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Good News! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Rob0729, Jun 28, 2011.

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  1. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The man won't be happy until the stars of the league make $50 million a year while players on the bottom of the roster work for minimum wage and practice squad players are unpaid interns.

    He met with the players today and basically told them not to be flexible in negotiations.

    Part of me wants this arse to get his way and derail the negotiations so the players will can his arse. As Florio pointed out, Kessler needs to realize that he works for the players and the players don't work for him.

    Lawyers are trying to persuade players to stand firm | ProFootballTalk
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2011
  2. Deus Irae

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    When did telling the players not to cave somehow morph into an attempt at sabotaging the talks?

    Lawyers are trying to persuade players to stand firm | ProFootballTalk
  3. Rob0729

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    C'mon, what is this guy your uncle? He totally overstepped his bounds as an attorney. It isn't his job to tell the clients what they should do. He is an employee of the players, not the other way around. Every time he gets involved in the process, things go wrong.

    Evidence is there. Even Smith knows the guy is a problem to get things done and whenever he gets taken out of the process he tries blow things up like leaking the Osi Umenyora affadavit. Now since he doesn't seem to be able to control Smith from working to get a deal done, it looks like he is trying to get the players to reject the deal.

    Kessler has wanted to take an antitrust suit to the brink and bring a free market NFL for nearly a decade. If he can accomplish that, then he will do it for the NBA. And then he can retire a very wealthy man while he watches those sports implode.

    You did miss this quote:

    And of course you already dismissed this part of a previous reports:

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/15/the-lawyers-get-the-boot-again/
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2011
  4. ausbacker

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    That's what it seems like even from the other side of the world.
  5. Deus Irae

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    Actually, telling his clients that they shouldn't cave is precisely what the job of the attorney is, if he feels that's their best move.

    Also, I didn't miss any quotes. You're taking Florio's editorial comments and acting as if they have true news value. You've allowed your hard bias in favor of the owners to completely overwhelm your judgment.
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2011
  6. Frick

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    Can't we all just get a bong - Tommy Chong
  7. Rob0729

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    So Adam Schefter reporting what went on when Smith had to admonish and toss Kessler and Quinn for trying to derail the porcess is Florio's editorial ccomments? So when the facts are against you, they are just opinion. Yes, the timing of the release of is Florio's opinion, but the Kessler trying to derail the meetings and Smith having to admonish Kessler is fact or at least as much as any report.

    As for this meeting, it seems pretty clear Kessler isn't getting what he wants from Smith and he is trying to use the players to force Smith to reject the current framework and proceed with this case. Reading what is on the table right now, the players are not caving. The 90% rule alone is a huge victory for the players (I gave an example in another thread how the Bucs abused the LTBE bonus loophole to save $25 million that they never paid out in real dollars which would be and that loophole would be pretty much closed under this rule). Unless the owners take the current framework off the table right now, any offer the players accept would not be caving. The current deal is fair for both sides and requires a sacrifice of both sides. Kessler clearly doesn't agree.
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2011
  8. Triumph

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    Kessler has been a problem from the very beginning.
  9. BlueThunder

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    DI takes the contrarian side to alot of arguments..it's his nature...

    The truth shall set him free ...... ;)
  10. DaBruinz

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    So, because Florio gave proper reference to his source (Adam Schefter) , your claim is that his comments are "editorial" in nature?

    Lockout: Talks 'almost blew up' Tuesday, source says - ESPN

    Here you go Deus, right from ESPN. Schefter's article.

    The lawyers hadn't been involved and lots of progress had been made when they were let back into the negotiations. And within hours, they got tossed. Clearly there is an issue with the NFLPA Lawyers.

    The only one allowing his bias to completely overwhelm his judgement is you. As you have done throughout the process..
  11. Shelterdog

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    Anyone ever seen a cop show? They're blatantly using Kessler as the bad cop. It's negotiation 102.
  12. ausbacker

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    Maybe the NFL owners should send in Zdeno. He's already ***** slapped one Kesler/Kessler this June :D.
  13. ctpatsfan77

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    Nah, send Brad Marchand. :D
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2011
  14. NEPats1

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    Florio has been speculating since the lawyers got kicked out, Kessler has been leaking stuff to get the sides pissed off at each other, like this:

    Leak of Umenyiora affidavit raises some intriguing questions | ProFootballTalk


    and

  15. townes

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    I would be completely in favor of the players firing Kessler because he has his own agenda aside from what is best for the players, but Deus is right, it is the job of an attorney to give the client their best advice. Whether or not the advice is the best or just Kessler deferring to his own agenda but he does have a responsibility to tell the players what he believes their best course of action is.


    Personally i think Kessler is dead wrong and the players have been doing the right thing in being reasonable and trying to come up with a fair deal for all, and I would be willing to bet Jeffrey Pash is telling the owners to stand their ground and not give in, just as Kessler is doing, and that's why all the movement takes place when they are not in the room.
  16. patfanken

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    Dead wrong Townsie, It is the Lawyers responsibility to give the client advise that is to the CLIENT'S benefit. not his OWN. You say it yourself later in your post that you think Kessler is giving the players BAD advise. CLEARLY, T. this guy has a SPECIFIC agenda that covers 2 separate sports. An agenda that obviously conflicts with the best interests of his CURRENT clients.
  17. peterforpats

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    i find it hard to believe with all the brilliant inside legal and football knowledge this board provides that everything hasn't been settled by now. i hope everyone continues to provide such expertise when the season does start -idon't think the NEP can win or even function without them.:mad:
  18. townes

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again


    Ken, that's exactly what I said. It is the lawyers responsibility to give the client the best advice they can, the question is whether Kessler is doing that or pursuing his own agenda. I think Kessler has his own agenda but the claim by another poster that lawyers shouldn't give clients their best advice is way off base.


    Jeff Pash has been telling the owners to play hardball with the players for years and constructed illegal deals so they could do just that, yet none of you call for his head, the hypocrisy is astounding. It is not just players counsel who have been causing the problems in this dispute the blame goes to both sides, that's why the most movement takes place when they aren't there.
  19. BlueThunder

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    Does anyone here think that putting Kessler and Pash in a room to negotiate the CBA would get it done?

    My bet is there wouldn't be any 2011 football season....

    But there WOULD be a ton of billable hours...

    JMHO so don't shoot me...
  20. A.C Vegas

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    I don't think the lawyers want this it end at all they want the money just like the owners and players. The ones who are taking roughly and with out and lube is the Fans plain and simple.

    I wish there was a fans "union" that has at least some say in this to get the process done
  21. Rob0729

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    I think Kessler served a useful purpose for the players at one point in the process. His agenda and pitbull style definitely helped to play chicken with the owners to get them to make concessions.

    Now though he is a roadblock to getting a deal done. The guy seems to only have one gear and it is attack. He has this Machiavellian idea of a free market NFL and cannot let it go even if it goes against his client's best interest and/or wishes.

    Gene Upshaw did a very good job keeping him from ruining the process with his agenda, Smith has not been as effective.

    If there is not a deal done in the next two weeks, most likely it will be in significant part due to Kessler and Quinn. They really don't seem to be on board with what the players want and put their own agendas ahead of their clients' desires.
  22. Deus Irae

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    Schefter didn't give details on what was going on. You're reading into what happened because you have an anti-player bias and you've seized upon the lawyers as your lead villains.

    This is purely speculation on your part, and it's likely that it's incorrect.

    1.) You have no idea what the current deal is

    2.) There was a scheduled meeting with the players and the lawyers, as opposed to the lawyers going behind the backs of the players. This is more likely to mean that the lawyers had Smith's blessing than that they did not.

    3.) While I'm glad to see that you're on board with me about the way teams were manipulating the salary cap, it's old news. In fact, it would be one reason why the attorneys would be smart to tell the players not to cave, since they could point to that as an example of how the owners were taking advantage of quirks of the last CBA, and argue that such examples are why the players should stay firm until even the minute details are ironed out.

    4.) The 90% isn't a 'victory' when you're giving up hundreds of millions on the other hand and the rest of the deal isn't set. It's only a 'victory' when it becomes part of a package that's both acceptable and sound, so giving in before that happens is, indeed, caving. Your definition of what caved means is a unique one, though, so I'll give you points for re-inventing the word.
  23. Tunescribe

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    :enranged::violent::deadhorse::scream::steamed:
  24. Rob0729

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    LOL! Did you read DaBruinz post where he quoted Schefter specifically said that Kessler and Quinn was the problem and Smith had to tell them to stand down? I'll post it again:


    Lockout: Talks 'almost blew up' Tuesday, source says - ESPN

    Of course any unbiased person would read this and see that Kessler and Quinn were being cordial and agreeable and Smith needed to pull them out of there because the evil owners were taking advantage of their good nature.:rolleyes:

    Seriously, any unbiased person would read that piece and believe what I said. They would disagree with you. The report doesn't say that the owners had to have their lawyers "stand down". Besides, Kessler has a long history of this from back when Upshaw was alive. There is plenty history backing up my assertions of Kessler.

    Come clean! You really are Michael Felger. I swear you posts are his thoughts word for word. I don't get why you hate that guy because I swear you guys are the same person.

    BTW, I will get to the rest of your post later when I have time. I am not avoiding it.
  25. Rob0729

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    I don't know what the details are, but I like most of the people who follow it have a very good idea what the framework is. They already laid it out. I guarantee you the final CBA will not be much different than the framework laid out to the owners last week.

    Even if it was a meeting with Smith's blessing, he might not have known that Kessler would throw a wedge in the process to try to keep the antitrust deal alive (BTW, speculations is that the meeting today is to settle the suit since no players and owners are there and Judge Boland is reported to be there.


    If Kessler was talking to the rank and file, why would he be giving this speech. Their elected representatives are the ones negotiating the deal. The general player only votes on the final deal and Kessler shouldn't be advising the rank and file on what to do only the negotiating members.


    The 90% is absolutely a victory! The players were going to have to give up a percentage of the revenue. That was a given, the 90% is a big concession from the owners in return. Going into this process, the owners were trying to reduce the percentage of revenue the players were getting and the players were going to try to minimize the loss. Getting the 90% rule is a huge victory in that end because teams can't cheat the cap by spending far less than the salary minimum, but be over the cap with creative accounting like the Bucs who were $25 million under the salary floor eventhough they were techincally at the salary floor.
  26. BlueThunder

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  27. Deus Irae

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    1.) I don't see any of DaBruinz' posts.

    2.) Telling his attorneys to stand down does not mean that they were the problem.

    You want to speculate because you have a bias against the players. Calling me out because I won't do that is nothing more than trying to change the focus from where it should be (Your bias leading to that lousy O.P.) and onto me via personal comments that have nothing to do with the issue at hand.
  28. Deus Irae

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    Re: Good New! Jeffrey Kessler is trying to sabotage the talks again

    Would these be the same "most people" that thought the deal was coming in days?

    And again, you're just speculating in a way to support your bias and your portrayal of Kessler as the uber villain.

    Kessler is the attorney. Part of their job is to discuss the situation with their clients and to offer their opinion on what should (or should not) be done. This is basic stuff. For you to act as if telling a client not to cave is some horrible plot by the attorney is simply ridiculous.

    90% is nothing if the rest of the deal blows and undercuts it. At that point, it becomes a loss. In order to talk about 'victory', you need the entire CBA set so that you can judge by all the provisions working together. You're smart enough to know this.
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2011
  29. BlueThunder

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    One has to wonder how DaBuinz made it onto DI's ignore list? :confused:
  30. Deus Irae

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    Lockout: Four days of NFL talks beginning today, sources say - ESPN

    Smart words that one would possibly expect, sensibly, to come about after an attorney talked to his client about not caving.

    Lockout: Four days of NFL talks beginning today, sources say - ESPN

    If that is true, it might be that your 90% wasn't even considered enough of a 'victory' on that one issue in the first place.
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2011
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