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Good Moonbat Story (rich moonbat)

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Harry Boy, Feb 3, 2012.

  1. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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  2. Drewski

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    #87 Jersey

    HB, assuming her quote wasnt taken out of context, this is just fantastic (I love when Politicians say stupid stuff and try to skirt away).

    That being said her I made 14M last year and am "not rich" should get the same play here as Mitt's "i dont care about the very poor" line. I somehow doubt it will though...

    I'm an equal opportunity hater
  3. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Decide for yourself.

    Harry's article says this:

    The Republican commercial now out shows Elizabeth saying this:

    and then goes on to repeat that one line over and over again.

    Here's the actual interview where it came from:

    And here's a link to the interview and to the commercial.

    Daily Kos: Massachusetts Republicans launch blatantly dishonest video attacking Elizabeth Warren
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
  4. Drewski

    Drewski Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    But her quote still says "I realize there are some wealthy individuals – I’m not one of them...."

    What about $14M makes a person not wealthy?
  5. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    From any perspective, Elizabeth Warren is an extremely wealthy woman. Wealth really isn't relative, it's an absolute.

    Is she as wealthy as some? Nope. But that doesn't change the fact that she's very wealthy.

    Does it make her a bad person? Of course not. But don't tell us you're not very wealthy.

    Wealth isn't about how much one makes. It's about a person's total net-worth. I could make $500k/year and not be wealthy if I spent most of what I made.
  6. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    I don't think she meant she was not wealthy, I think she meant she was not a wealthy person who took refuge in blind trusts and stock porfolios.

    Kind of like if I said, "I realize there are some female shoe-freaks, I'm not one of them, who own 20 pairs of Jimmy Choo shoes." It doesn't mean I'm not a female, it doesn't mean I'm not a shoe-freak, either, it just means I don't own any Jimmy Choo's.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
  7. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    PR, what part of being able to spend "most of" $500,00 a year makes someone not wealthy?
  8. Drewski

    Drewski Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    But isnt she arguing FOR Blind Trusts and Portfolios?

    To summarize what I gathered from her quote:
    1. Politicians are wealthy, many times because of their stock portfolios.
    2. She thinks Pols should put their wealth into blind trusts/portfolios because they are in a position to know non public information about regulations which could impact companies they own stock in (I agree with this point).
    3. She doesnt have stock - instead has mutual funds (which are generally stock).
    4. "I realize there are some wealthy individuals – I’m not one of them...."

    I just dont think you can say "Im not one of them..." as a means to compare yourself to super wealthy people who use various vehicles to protect their money, when in fact is she is wealthy.
  9. DarrylS

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    The Insider Trading Bill was passed by the Senate yesterday by something like 95-3, now we will see what shenanigans the House will pull on this one.

    I guess she was referring to Issa et al, who is worth something like 440 million...
  10. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    ]

    My bad. I got it backasswards. You're right. Same principal (I think) but reversed.

    I'd love to sort it all out right now because I've confused even myself but I'm off to the hospital to meet my mother-in-law's ambulance so she can get her feeding tube reinserted.

    Ugh.
  11. Drewski

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    #87 Jersey

    Best of luck to you, Mr.PFnVA and your mom-in-law.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
  12. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Harry, you keep forgetting..... bring stinking rich is only a drawback if you're an eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil republican. Otherwise if you're a democrat, it's good to be so successful.
  13. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Drewski, Mrs, based on the full quote Mrs posted, you're both reading this wrong, though Mrs had it correct the first time. Here's the quote I'm referring to, for clarity:

    “Either don’t own it or put it in a blind trust where someone else manages it and you literally can’t see what’s in there,” Warren said. “I realize there are some wealthy individuals – I’m not one of them – but some wealthy individuals who have a lot of stock portfolios, but you’re exactly right. I don’t understand how people can be out there in the House, in the Senate, and they get inside information and they’re making critical decisions.”

    She isn't saying she isn't wealthy. She's saying she's not a a wealthy person with a lot of stock portfolios.

    The distinction between mutual funds and a stock portfolio in this case isn't the type of security held -- it's a matter of control. That's completely consistent with her comment re. blind trusts. If somebody else is managing your money and you can't know what's in the portfolio and can't influence it, that's comparable to owning a mutual fund (though you can see the holdings of the mutual fund, or some of them, it's after the fact).
  14. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The excuses roll in for the "Rich Looney Democrat" if you can judge a person by their looks and behavior this women looks and acts just like one of those liberal tree huggers that work in your local Organic Food Store selling sun flower seeds, I should know, my wife used to darg me into them, I always made sure I told one of these sappy pale faced simpering nuts that I only ate Chinese Food, French Fries and plenty of Beer, I told one of them once that would eat a piece of sh!t if it was cooked right.
  15. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    What excuses, harry? the facts?

    if that's the full quote that Carr and the rest are taking her words from, they're just spreading lies. if you're spreading them despite now being shown the facts, you're spreading lies as well.
  16. Drewski

    Drewski Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    Fair enough Chico. Re-reading the quote, placing the pause and emphasis on the ".......-.....Im not one of them.....[continue]" reads completely differently. Apparently my early morning reading comprehension wasn't turned on (damn you coffee!!)


    I guess my question is this (and i cant watch the full interview presently).

    What was the context of interview before the quote you posted? Were they talking about rich politicians, in a "The wealthy are out of touch with everyday working people, but here is how I am different" kind of way? Because the ads I have seen of hers up here go on and on about she is an average person, grew up humble yada yada yada.

    On the other hand was the conversation about rich politicians who also take advantage of the system they "custodian" ie owning stock and making deals based on insider info?

    If it is the latter (how she doesnt have stocks and thus doesnt take advantage of what she knows being a pol), then your point is completely accurate and I misread its meaning and thus I am wrong. If it is the former, then she is a lameass politician (like 99% of em) who claims to know how the "average American has it" while all the while pulling in $14M a year.

    Nothing wrong with being rich, and nothing wrong with wanting to change the way pols can take advantage of the system. But there is something wrong with claiming to know how tough everyday people (on a personal basis) have it when you clearly dont.

    But at this point I cant tell what the context of the convo; not the quote, was overall. If someone could confirm that for me I would appreciate it.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
  17. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    i don't know, drewski. I'm solely going by what harry initially posted and the the more expansive context mrs posted.

    if anybody else has more detail, perhaps it could change things. As it stands, though, it looks like Carr is lying, and harry is spreading those lies.

    If there's context showing that her meaning was actually different, I'm sure harry will post it. ;)
  18. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Yes, what Chico said....and said well.

    Again, sorry I backwarded the stock portfolio/blind trust thing.
  19. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Thank you. It's a reoccuring problem and it reoccurs much too frequently. When they know you on sight and you are no longer requred to wear a "visitor's tag" in the surgical unit you know you've been there too often.

    It went as it always does.

    I got yelled at for something I have no control over, she got poked and prodded until she began moaning (which she almost never does) and then I got re-lectured about the proper way to do something that I have no responsibility for doing and then, when we had both teared up and reached our maximum aggravation level, we were allowed to get back in the ambulance and go home.
  20. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    It was the latter. They were talking about Scott Brown's bill to ban insider trading and how she supports it but wishes it went even further to the point where, if you have money, you should not be allowed to own stock that you might be passing bills on and that, if you have wealth, you should either not have stock at all or, if you do, it should be required to be put into a blind trust.

    The Last Word - Warren: Romney earns $$$ the 'wrong' way
  21. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    I agree with Warren's points across the board on this issue. I think both R&L would also agree as it's not a partisan issue, it's a moral issue.
  22. Drewski

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    Thanks Mrs for confirming the entire context of the interview. I was wrong.

    I agree with the bill being passed forward for a vote by Sen. Brown.
  23. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Cool....in that case we are all in agreement.

    Now, another question for both of you.

    What do you think of Harry's cited story which says,
    and the commerical put out by the Mass. Republican Party which shows a 3 second clip of her saying,
    over and over again?

    Ok? Ethical? Over the top? Downright lie?
  24. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Do you remember what I said about how you look stupid being a spelling nazi when we all - yourself included - make tons of spelling mistakes?
  25. Drewski

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    #87 Jersey

    Given the context of what she was saying, I think the headline (and subsequent commercial) are misleading.

    Having said that, this isn't the first (nor last time) that a newspaper or Political group will put out a misleading message. I think (sadly) to some extent that is part of the "game".

    I personally prefer "positive" political ads and find the negative ones counter productive to what I am looking to hear; which is what the candidate stands for, not attacking a competitor.

    Beyond that I prefer the "consumer" to take it upon themselves to vette anything; political ads, newspapers, products services etc. Simply meaning misleading ads/newspapers etc should be allowed because at the end of the day the consumer has to accept it and "buy" it or not.

    This thread is a perfect example. HB posted, I reacted with "wow that is an odd thing to say for someone who made $14M". Then between you and chico, you were able to fill in the precursor to the comment, setting the context correctly, clearing up my confusion.

    Its misleading in my opinion, but certainly ethical. I mean she did say that line...just not in the way they are presenting. And the onus is on the people hearing it to accept it as accurate or have a lovely forum of people who have information to set it straight :)
  26. chicowalker

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    unethical and essentially a lie, as it clearly is intended to deceive through the omission
  27. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    If it's misleading, and intentionally so, then it's unethical. (In this context -- there are situations where few people would consider deceipt unethical (e.g., poker, football), and there are areas of grey (negotiations).)

    The fact that the words were spoken doesn't change the ethics. if a talented editor strung together a bunch of words a candidate said to create a false message, surely you wouldn't consider that ethical, would you?
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
  28. Drewski

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    #87 Jersey

    In my ethos - Lying is Unethical. So by default yes this is too. But I throw Political ads in with Marketing and Advertisement as a whole. You are trying to create a behavior based on passing a message. Sometimes you have a product that you make claims about which may or may not be true, same for politicians. The difference is we have False Advertisement rules for consumer goods which we, to my knowledge, do not have for political ads.

    So Reebok comes out and says "wear these shoes and your ass WILL look better". The shoes don't, people get upset because they bought the "marketing" and Reebok by order of a Judge, no longer says that.

    In politics we have one group chop up sound bites into a article or ad (their marketing). They piece it together to attempt to gain support for their guy. However, short of libel (which this clearly isn't) there aren't the same legal repercussions...

    At the end of the day yes it is unethical to lie, but I go into "Politics" expecting it. Im not condoning it (see previously where I said the negative stuff I dont like).

    That being said if you are going to claim "grey" area on a negotiation, than I could see someone claiming the same area in politics (as it comes to campaigning).
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
  29. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    I know it's really important to you to be part of every conversation going on but you might want to check with PR and ask him his take on my "correction," as there's history behind it that you, unfortunately, are not part of.
  30. chicowalker

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    So if I'm reading this correctly, you actually do think it's unethical, just not illegal. and you expect politics to involve unethical behavior while not condoning it. (and I'd agree with all that)

    re. negotiations, btw, to me it's more a matter of what the other side is entitled to know. If I'm selling a company and a potential buyer asks if other people are interested, I don't view it as unethical to lie and say there are. They don't have the right to that information, and refusing to answer could harm me due to their perception. On the other hand, lying about the company's historical performance would be unethical (as well as illegal).

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