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Globe: Shanknancy joins the Manning>Brady club


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Boy! The Boston sportswriter elite are truly the most anti-Patriots group you could find in a single community anywhere in the country. Isnt that something?
You would think these guys would be writing something like - "No way Manning is better. Our boy has taken us to four super bowls and won three. The best anybody else has done is half of what our boy has accomplished". Instead, writers from elsewhere have to stand up for our guy.

New England folks truly love their Patriots. I have witnessed this for twenty five years since I moved here from India. You really have to wonder to which market Shaugnessey, Ryan, Borges, Jackie Mcmullan, Tomase, etc. cater to

They're terrified of being labeled "homers", they'd rather be labeled a gay pedophile than get the dreaded homer label.
 
Manning will need more than 1 Super Bowl Championship to be included amongst the all-time greats (especially considering his relatively mediocre performance in that game). Tomorrow could go a long way towards elevating him into the tier currently reserved for the likes of Unitas, Montana, Elway, Bradshaw and yes, Brady.

Are you saying Marino isn't considered an all-time great?

I hate Manning, hate him with a passion. I hate seeing his face on every other commercial during the football season, and hate how he sits there and calls audibles for 30 seconds a play, but people need to be real with this argument.

The point of the article is that Brady has passed the torch to Manning, and honestly I think he's right. Will Brady rebound and take that torch back? Who knows. He's getting more and more beat up, and part of it is his fault. Year after year, Manning is sacked in the teens, while Brady is sacked in the 20's. That's not all offensive line either, which is why i'm wondering how much more of a punishment Brady can take. Anyway..

Here are some facts...

- Manning has 20k more passing yards than Brady and 141 more TDs. Yes, he's played more seasons, but if you add in the 4 seasons, Brady would have to have four 5k yard / 35 TD seasons to match that.

- Brady has had some real stinkers of playoff games since 2004. He's had some solid ones too, but even in 2007, as the competition got stiffer, he looked worse. He threw 3 picks against the Chargers, and didn't exactly light up the scoreboard vs the Giants. Need I mention the Broncos in '06 or obviously this season.

This is not a bash on Brady, as i'm sure Pats fans will take it. I love the guy, but I am just facing reality. Right now, Manning is the better QB. Would I take him with the game on the line? Years past, that decision was easy.. Brady easily gets that pick. But now? It's hard to say
 
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Food for thought;

Average Stats Manning Vs Brady [Brady's 2000 + 2008 Excluded, wasn't a full starter]
4177 vs 3845 (Season)
30.5 vs 28.125 TD (Season)
17 vs 12.37 INTS (Season)
95.2 vs 93.3 Rating (Career average)


Their stats are pretty comparable, IMO. Yes, manning has a slightly better Rating.

Granted, I excluded 2 seasons of Brady's which brings his average slightly higher. However, I don't really think the 3 passes he threw in 2000 or the not even full drive he completed counts in 2008. Just my personal opinion.
 
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Tonight changes everything for a whole year.

Colts lose:

Brady=Manning with Brees the definitive 3rd now

Colts win

Manning>Brady
 
Manning will need more than 1 Super Bowl Championship to be included amongst the all-time greats (especially considering his relatively mediocre performance in that game). Tomorrow could go a long way towards elevating him into the tier currently reserved for the likes of Unitas, Montana, Elway, Bradshaw and yes, Brady.

Maybe in your eyes. But in the eyes of the overwhelming majority of people that follow the NFL, Peyton Manning is already included on the very short list of all-time greatest quarterbacks in NFL history. Today's outcome is irrelevant to his standing among history's elite.

Sorry, but it's true.
 
You again with the easy schedule huh?

2010 NFL Strength Of Schedule

The Colts had the 11th toughest schedule this year. Not the most difficult, but not easy either. Is a schedule that was in the top 3rd in difficulty "easy as hell?

Do you do any research before you say things or is it just "Colts bad..Patriots good" all the time with you?

This is awesome. The best thing about this post is Coltsfans having the nerve to ask if we do any research before we say things. He Coltsfans, a little information for ya, the link you provided is completely bogus! Or another way of putting it, you are completely and utterly wrong. The link you provided is 2009 strength of schedule for teams using the records from 2008! It came out at the beginning of the 2009 season. So its not an accurate account for how good of a team they were in 2009.

Example, the link you provided took into account that the Colts played the Titans twice. They used the Titans 2008 record of 13-3. So thats a 26-6 record when you face them twice as the Colts do. Where the Titans a 13-3 team in 2009? NO! They were a 8-8 team. Or 16-16 when facing them twice. Thats a 10 game difference from what this link claims.

The more accurate way to look at it is to look at the records from 2009, since the records of 2009 are a reflection of how they played in 2009. When using the 2009 records of the teams the Cotls played, the record comes to 121-135. 14 games below .500. So the claim that the Colts had an easy schedule this year is an accurate one.

Dont you hate it when facts get in the way?
 
Yeah, the Pats had a bad run game in 2003.

What was their D ranked?

What was it ranked in 2001?

What was it ranked in 2004?

The offense wasn't the backbone of those Pats SB wins. The D was.

If you're going to talk about "logical positions" at least be honest.

And as far as the Colts losing to an 8-8 SD team last year, remind me what the SD NE score from 08 was again?


Notice the subtle way that Colts fans like to change the subject once facts have been introduced to an arguement that help prove an theory in favor of Manning and the Colts wrong.

The original arguement was that Manning has the edge over Brady because he is in the SuperBowl this year with a no running game. See post #11 in this thread. The counter arguement was that Brady has WON TWO SUPERBOWLS, with insufficient grounds game as well. One of which was slightly worse then what Manning has this season. 3.4 ypc compared to 3.5 ypc. Really, they are the same. It was also pointed out (thread #13) that in the 2003 season, the one in whch the Pats had the 30th ranked 3.4 ypc ground game, he did not have they type of receiving weapons that Manning has this season in Wayne and Clark. No claims were ever made about how their defense were in those seasons. You want to make a claim that the Pats defense was the "backbone" in the 01,03 and 04 wins. Go right ahead. You're wrong, again. In 01 the Pats defense ranked 24th in the regular season in yards allowed and gave up a 4th qtr lead in the superbowl. In 2003 the Pats defense gave up 18 4th qtr points and 2 lead 4th qtr leads in that superbowl. Wow, what a backbone!
 
Who was at QB? Some guy who had never started a game before but still won 1 more game than the guy you all think is the "GOAT" around here.

I always thought of Coltsfans as being annoying, but I am starting to enjoy him. You make things way to easy. Do me a favor, stop comparing teams from different years. Making a claim about how the 2008 Pats with Cassel was compared to the 2009 Pats with Brady is ludicrous at best. You see, when making comparisons, they are more accurate when the variables are the same. However, comparing teams from different years changes just about every variable that comes into effect. The 2008 and 2009 Pats are different teams. With different players, coaches, personal and schemes. And they played a difference schedule, against different teams wth different players, coaches, personal and schemes. Some better, some worse. Whatever the case, different. So how can you compare the two.

You want another way of looking at it? Ok. If you want to compare how Cassel did with the Pats against how Brady did with the Pats then why not compare the 2008 Cassel lead Pats to the 2007 Brady lead Pats. You know, the year in which he was not coming of a major injury that caused him to miss an entire season of football.

The 2008 Cassel lead Pats were 11-5 and missed the playoffs. The 2007 Brady lead Pats went 16-0 and were 2 minutes aways from a perfect season and SuperBowl victory.

The 2008 Cassel lead Pats averaged 25.6 ppg, the 2007 Brady lead Pats averaged 36.8 ppg. Thats and 11.2 difference in favor of Brady.

In 2008 Cassel had 21 tds, 3693 yards and a rating of 89.4. In 2007 Brady had 50 tds, 4806 yards and a rating of 117.2.
 
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They're terrified of being labeled "homers", they'd rather be labeled a gay pedophile than get the dreaded homer label.

Same deal with their message board counterparts... It feeds their egos because they believe it projects superior intellect to be potentially wrong as a critical observer than right as just another appreciative, fortunate to be along for the ride observer.

I was listening to WEEI in the car and one of the lightweight weekend hosts was on with Rob Bradford. This clown was absolutely losing it and going off on Belichick's ego and the imminent demise of the organization and suddenly Bradford came to life and said <paraphrasing> wait a minute, are you telling me because BB isn't naming coordinators and the team hasn't been to a superbowl in TWO seasons we should all assume it's indicative of an organizational collapse?? Of an organization by the way that has always run almost as precisely as a military training academy where information is collected or guarded like national secrets and no rock is left unturned and deals are made under almost covert cover. Isn't it a hell of a leap to assume that same organization has suddenly turned into a dynfunctional loony bin because Belichick has done something media members and fans with little understanding of how he ever operated or accomplished all he did don't agree with what he's doing??

It was classic mediot on idiot mediot crime.
 
Same deal with their message board counterparts... It feeds their egos because they believe it projects superior intellect to be potentially wrong as a critical observer than right as just another appreciative, fortunate to be along for the ride observer.

I was listening to WEEI in the car and one of the lightweight weekend hosts was on with Rob Bradford. This clown was absolutely losing it and going off on Belichick's ego and the imminent demise of the organization and suddenly Bradford came to life and said <paraphrasing> wait a minute, are you telling me because BB isn't naming coordinators and the team hasn't been to a superbowl in TWO seasons we should all assume it's indicative of an organizational collapse?? Of an organization by the way that has always run almost as precisely as a military training academy where information is collected or guarded like national secrets and no rock is left unturned and deals are made under almost covert cover. Isn't it a hell of a leap to assume that same organization has suddenly turned into a dynfunctional loony bin because Belichick has done something media members and fans with little understanding of how he ever operated or accomplished all he did don't agree with what he's doing??

It was classic mediot on idiot mediot crime.
I heard the same passage and reacted much as you did. The lightweight to whom you refer has an appropriate nick-name: Mutt...
 
Tonight changes everything for a whole year.

Colts lose:

Brady=Manning with Brees the definitive 3rd now

Colts win

Manning>Brady

Except Brady will still be better win or lose

3>1
3>2
 
This is awesome. The best thing about this post is Coltsfans having the nerve to ask if we do any research before we say things. He Coltsfans, a little information for ya, the link you provided is completely bogus! Or another way of putting it, you are completely and utterly wrong. The link you provided is 2009 strength of schedule for teams using the records from 2008! It came out at the beginning of the 2009 season. So its not an accurate account for how good of a team they were in 2009.

Example, the link you provided took into account that the Colts played the Titans twice. They used the Titans 2008 record of 13-3. So thats a 26-6 record when you face them twice as the Colts do. Where the Titans a 13-3 team in 2009? NO! They were a 8-8 team. Or 16-16 when facing them twice. Thats a 10 game difference from what this link claims.

The more accurate way to look at it is to look at the records from 2009, since the records of 2009 are a reflection of how they played in 2009. When using the 2009 records of the teams the Cotls played, the record comes to 121-135. 14 games below .500. So the claim that the Colts had an easy schedule this year is an accurate one.

Dont you hate it when facts get in the way?

Thanks for doing that for me.
 
I don't understand the need for this eternal Manning vs. Brady debate. Two very different quarterbacks, styles and systems, supporting casts, playing environments and levels of experience.
 
I don't understand the need for this eternal Manning vs. Brady debate. Two very different quarterbacks, styles and systems, supporting casts, playing environments and levels of experience.

I was listening to a comedian, who said that men feminists are right and that our world was destroyed by men fighting over whos **** is bigger. I think this is an extension of that theory.
 
I don't understand the need for this eternal Manning vs. Brady debate. Two very different quarterbacks, styles and systems, supporting casts, playing environments and levels of experience.

I agree, there are far too many variable to consider.

Most writers and commentators are going by the "eyeball test" when they say Manning is better than Brady. They may haphazardly throw some stats in to support their argument, but these kind of statements almost always come down to gut reactions. That being said, if we are being honest with ourselves it is clear that this season Manning has played better than Brady. However, this does not mean that he is the better quarterback in the historical sense, which is the case that is being made.

The most obvious issue is that Manning has a huge advantage in terms of recent body of work. Brady did not play the 08 season and was coming back from a catastrophic injury in the 09 season. There is bound to be a major drop in performance during an absence like this, but it is rarely mentioned.

Even disregarding the recent history, there are so many differences to take into account that this question can never truly be an "apples to apples" comparison. Beyond the fact that you have a different supporting cast on defense for each player, the organizational structure around both is completely different. The Patriots have built teams with balance in mind, while the Colts consistently consider their offense first. Having Manning surrounded with the weapons he needs to be successful is clearly their number one priority.

The environmental factor has to be taken into play as well. Manning plays half his games every year inside a climate controlled dome, while Brady has to face the New England winter as each season goes on. Site whatever stats you like, playing inside the dome is the clear choice any quarterback would make to ensure they give their best performance. The benefits cannot be more apparent than they have been this year, as the Colts have hosted two teams in the playoffs who are built for cold weather football. Taking away one of the strengths of these teams gives the Colts, and by extension Manning, a huge advantage.

Another element which is disregarded by most commentators is the changes which took place within the NFL, namely the rule changes which have coincided with Manning's improved performance each year. In a decade in which offenses have played under what is essentially two different sets of rules, one which heavily favors the passing game, it becomes almost impossible to judge which player is better. Before the rule changes, Manning struggled heartily against quality defenses, namely the Patriots. Since the changes were made, he has steadily improved to where now he challenges pass defenses throughout the league. It is no coincidence that the rule changes were pushed through by parties with a vested interest in helping Manning perform better.

There are numerous other factors that one could list which make a tremendous difference in how each player has performed and which determine who is "better", however these are the ones which are immediately apparent. Commentators will of course continue to make these arguments, and fans will continue to take great offense at them. I'm not sure which is more pointless.
 
Except Brady will still be better win or lose

3>1
3>2

Montana has more SB rings than Brady, but i'd rather have Brady right now. The point of the article is the current torch being passed, it's not who's had a more successful career. Right now, Manning is the best QB in the NFL, there is little debate about that regardless of the outcome of the Superbowl.
 
Nice SB choke, Manning.
 
And the debate lives on Shanks....
 
hey shanks..........kiss my ass.

Shanks should have waited for the game to be played before he wrote that rediculous article.

Kiss my ass too CHB
 
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