Good Article from Callahan in the Herald

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by cstjohn17, Dec 12, 2006.

  1. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 Supporter Supporter

    #54 Jersey

    He is a good writer and is on point, the worst thing about it is how obvious the whole situation was.

    Tom Brady is 29-years old and almost at the end of his sixth season as a starter in the NFL. Somehow, he still is standing, still apparently healthy enough to make his 103rd straight start this Sunday against Houston.

    That is the good news for the Patriots [team stats] as they stumble into the final three weeks of the regular season. At least they haven’t gotten the franchise killed yet. The bad news: It appears they’ve wasted a year of Tom Brady [stats]’s prime.
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS Supporter Supporter

    Callahan is a clown pure and simple, I am sure that behind closed doors Bob Kraft, Scott Pioli and BB planned this to be a crappy season. There are in every season a bunch of factors beyond their control starting with the Deion holdout, the late acquisition of receivers, the slow progress of Chad Jackson, the turnovers, penalties and now injuries are all part of the grand scheme planned by those in charge of this organization.

    Callahan is like the proverbial rat leaving the sinking ship, but the sink is not sinking maybe listing a little bit, but not sinking.
  3. Oswlek

    Oswlek Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    I still vehemently disagree with those that claim that NE willingly chose to be in the situation that they are in. I don't mean to offend anyone that does not share my opinion, but I think that it reeks of being uninformed when people say that they shouldn't have let this guy go or whatever.

    With regard to Givens, NE had one hand tied behind their backs. They couldn't give him what the market was because that would have ended any chance wahtsoever to sign Branch. Had NE had any inkling of Branch's issues. Givens would be here now.

    Branch royally screwed NE this off season. Not only did he wait until the Givens thing played out to make his unhappiness known, but he advised Javon Walker to not come to NE. I do think that NE was at fault for not knowing that the 5th year bothered Branch so much, but once NE's offer did not waive that year, Branch never again had any intention of signing with NE. I don't know Deion personally, but it doesn't take a genius to see that his every move from that point on was to get out of NE.

    Walker was pushed away by Branch. Peerless Price was all set to sign here as a reclamation project before Buffalo came in with an outrageous offer. Porter and Moss have proven that they aren't exactly great options themselves.

    Add to that the fact that NE drafted receivers with their 2nd, 3rd and 4th picks in the draft along with a RB that was needed even more and I have to ask, "How did NE waste a year of Brady's prime again?"
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    I'm with you guys. The plan was to have Branch, Caldwell, Brown and a developing Jackson this year. Along with 2 good TE and a strong running game. That's not a wasted year. OK, so Branch refused to honor his contract and Jackson missed all of training camp. Sucks for us. But it happens. You can't plan around everything.
  5. RayClay

    RayClay Hall of Fame Poster

    #75 Jersey

    3 super bowl rings and we're 9-4 now.

    It's not that I'm happy but........

    Dan Marino
    Sonny Jurgensen
    Dan Fouts
    Peyton Manning................................................
  6. Krugman

    Krugman Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    #87 Jersey

    I like your line of thinking,oswlek.I cant see the Pats planning to toss this season away,that makes no sense at all.In the preseason,things didnt look too bad,Dillon was healthy,Maroney was on board,Chad Jackson looked like he would be decent,Watson was set to have a good year.Branch was still a possibility.Sometimes the guys you sign work out(Brian Cox,Harrison,Vrabel)and sometimes they dont (Beisel,Starks).But its tough to see that sometimes,and then you add injuries to key players,it can hurt a team.
    I didnt know that bit about Branch and Walker,thats interesting.
  7. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 Supporter Supporter

    #54 Jersey

    Sorry, I am with Callahan. I am tired of hearing how "they almost signed this guy.." or "they wanted this guy", in the end their WRs are among the worst in the league. Branch's departure hurt them, but the issue could have been solved by working harder to sign him. All the talk of negotiating with Branch sets a bad precedent is garbage. They caved to Seymour last year (no Branch is not is Seymour's class but he was far and away their best receiver). Each negotiation is unique. In 2005 even with Branch and Givens they tried to sign Mason so they did see some need to improve the unit.

    None of us have all the information that SP and BB have, they are the professionals, they should have developed contingencies for these situations. Drafting an undersized TE in the 3rd round and even more undersized out of position TE in the 4th round doesn't help the WRs.

  8. RayClay

    RayClay Hall of Fame Poster

    #75 Jersey

    So the other 25 or so teams below us, many with glamorous and wonderful wide receivers, wouldn't be happy to be 9-4?
  9. RayClay

    RayClay Hall of Fame Poster

    #75 Jersey

    I thought they drafted the, (arguably) top WR in the draft?:confused: :confused:

    Let me check my draft board again.:confused: :confused:
  10. DarrylS

    DarrylS Supporter Supporter

    So tired of hearing the crap about Branch could be the savior of this offense, it is about as tiring of blaming McDaniels for our current problems. First of all they could not renegotiate with one of the regular players, they made an exception for our all pro #93, but to tear up the last year of his contract is not something that would sit well with the other 52 guys on the team. Branch is doing ok, but not spectacular in Seattle. Read where the last two weeks he came up short in 1st down sitz. Instead of wouldof, couldof need to deal with the realities of what is. At best Branch is a receiver who excelled in this system as we played to his strengths. If Branch was here would there be less false starts, turnovers and the rest of the problems we are facing, I think not a lot of folks need to take a reality pill here.. it is what it is.
  11. Oswlek

    Oswlek Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Question: Do you feel that NE's first offer to Branch was a competitive one? Keep in mind, this was an initial offer. Did they try to rip him off?

    I find it hard for anyone to say it wasn't fair. As far as Brady and Seymour, both of those guys were given an extension on their deals with bonus money coming while the current deal was still in force. Is that different from what they offered Branch? Seymour was given a mild bump in the year that he sat out, but don't you think if Branch dealt in good faith that he probably would have been given that? Or if he had counter-offered that he would have gotten NE up somewhat?

    Again, I feel that NE could have done something different with their intial offer (read: I had no problem with NE reworking the final year), but from that moment on Branch was gone. Do you not agree? Do you also not agree that signing Givens to the deal that TN gave him would have priced Branch out of here immediately? Or that NE clearly wanted Branch more than Givens? Or that Walker, upon hearing that he should avoid NE from a current WR would happen to miss a few flights here?

    It is this lack of real lack of analysis that makes people say that NE is suffering from arrogance, and that drives me nuts. Your point about Mason only proves *my* point. NE had no intention of being in the place that they are now. This is probably plan H or something.
  12. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 Supporter Supporter

    #54 Jersey

    This has been beaten to death, Callahan was just stating something that is an obvious fact, the WRs on this team suck. This will be my last post with any remote connection to Branch but maybe we are all in denial or need a reality pill.

    • Bringing a new group of WRs into a "complex" scheme like the Pats is a lot of work. It took Branch and Givens years to get a comfort level. If Branch is on the team Brady has at least two guys (Branch & Brown) who understand the offense. At at least one that stand up as a top 10-15 WR in the league and can beat a press.
    • Who cares about the other 31 teams, the original point was that the Pats wasted a year of Brady's prime. Honestly, underline , honestly, please for the sake of everything good try to be honest. Do you think Brady would be more effective with better WRs and / or ones that know this system?
    • The history of the NFL shows that WRs rarely make an impact in their rookie year. I give Jackson a pass for this season, maybe he is part of the solution for 2007 but relying on a rookie to be an impact player in year one is hardly a solid organizational strategy.
    • The other point in the article (see original point) describes the misconception that Brady can take anyone and make them look good. The evidence suggests that this is not the case.
    • As far as 52 other players ripping up their contract, that is so lame. When Brady pouted for 3 weeks and Seymour was crying like a little girl it didn't seem like everyone was "behind" the FO.

    Bottom line - The WRs suck, more could have been done to change it and we can hold hope against hope but the 2006 season seems to be lost.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2006
  13. RayClay

    RayClay Hall of Fame Poster

    #75 Jersey

    I think Brady is better with receivers he's played with for 4 years.

    How does that translate to wasting a year of his prime? Because you don't get to see him put up gaudy numbers?

    I gave you a list of QBs with gaudy numbers. Are receivers the difference?

    No, results are.

    Brady has three rings and the team is 9-4 this year.

    You could say those quarterbacks wasted their whole careers if winning is the criteria.

    But it isn't. Certain fans only care about receivers and running backs and are totally unconcerned about lack of talent at other positions.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2006
  14. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 Supporter Supporter

    #54 Jersey

    Who said anything about numbers? Wins are what counts...

    The Patriots past success was based on a balanced attack. 2004 was a great year offensively because the offense could move the ball through the air or on the ground. 2005 was not a very good offensive year because our running game sucked. This year our running game is ok but limited because there is absolutely no threat at WR.

    The lack of continuity at WR set the offense back at the start of the year. Now that we are past the 3/4 pole there are no more excuses, it is obvious there is lack of talent. To throw your hands up and say "While they tried to sign player X..." is not an objective analysis of the WR group. The lack of quality WRs have put a strain on the offense, not surrounding the best player on the team with a competitive group of receivers has put the team at a disadvantage and looks to be resulting in a lost year for #12.

  15. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Callaghan is a idiot who can barely write a story on the Red Sux even when equipped with the daily game and box score to start with. He and Massarotti imported from the off season Red Sux ass-kiss corps have nothing to say that anyone out of kindergarten nneeds to hear!

    They don't know sh1t from Shinola about baseball, and much less than that about football.
  16. Oswlek

    Oswlek Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    And, IMHO, it is just as poor an analysis to scream "THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING!"

    I have explained exactly why NE missed out on a few receivers. I have also said where I think NE should shoulder some blame. All that you (or anyone who holds your opinion) say is "it clear didn't work so they should have signed someone."

    Besides trading for a guy who had hamstring problems (Stalworth) or redoiing the draft (Jennings/Colsten) what would you have done differently?
  17. Drewwho

    Drewwho Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Hey, I love Brady just like all Pat fans, but this WR thing is blown way out of proportion. Look at Drew Brees - he had shoulder surgery in the off season and being part of an entire NEW offense and team he never threw to one of his current 'no name' receivers or TE's. He seems to be doing just fine without that time to build 'chemistry'. Sure his guys might be more talented than what Brady has, but isn't Brady better than Brees?

    I think our the WR's are fine and the TE situation is better than on most teams. I am so sick of hearing it is the receivers. How about Brady this is more of a QB issue than a WR issue. Brady has not been sharp this year. Maybe it is fustration with the OC and the Branch dealings and his problems are more with the front office than we really know, but overall Brady has been far from Great this year. He was off even in TC. I went to several sessions and he looked off by all accounts. He was overthrowing and getting intercepted in almost every session. In fact, I dare say that Cassel outplayed him most of TC. Maybe the fire is just gone or he has a lingering injury that we know nothing about. But the WR talk has GOT to stop!
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2006
  18. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 Supporter Supporter

    #54 Jersey

    Thank you for your inside knowledge on exactly how each negotiation took place. Missing from your story is that they were to slow or too cheap in several of these cases.

    It is BB & SP job to find the players, not mine. Ignoring the hole in the roster did not make it go away.

    Leaving the draft out of it, there were many players on the market that the Pats could have decided to sign or trade for.

    Bradford, Corey
    Bryant, Antonio
    Burleson, Nate
    Johnson, Keyshawn
    Jurevicius, Joe
    Lloyd, Brandon
    Moulds, Eric
    Owens, Terrell
    Randle El, Antwaan
    Walker, Javon
    Branch, Deion
    Given, David

    Stallworth was traded to Philly for nothing.
    Porter would have been cheap. Before you talk about character and the "Pats" type of player think back to Corey Dillion.

    Or they could have gotten creative and found someone to trade with, we have a lot of draft picks for ammo.

    The rolled the dice by not upgrading the position, it was a highly preventable problem.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2006
  19. Oswlek

    Oswlek Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    I don't see how listing a bunch of guys makes your case in any way. They *did* get creative with trading for a player with draft picks. I can see three guys that they missed on in your list, but that still doesn't prove anything. There are other teams in this league and players have their own choices. Again, your example with the Baltimore WR only proves this more. His wife wanted to be in Baltimore over NE, so he went there. Should NE have pushed the offer into the ridiculous so he couldn't walk away at the expense of other positions?

    No, I was no in the negotiating room, but there was more than enough info out there to formulate opinions that your points have done nothing to dispute. Is NE infallible? No. Would I rather that they offered Branch a $3mm raise this year on top of his extension or they signed Jurevicious? Of course. But can you say for certain that any of those guys would have come to NE? Or that NE didn't offer then something?
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2006

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