

 

[DaBruinz]

Great job , Kraft , jones and others hope you enjoy the empty stadiums come fall because no deal in 2 weeks that is what we are looking at.... the owners have been the root of this process all along, even though D smith is a terrible leader at least the players are willing to try...

Yes, because the owners should have to eat the taxes on the tickets and the players shouldn't...

 

[Rob0729]

Dam...I hope you're right Rob....

Well, they did negotiate for 16 hours yesterday and were back in the building at 8AM this morning. If things were going downhill to the point that things were falling apart, no way would they put in those hours.