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Global Climate Change for Conservatives

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by wistahpatsfan, Feb 3, 2007.

  1. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    The report has been released by the international network of climate scientists that puts the cause on human activity as being "very likely" (90% probability). I've been holding judgement on this issue for a long time, but this report has forced me to accept that Global warming has to be addressed as probably the most important crisis our civilization has ever been faced with. Immediate action has already been implemented by the world's more responsible and forward thinking corporations, but the culture in general continues to proceed as if this is a less than important factor in their decisions.

    As an old-school conservative, I am strongly urging all of us to finally get our heads out of the sand on this issue. You wouldn't pick a stock that has a 90% chance of losing money. You wouldn't send your kid to a school where 90% of graduates can't get a good job. Why on Earth would you ignore this report?

    “In our daily lives, we all respond urgently to dangers that are much less likely than climate change to affect the future of our children,” said Achim Steiner, executive director of the U.N. Environment Program, which administers the panel along with the World Meteorological Organization.

    When you combine the likely disasterous effects of continued climate change, with the evidence of the effects of environmental toxins in the population (increased rates of alzheimers, autism, and other neural-developmental maladies), how can one make the arguement against changing the way we do business and live our lives? I know it's hard for us to accept change, but these changes that will be required of us will be nothing to the changes our future generations will need to make if we do nothing.
     
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There are 2 reports 1 written by bureaucrats for the general public, another written by the scientist. Scientist who were involved in the process, have said the science isn't good enough to assign any % to the doomsday scenario painted by the bureaucrats. A few resigned before the report was written because of the rigging of the outcome by the IPCC (ie the UN). Why would the bureaucrats and many scientist try to create a panic?


    MONEY MONEY MONEY

    Do you as a 'conservative' realize that at the core of the Kyoto accords and the carbon goals are carbon taxes to be paid by the industrialized countries (but not the Chicoms) and distributed to the 3rd world countries.

    Guess who get to administer and levy the taxes?????????

    The UN the same people who brought us the Scandel and Graft ridden Food for Oil program.


    I will post more about the science later gotta run now.
     
  3. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Get off Kyoto. I'm not talking about a treaty or the Ufriggin N. I'm talking about a mindset - a mindset of conservation and love for our kids. If all you can think about is the reactions and mindset of other countries and how "they're not pulling their weight so why should we?", then my point is totally missed on you. This isn't about keeping score. This is about how we as Americans should act in the future and actually be a world leader and example. We can't worry about how other countries pollute because we can't force them to do anything. What about the toxins effecting the living things in our backyard (yourself included).
     
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm all for addressing Global Warming as long as they blame the whole world and not just
    "The Bush America"

    Send somebody over to Africa to teach them how to "Bury" a dead body instead of throwiing it in the river.

    Force John Fonda Kerry to use a roof rack on a Volvo instead of a Gas Guzzling Suv for his surfboard.

    Kill Cows, send Michael Moore to the North Pole and make him stay there, send Mike Tyson with him.

    Make Robert Kennedy Jr sell his private Jet.

    Have a party when Castro dies and then destroy all the 1955 Chevy's that the people drive and push around Cuba, when a cab in cuba drives down the street the smoke coming out of the rear end makes it appear as if it were burning wood.

    Make Britney Spears wear her underwear.
     
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The UN implementing Kyoto is what all this is about. The scientist in many (certainly not all) cases have a vested in the Global Warming Industry. The governments that support them and give them grants stand to benefit from the taxes collected.

    There is no persuasive evidence that the current warming spell is caused by anything other than natural cycles and processes.

    The people promoting this report are the same folks who were warning about an impending ice age 30 years ago, they proclaimed a crisis and demanded immediate action, including dumping soot on the polar ice caps to met them.

    During the middle ages the temps were ~3C warmer than they are now, there was less disease and none of the problems being predicted by the alarmist.

    This isn't about the welfare of our children (BTW I love my kids as much as you and don't want them to face a bleak future). This is about power and money, not science. Science proposed theories and then measure how the theory matches the data and predicts the futre. Current Global Warming alarmist have not met that test. The fact that they are trying to shout down dissenting scientist speaks volumes about the weakness of the theory.

    When you take the data we have collected over the past 150 years and apply the computer model used by the Global warming industry guess what. They can't predict the temps we currently observe. IOW garbage in garbage out. The computer models are wrong.
     
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Kyoto is not a good treaty in terms of our economic interests, unless we consider that we have a huge advantage over less developed countries to develop technologies that support Kyoto and to profit from them. The less developed countries simply can't afford to tell everyone to buy new cars. There are currently two solutions to this world wide problem: Kyoto or claim global warming doesn't really exist. The latter are clearly losing the battle. The ones who hang on are bizarre cospiracy theorists who think that the majority of scientists are on the take, and the only ones you can trust are those funded by major polluters!
     
  7. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Kyoto is a distrurbingly politcal treaty which is not aimed at solving a pollution problem as much as it is aimed at socialization of the planet. When you run a trety that permits massively expanding countries which eqaul more than half of the world population, you've lost credibility. China, Indi, Russia, etc. were all excluded from having to comply with other nations. Sorry, total UN, socialize the world crap. If we, as a nation, want to implement stricter environmental standards on our own, which would affect this country, and would be set by this country, independent of the UN scum, then I'm all ears. What do people have in mind? Where I refuse to play, is with the UN, or "international" crowd. I simply do not trust them at all, and would never want to subject our soveriegnty to their jurisdiction. I think we're smart enough to set our own standards. If politicians start clamoring for us to bend over for socialism, I'll vehemently oppose it. Looking at the UN & at the growth of the EU, all I see is a conglomerate trying to make the world one nation, under one rule. No thanks.
     
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The third is to recognize that we are witnessing Solar system warming currently, and that in the recent past we have had periods that are warmer than we see currently with no ill effects to the planet's eco-system.
     
  9. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Link please....I'm worried about my friends on Saturn.
     
  10. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    I fully support reducing the amount of toxins released into the atmosphere, especially burnt coal, oil, and gasoline gases. These pollutants are CLEARLY detrimental to the health of ANY living organism.

    As to whether or not these pollutants are causing the climate to change, I am still not convinced. The earth has gone through many climate changes in its history: the saber-tooth tiger and woolly mammoth remains discovered up in Alaska and northern Canada, as well as in Siberia, indicate that those now "frigid" regions were once far warmer. The plant life fossils up there are also akin to tropical ferns and trees, as well.

    Where I live in northeast Europe was once covered under a half mile of solid ice and snow-pack!! Yet we are the world's major source of amber, a fossilized resin product (as seen in "Jurassic Park") that comes from pine tree sap millions of years old.

    Go figure.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2007
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If we want to do the right thing, we will be in compliance with Kyoto and there's no need to sign on. The only relevance of the treaty is if we fail to be in compliance. So, I presume you are against us cutting emissions at the rate the UN wants them cut? Why?

    And, why the knee jerk reaction to the idea of one world, one nation, one rule? Every superpower in history has given up its opportunity to remake the world because it wasn't willing to compromise. Here is the United States, the sole superpower. By working with the world, we can use our power to get 90% of what we want in most cases, and in turn move the world in our direction. I think when the United States fails to work with the UN, it's a lost opportunity for American power and prestige.
     
  12. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sure:http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/19980526052143data_trunc_sys.shtml

    http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/mars_snow_011206-2.html

    http://environment.newscientist.com/article/mg19325884.500-suns-fickle-heart-may-leave-us-cold.html

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...18.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/18/ixnewstop.html

    http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/Cosmic_rays_and_climate.htm


    http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Exploding_Stars_Influence_Climate_Of_Earth_999.html

    http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060504_red_jr.html


    Whatever the mechanism if the solar system as a whole is warming then I need to have a better explanation of why man is causing the warming we observe locally rather than earth feeling the effects of whatever mechanism are warming the rest of the solar system.
     
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    patsfan13, I don't think anyone disputes there are natural forces at play. What you seem to dispute is that there are human forces at play as well. The human contribution has caused global warming to occur more rapidly since the Industrial Revolution, and analysis of ice dating back 650,000 years shows CO2 particles are at record high levels. Maybe we could more easily withstand the human contribution if we weren't in a natural global warming cycle, but because we are, we need to address this problem now for the sake of future generations. At any rate, when it comes to our global environment, it's better to err on the side of caution.

    Again, the human contribution to global warming is IN ADDITION to natural factors that contribute to global warming, but what's most striking is how things have changed since the Industrial Revolution, when humankind became far more environmentally destructive. At any rate, here's a link with some science for you:

    http://www.whrc.org/resources/online_publications/warming_earth/scientific_evidence.htm
     
  14. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Hey Patters, how about if you help by reducing your human contribution and leave me and my contribution out of it. It's none of your business to tell me how to live.
     
  15. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sorry, but we share this world and are stuck with a shared RESPONSIBILITY.
     
  17. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Yes and while we're at it lets repeal all the traffic laws. You can chose to continue driving on the right side of the road if you wish and I'll chose to drive on whatever side strikes my fancy. Because its nobody's business to tell me how to drive.
     
  18. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Whatever the mechanism if the solar system as a whole is warming then I need to have a better explanation of why man is causing the warming we observe locally rather than earth feeling the effects of whatever mechanism are warming the rest of the solar system.[/QUOTE]An article about the work of two scientists from 2004, while very interesting, is not current enough and has no indication of peer review or comfirmation. In any field of study, there will be dissenting opinions that don't find their way into the general collective consensus. There have been thousands of papers published between 2004 and now that say there has been no evolution and that humans co-existed with dinosaurs. Again, very interesting, but not accepted by the scientific community.

    Other articles you cite involve the mechanisms of plaets and moons that have nothing to do with terrestrial events. Why bother with a link that discusses the "warming" of Troton as being related to the reflectivity dynamics of the surface which effects the heat absorption rate of the surface? Interesting if you're into that (and I am, thanks), but not relevant to the discussion.

    Cosmic rays from exploding stars? Certainly a phenomenon that occurs, but it wasn’t explained why there is not a constant supply of exploding stars at a consistent rate. Imagine the infinite number of stars in the universe. The rate of stellar supernova events is fairly steady overall. You don’t have a sudden rash of exploding stars or a lull in their demise, do you? True, while the proximity of an event may vary, I suspect that overall, the rate of cosmic rays is steady and not related to climate change.

    Junk science is a website specifically dedicated to the de-bunking of climate change science. I read it and many scientists do , too. It is not accepted by most scientists as being a good source. It’s right up there with “creationism.org”.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2007
  19. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I don't do anything to hurt global warming. I use little energy. I don't drive long distances. My cars aren't too old and have never failed a smog test. And yet I have to pay for it because of you freaks and your dumb ass theories.

    Go away.
     
  20. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    :confused:

    I would be breaking the law. As I just stated, I do NOTHING to hurt global warming EVEN IF YOU ASSUME CARS DO HURT IT WHICH I DON'T. And, yet, I am presumed guilty and have to pay for it.

    Driving laws are an individual thing because one person violating it can kill. "Global Warming" is a cumulative thing. What I do is irrelevant if you balance it out. So if those of who who don't believe change nothing and those of you who do all sell your cars - you still win. So have fun at the bike store today.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2007

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