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Good news for the Pats if there is an uncapped year

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Rob0729, Dec 7, 2009.

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  1. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It was missed yesterday, but the league has announced that if there is an uncapped year, they are reducing revenue sharing by $100 million a year. This is big for the Pats because they are one of the teams that contributes quite a bit to that $100 million.

    With it looking that in an uncapped year it is going to be much like baseball where there will be as many teams looking to cut payroll as spend freely (probably many more looking to cut payroll), the Pats may have a real advantage in free agency next year.

    Granted this will most likely get to the better goal of forcing the NFLPA to make concessions on things like a rookie salary cap to avoid this. The NFLPA are really facing disaster if there is not a capped year with a lot of free agents getting crappy deals because there will be a lot of teams trying to dump salary.

    NFL to cut smaller revenue sharing - NFL- nbcsports.msnbc.com
  2. Snarf

    Snarf Rookie

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    Feels a little cheap to get good players due to a lame technical advantage though, doesn't it?

    Sort of like "wow, the Yankees won, what an amazing accomplishment".

    I'd much rather we win on equal terms as everyone else.
  3. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If there is a CBA next year the Patriots will have more losses. With no CBA Mankins and Ghost are Restricted Free Agents (RFAs) and under Patriots control. With a CBA they become Unrestricted Free Agents, it is never good to let probowl players in their prime walk.
  4. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    FYPFY. The NFLPA is apparently willing to sell players like Mankins and Ghost down the river if necessary to avoid an uncapped year.
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Personally, do not trust an uncapped year... may lead to chaos... teams like the Redskins, come to mind.. if he could Snyder would become the next Steinbrenner.
  6. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Uncapped != unlimited. Even Snyder only has so much money he can spend.
  7. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You know what? The Red Sox have won this decade because of these advantages. No the Red Sox don't spend like the Yankees, but they spend significantly more than almost everyone else.

    If the Pats play by the rules, I don't care. Domed teams have an advantage over outdoor teams in terms of croud noise. Northern teams have an advantage in winter months with home games. Southern teams like Miami have an advantage in September in home games. East coast teams have advantage over west coast teams when the game is played in the East Coast.

    There are a lot advantages that teams have that are unfair, but within the boundary of the rules. I never got all the complaints about the Yankees anyway considering the Red Sox do the same thing as the Yankees just not as much to the extreme. Besides, the Mets have one of the highest payrolls every year and they never go anywhere.
  8. TheComeback

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    What a bunch of BS. The Red Sox are the same way as the Yankees. If the Pats don't use every advantage they have to win, they don't deserve to.

    Frankly I don't see us making any major moves in the offseason. Kraft and Belichick have proven they are too cheap to spend the big bucks like Snyder or Jerry Jones. I think they'll continue to be frugal and hope they can re-build the team through the draft. I hope they get someone who has leadership ability, the kind of person who "knows what to do" in any given situation, because the defense really, really needs it.
  9. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And what exactly have Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder actually accomplished with those big bucks?
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2009
  10. AƟƟynormal

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    The reduction by 100 Million is enough for us to go wild. For example, we contract players with zero amortization. This could give us a five year advantage. I think, from reports over time, that most of Kraft's fortune is linked to this team, directly and indirectly. Re-investing 5-10% would seem to make sense.

    As for the Yankee analogy, too bad for KC and the other wittle bittle markets, "WE ARE SPARTA" and they're not. I'm not losing any sleep over a comparative advantage ........... that advantage guarantees nothing.
  11. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    First off, Belichick has very little say about the cap of how much the Pats would pay in a season. Kraft gives him a budget and Belichick uses it as he feels fit.

    Second, Kraft isn't afraid to spend money (see how much he gave Law, Seymour, Milloy, Bledsoe, and Brady over the years) and has hinted that he will spend money in an uncapped year. He has said an uncapped year benefits a major market, big money generator like the Patriots.

    The Pats don't spend because of the salary cap. They know there is only so much available with the cap and they are consistently near the top in payroll. The Pats with a cap choose not to pay too many top players top money, but they pay well up and down the roster. With no cap, they might go crazy.
  12. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think this is a whole lot bigger news for the small revenue teams than it is for the Pats, or potential big spenders like the Cowboys and Redskins.

    "Nine franchises qualified to receive funds this year, although the league has not identified them."

    In other words 23 teams contributed on average about $4 million each, while nine teams received on average about $11 million each. In the grand scheme of things $4 million is not all that much in the Pats' operating budget. However, for teams like Jacksonville and Buffalo, $11 million will be sorely missed.
  13. HarkDawg

    HarkDawg Banned

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    do not be like that. ALL REAL competitors want some sort of an advantage.:)
  14. TarHeelPatsFan

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    If it helps the Pats, great. However, I don't want NFL football to turn into the laughable joke that pro baseball is (unless you live in New York/Boston). It's why the NFL is so much fun for everyone and MLB is only fun for a few.
  15. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is about pressuring the union. They already filed an objection.
  16. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think I read that the Jags got between $15-20 million of the money this year. The reason why the NFLPA is starting to bend over backwards for the league is because they now know that teams like the Jags are going to dump payroll. Teams like the Jags may go the route of the really small market teams in MLB and carry $50 million and under payroll next year. For every Vince Wilfork who will make a ton, there will be a dozen Adalius Thomas' who will be cut because there will be no dead money and a won't get more than the veteran minimum to sign elsewhere.
  17. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would think Kraft would want to be all about showing fiscal responsibility vs buying a Lombardi.
  18. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Of course it is. But the NFLPA is already blinking and giving the league an advantage. There is a better than good chance there will be a new CBA come the beginning of the next NFL year, but if it doesn't happen this is an advantage for the Pats.
  19. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There is no reason to believe that Kraft will spend any more money on players with or without a new CBA.

    I do agree that it is better than even money that there will be a new agreement and a 2010 salary cap (and a team minimum and revenue sharing). The players need to understand that in total the players would likely receive LESS money if there is no salary cap. Many teams would not spend the current minimum. In the absense of revenues sharing, some others would spend above the current minimum, but probably less than before. I'm sure some teams would spend more with no cap.

  20. Urgent

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    Another note based on this season:
    Under an uncapped year, no penalty to releasing players like Adalius Thomas.

    He has a $13mm unamortized signing bonus remaining (including 2009). But it is sunk money, already spent. Under an uncapped season, no cost to releasing him, and the team saves $5mm in 2010 and $6mm in 2011. That could be money better spent elsewhere.
  21. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And there is no reason not to believe. Actually there is more reason to believe that he will because Kraft has stated publically that an uncapped year gives the Pats a big advantage and intimated that he would spend money if there is no cap. Kraft has never been afraid to spend money and the Pats' yearly payroll is usually among the highest in the league. I am talking real dollars and not cap dollars.
  22. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    An understatement if ever there was one ... too bad we can't sue him for robbery.
  23. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Ding Ding................ I could think of few more contracts or exstensions that we could dump (given thier play this year). I think Gost and Mankins will fine and we'll pony up what we need to for them.
  24. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No, he has not intimated anything of the sort. Talking real or cap dollars Kraft has been conservative and measured in his contract dealings since the day BB arrived. Even Drew's deal was not a cap killer like some of the pre BB deals. That's why they could trade him just a year in, he only got $10M in SB. Kraft will not overpay for talent and he won't make the league's restrained position look foolish. He's spent cash over cap intermittently, not consistently, unlike Snyder or Jones who consistently abused that loophole to compensate for previous mistakes by making new ones. What he has stated is the team owners as a collective are not afraid of a an uncapped season and they basically welcome the opportunity it presents to prove to players that the cap is the way to go...

    Is he willing to take limited advantage of some opportunities an uncapped year would present - absolutely, as any smart business man would. But at the same time he's not going to scrap the financial underpinning of this system which is value. And he's not been immune to the economic downturn the League almost couldn't have scripted better for a labor negotiation...although many of his peers have taken bigger hits because they weren't quite as financially savvy. Still with a retail component trying to establish itself in a down economy he isn't nearly as flush as some here dream and he's still paying off far more debt than most ownerships.

    He's also starting to lose ground in the revenue game as bigger, newer stadiums come on line. They have much larger capacity than Gillette, although for the time being they may struggle with things like PSL's and naming rights and any splits in non football revenues in this economy that would otherwise maximize their revenue stream. If additional new stadiums are built in California and Minnesota over the next couple of seasons he will likely fall out of the top 5 revenue teams.
  25. SoonerPatriot

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    I think you're right on his business philosophy but low ball the guy's overall net worth by quite a bit. People forget this guy has multiple business interests beyond the Patriots under the umbrella of the Kraft Group, namely International Forest Products and Rand Whitney that are multi billion dollar companies when it comes to annual sales. If you factor in those interests he's as loaded as just about any owner in the league west of Seattle (Paul Allen) and Snyder. Forbes had him at 1.1 billion in net worth as recently as 2007-08. Also, unlike Jerry Jones, his entire net worth isn't solely found in the football team he owns. Jones sold his oil and gas business when he bought the Cowboys. Jones has everything in one basket, profitable as that basket may be. And the stadium is owned by the city of Arlington. The good news for Jerry is he doesn't have the debt of the stadium, but at the same time, we have no idea how much debt Kraft has on the Razor because it's a privately held company that doesn't have to make those disclosures.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2009
  26. patsfan-1982

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    it dose not sound like a uncapped year is good for the players at all

    all of the old player that where sick will not get help any more

    there will be 2 tags to put on players and the deeper you make it in the playoffs the less players you can sign from other clubs if you loose in the first round of the playoffs you can only sign as many players as you loose


    bob kraft will just get richer the team wont get any better

    in a uncapped year it will come down to what team can draft the best cause there will not be a lot of FA going from team to team
  27. Snarf

    Snarf Rookie

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    Huh? Where did I say that the Red Sox weren't also unfairly stacked?

    They are. The Red Sox are just as bad. Why the hell did you leap to the conclusion that I was a Red Sox fan?

    Instead of making stupid assumptions, how about actually reading what I wrote. What I wrote is that it's far more enjoyable to win when there is an even playing field. It means more.
  28. patsinthesnow

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    Reading this post of how next year will be like the MLB.

    Where do we rank $$$ wise? It has to be near the top with 100 consecutive sellouts, patriots place, insane prices, etc.

    1. Redskins
    2. Cowboys
    3. ????
    4. ????
    5. ????
  29. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Getting back to whether or not Kraft would spend a lot of money (i.e., try to buy a championship), I would say he probably would not. I seem to recall him looking into ownership of a soccer team in Europe a while back and he said he would do that only if there was a salary cap; and as I recall he went on to say that he never would have purchased the Pats if the NFL did not have a salary cap. With that in mind, I don't foresee any reckless spending on his part in an uncapped year.
  30. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The biggest myth is that the Pats don't like to spend money. The fact is they do. Look what they are giving Shawn Springs to be a scout player who doesn't dress on Sundays. Springs got a 3 year, $10.5 million deal and even when he was signed he wasn't going to be a guaranteed starter. He is getting $4.55 million in real dollars this year alone.

    Or how about Jarvis Green who is getting $5.4 million in real dollars this year even though he wasn't a starter at the time they picked up his $2.3 million option bonus and isn't a full time player now.

    The Pats don't pay for many marquee free agents, but they have a long history of paying above average money to great money for seasoned veterans middle tier players. Why? Because it is easier to manipulate the cap and a much lower risk, reward move to pay a guy like Springs who ended up being a bust than paying a guy like Adalius Thomas who also was a bust but cost a lot more towards the cap.

    Drew Bledsoe's deal was a blockbuster. There is no way around it. If there was never a Tom Brady, the guy probably would have gotten every penny of the deal. Luckily Belichick was never sold on Bledsoe and he and Pioli created a deal that gave them outs if he failed. It wasn't that the Pats weren't willing to pay Bledsoe (in fact, the rumor is Kraft forced Belichick to give him the deal eventhough Belichick wasn't sold on the guy), it was that Belichick wasn't sold on the guy as their QB and wanted an out. Let's not forget Belichick gave Lawyer Milloy that blockbuster, uncap friendly deal in 2000 and had to cut him for cap reasons three years later.

    Also, building new stadiums in this economy is not the bonaza it was 5-10 years ago. As you stated, the Cowboys can't find anyone to pay for the naming rights for their new stadium. The Jets and Giants are charging exorbetant PSLs just to cover their debt and they are having trouble covering their debt right now. The Patriots built their stadium for $300 million. Jerry Jones built his for a billion. The new stadium in the Meadowlands is even more expensive.

    As for other teams building stadiums, there are only two teams who will have a new stadium next year in the uncapped year (both share the same stadium in the Meadowlands). Next year is the only year that matters because after next year, there is no football without a CBA. I don't care about Los Angeles, Toronto, San Antonio, Mexico City, etc. because this discussion is next year and next year alone and there won't be those new stadiums.

    The fact of the matter is that probably about a third of the teams will be dropping what they pay players in an uncapped year, possibly more. Most will not go crazy and few will pay significantly more than they would in a capped year because of the economy. The Pats won't go crazy like the Redskins probably will, but they are definitely a have team and Kraft knows that with smart signings and opening up his wallet a little bit could net this team another Super Bowl which would easily offset the costs of increasing the payroll to build a championships.

    I never said this team would be the NY Yankees. I don't think any team will except for maybe the Redskins and Cowboys. The Pats could be the equivelent of a next teir team where they spend more than most, but not to the crazy levels of the top teams.
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