Gonzalez and Johnson for Cassel?

[DW Toys]

How much $$$$ would it take to bring in TG and LA?? I don't think so.

Their CAP cost combined is about $10m. Cassels franchise number is $15m.
DW toys

 

[Richter]

Posted that a few days ago but it is the way I think as well.

I added Maroney and Thomas and then I got all the defensive fans their draft picks by getting the K.C. #3 pick in the first for our #23 and their second round pick at #35. After all, Pioli drafted these kids so he can build a core.

Now lets play this out further for FUN!!!(fun I said). Take that #3 pick and our third rounder(we have two for the Assante Comp) and swap them to a team who does not have a first rounder but has a stud OLB/DE who wants to play in a winning 3-4 defense, Julius Peppers. That is slightly better than what the Chiefs got for Allen. Can we do better than Julius Peppers in the draft for a defensive add?

So in Summary: Cassel, Maroney and Thomas plus our first rounder #23 and our own third round pick gets us Gonzales, Peppers, and LJ (we can even get a pick for him from like N.O. if he is a pain) and we also get the #35 pick in the draft. So day one we pick up these players AND still have three first day picks.

Gonzales would be a tremendous asset I do not care what the Hitler Youth say (check out the Patsfans.com archives for comments that they made about Moss. I bet the same names show up). His over the hill a tired performance of 96 catches works for me. Peppers would be a gift to get (we all wanted Suggs or Danby here and they would cost us the same money). LJ? He is the Cracker Jacks prize. He could be cool like a ring or just one of those little tiny cardboard pictures of the Jacks kid and his dog that were all sticky so we threw it out.
And all of those wanting defense, we get three picks still on day one too.
DW Toys

Awful, just awful. I'd be horrified if that happened. I want no part of Peppers or Johnson. And no way in hell is Peppers worth the #3 pick.

 

[DW Toys]

The offence is fine. We dont need an old TE who makes alot of money and we deff dont need a top salery running back. We need that money for the things that truley make a team win. Interior lineman. We will have to resign WIlfork and Seymore soon. What we need to do and will do is trade cassel for a first and either second or third round pick. This will allow us to fix the defence through the draft and make us a more complete team. The offence is good enouph, teams win championships.

Jeeze I am starting to sound like Simon. This team is set up to have rookies learn before they are put into service as starters unless your name is Mankins or Mayo. Getting stud players for our D is great. Just don't expect production for a year or two. You want to wait? How old is TB? By the way, how old is Gonzales? They say Gonzales is beat up. Who is coming off major surgery? They are the same age and both great professionals. The tired old broke down TE had 96 catches last year on a team without much at QB. By the way, his CAP is about $4m. Not bad for a 10 time All Pro.
Te Pats have to make a decision about paying Pierre Woods almost $2m.
I agree with you that you need more than Gonzales for Matt C.A swap of ones and a two would work.
DW Toys

 

[VJCPatriot]

So in Summary: Cassel, Maroney and Thomas plus our first rounder #23 and our own third round pick gets us Gonzales, Peppers, and LJ (we can even get a pick for him from like N.O. if he is a pain) and we also get the #35 pick in the draft. So day one we pick up these players AND still have three first day picks.

Are you on crack? No seriously. When Gonzales was available for a 3rd round pick, the Patriots wouldn't bite. What makes you think they'd want him now? Peppers is a nice player but severely overrated and we can't be sure he'd convert to the Pats system plus he'll want a new 10M+ contract. Umm no. LJ is a broken down back on the wrong side of 30, he's the next Eddie George. Wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole. None of these trades benefit the Patriots. Why do they want players that are either A) Too Old B) Too Expensive C) Overrated or D) All of the above!!!? Give me the draft picks and watch BB work his magic. Thank god the fans are not the GM in this case.

Gonzalez - At most he's worth a 3rd round pick and he's got maybe a couple years of shelf life left on his tires. Draft a TE like Shawn Nelson with that pick instead.
LJ - Eddie George. Nuff said. Draft Knowshown Moreno instead if RB is a need, which it really isn't a big one.
Peppers - Sign a free agent OLB like Suggs or Dansby instead. Same price maybe but you don't lose any draft picks.

 

[brdmaverick]

We had the 6th ranked rushing offense without our #1 running back last year.

I would be willing to argue that we had the 6th ranked rushing offense because our "#1" running back was hurt last year.

 

[jmt57]

It makes sense that the source of this idea would be a Chiefs' message board, because it is a better deal for Kansas City than it is for the Pats. Larry Johnson was over used and abused for two years, now he's washed up and as a result his career will end prematurely. He most likely will be cut; they would jump with glee if another team traded for him. Gonzalez probably has what, one, two good years left? The Pats ranked 6th in rushing last year, and another pass receiver is not an area of need - which is what Gonzalez essentially is.

The Pats will have far better options than this trade; no thanks.

 

[DW Toys]

Are you on crack? No seriously. When Gonzales was available for a 3rd round pick, the Patriots wouldn't bite. What makes you think they'd want him now? Peppers is a nice player but severely overrated and we can't be sure he'd convert to the Pats system plus he'll want a new 10M+ contract. Umm no. LJ is a broken down back on the wrong side of 30, he's the next Eddie George. Wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole. None of these trades benefit the Patriots. Why do they want players that are either A) Too Old B) Too Expensive C) Overrated or D) All of the above!!!? Give me the draft picks and watch BB work his magic. Thank god the fans are not the GM in this case.

Gonzalez - At most he's worth a 3rd round pick and he's got maybe a couple years of shelf life left on his tires. Draft a TE like Shawn Nelson with that pick instead.
LJ - Eddie George. Nuff said. Draft Knowshown Moreno instead if RB is a need, which it really isn't a big one.
Peppers - Sign a free agent OLB like Suggs or Dansby instead. Same price maybe but you don't lose any draft picks.

Scuse me while I take a hit...o.k.These are all opinions and I appreciate yours as well. We are not trading even a third for Gonzales in my scenario by the way.

Here is the dilemma. If we trade Cassel, all of you out there now tell me how many years will TB be the top QB in the game? He has to have maybe two good years in him left, maybe three. He will still have more seasons God willing after that sure and maybe some great ones, but the next two or three are his best shot to "make hay".

I love the draft. I get excited about our picks but I know how BB uses them. These draft choices start to come around here in two to three years. So what you suggest is let's blow off 2009 and ready the kids for 2010 or 2011? I say if Brady was 26 or 28 you have a point, but everybody understand that TB is at his peak. We need to win now. We have the tools now for another run at the Championship. A few more adds and we could have another couple rings, but please do not count these draft choice as contributors in 2009. Mayo and Mankins were an exception and not the rule.

The players I say to add to the trade are fair. I think the trade is fair. In Gonzales you will be saying the same thing as they said about Moss if TG is a Pat in 2009. If 96 catches with no QB show TG is too old and worn out, bring me more of them. Randy Moss is the same age or close to it.

I would agree with you that LJ is a stinker but worse case scenario is during training camp, a team that looses a RB would have to look at LJ through us to make a trade for a 2010 pick perhaps. LJ is not my cup of tea either but remember, he sat behind Holmes for a while and split time with him. He has more legs left then some may think.

I don't follow you on Peppers. He is about the equal of Suggs in my thinking. He will cost the same and maybe less and rather than bid against ten other teams you can lock down a Pro Bowler like Peppers. Both are great. Suggs had 8 sacks and 2 FF and Peppers 14.5 sacks and 5 FF. A 6' 7" pass rusher with 4.6 speed is more of a threat than a 6' 2" pass rusher although I would be pleased with either. How can these numbers say Peppers is overrated?
Would Carolina take less than K.C. did for Jared Allen?

It's all conjecture VJC but interesting and I am trying to cut down on the Rock and switch to C.M.
DW Toys

 

[Kontradiction]

Ok, ok, I read the Chiefsnation posts about Johnson. I withdraw my offer. But I'd still like Gonzalez, if only for a couple of years.

Maybe they could throw in Duane Bowe.

LOL. Maybe if this were Madden...

 

[Brettlax3434]

Jeeze I am starting to sound like Simon. This team is set up to have rookies learn before they are put into service as starters unless your name is Mankins or Mayo. Getting stud players for our D is great. Just don't expect production for a year or two. You want to wait? How old is TB? By the way, how old is Gonzales? They say Gonzales is beat up. Who is coming off major surgery? They are the same age and both great professionals. The tired old broke down TE had 96 catches last year on a team without much at QB. By the way, his CAP is about $4m. Not bad for a 10 time All Pro.
Te Pats have to make a decision about paying Pierre Woods almost $2m.
I agree with you that you need more than Gonzales for Matt C.A swap of ones and a two would work.
DW Toys

Rookies who are good enouph step right in and are fine. anyway, we only need them ready for the playoff run. Seymore, Warren, Wilfork, Samuel, Mankins, and Mayo were all very good as rookies, and thats the short list.

 

[billdog3484]

this thread belongs in the practice squad or the fantasy football room. get this out of here

 

[billdog3484]

Jeeze I am starting to sound like Simon. This team is set up to have rookies learn before they are put into service as starters unless your name is Mankins or Mayo. Getting stud players for our D is great. Just don't expect production for a year or two. You want to wait? How old is TB? By the way, how old is Gonzales? They say Gonzales is beat up. Who is coming off major surgery? They are the same age and both great professionals. The tired old broke down TE had 96 catches last year on a team without much at QB. By the way, his CAP is about $4m. Not bad for a 10 time All Pro.
Te Pats have to make a decision about paying Pierre Woods almost $2m.
I agree with you that you need more than Gonzales for Matt C.A swap of ones and a two would work.
DW Toys

the TE position and QB position are much different. TEs get beat up way more than QBs thus they are able to last longer and perform at a higher level later on in life than TEs. TG is great no doubt, but hes tooooo old for this type of trade. if we give up a 4th for him i am fine with that, but not cassel for he and lj

 

[Jackson 2]

On another discussion board, a poster said--with unusual and even suspicious certainty--that we would trade Cassel to Kansas City for two players.

As it happens, two KC players are restless.

Gonzalez, 32, is saying he wants to go to a contender. We are looking to improve at tight end....hmmmm, interesting. 98 receptions last year, for 1058 yards.

Larry Johnson, 29, is also unhappy in KC, and we might easily find him a useful addition to the team. Last year, he ran for 845 yards, averaging 4.5 yards per carry. The Patriots might have a place for someone like that, especially given the universal fragility of our running backs.

And we could always sweeten our end of the deal with Thomas/Watson, and/or one of our running backs....and KC could toss in, say, a 2nd round draft pick....

What does Patriots' nation think of the possibility...?

Not even close to true equity. With Morris, Jordan (if he returns), a healthy Maroney and Green-Ellis, I think we'll be OK. Quality running backs are pretty common in the NFL. What isn't common are running backs approaching 30 with lots of tread on their tires whose futures are bright. TG would not be happy, in my opinion, in an offense which features Moss and Welker. This is only my opinion, but I want youthful talent in return for anyone we trade, including Cassel.

 

[amazinPats]

Gonzo only has a couple of years left, and nobody wants Larry Johnson. This would be tantamount to giving away Matt Casell for close to nothing. Good teams are built by the draft.

There's a chance that Peppers will be on the free market shortly. No reason to offer any compensation for him.

 

[jdk19]

Those are 2 players worth

about a 3rd round pick for Gonzalez

about a 4th for Johnson because he is a character risk.

If KC gave up their 1st and the players about you just might have a deal.

Pats have room for a TE and a RB so it would be a good risk.

The problem for KC is you are not going to give up players you don't want to get something several team want based on the word out there.

It is looking like a 1 plus to get Cassel

So the players above and their 1 is a 1 plus.

 

[Mogamedogz]

Feel like I need to pull a Harryboy for this thread.

WE DONT NEED ANYMORE OFFENSE.



/THREAD.

:singing::singing::singing:

 

[Brettlax3434]

Offence doesnt win championships, defence doesnt win championships, special teams doesnt win championships, balence does. The offence is fine, we need draft picks to fix up the weak parts of the defence.

 

[Mainefan]

I always feel as though I know football fairly well until I post here. That's when the learning begins. I started the thread by raising the question, but you guys have answered it with an exclamation mark. I offer a humble thank you.

 

[DW Toys]

I always feel as though I know football fairly well until I post here. That's when the learning begins. I started the thread by raising the question, but you guys have answered it with an exclamation mark. I offer a humble thank you.

Well I guess they bullied you into submission. These are just guys with opinions that do not mean crap and that is also including my opinions. They are not experts. They do not KNOW football. They have acquired a knowledge from watching and listening that makes for intelligent conversation, that's all.

If you have an opinion, it is good for you to send it out there. These guys are the same guys that laughed at me when I suggested Randy Moss like three or four years ago. The score was like 90% against and I was an idiot. Well I might still be an idiot but Moss ain't too bad here. These are the same guys who said Cassel would be a joke as a starting QB (ah...that would be me I am sorry to admit). But at the end of the day, it makes no difference because not one of us is a PATS front office employee.

Respect Miguel because he has a handle on his expertise but the rest of us are just frustrated GM's. Some of the negatives here are absurd like Gonzales not helping us an he is only worth a forth blah, blah, blah and we need to draft youngsters and then the "WE DO NOT NEED ANYMORE OFFENSE" baloney. Then at 14.5 sacks, Peppers is underrated stuff.

Hey I say lets get TJ and draft Harvin and consider any more weapons that we can get. That's like saying in a war, we have too many bullets. But.....again at the end of the day, there are no experts on this forum that any NFL team is prepared to hire. This is made for fun and conjecture, it does not make anybody on this site rich or famous. Just do your thing guy. Have fun. Throw stuff out there that makes us all think about it even if they hate on you (within reason). It made some of us think and some of us consider the idea as valid, You can't please all the people all the time.
DW Toys

 

[CrazyDave]

Right on.
Now lets get a weapon that shoots "Sack Bullets".

 

[Real World]

This trade would suck. While Gonzalez is a beast, it's not as if we're lacking in the pass department, and Johnson doesn't truly fill a need, since the Patriots have proven to run effectively with guys like Morris, Jordan, and Faulk. Also, there's that enigma named L.Maroney to consider. More importantly though, this proposed deal would do nothing to help the Patriots biggest problem, and that is defense. Why would the Pats add salary to the cap in an aging (still productive I know) gonzalez, and pushing 30 RB, when they could move Cassel for first days picks, and add young, cheap talent on the defensive side of the ball? I think this trade would suck, and I don;t see it as a possibility.