Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by R_T26, Mar 12, 2006.
old qb, no oline, only 6M under the cap. rebuilding. come on David
The more he visits teams and leaves without a deal the more I like it.
David Givens is a figment of your imagination.
Wow, the Texans and the Titans. That Givens is all about winning isn't he.
Yep. Doesn't sound like he's getting his socks blown off with offers. When a guy is visiting bottom feeders like the Texans and not getting the big bucks, maybe he needs to rethink the demand.
Must suck when a player finds out the Pats were right, huh?
Givens is one of the few guys I don't mind watching go SOLELY for the money. The guy was making (relative) chump-change for his entire rookie deal. He deserves to set himself up for life with this contract. I hope we give it to him, as long as it's realistic, but I don't begrudge him trying to get every penny he can.
I see comments like this a lot and I've always thought the same thing, so please don't think I'm ripping you personally. I just happen to be responding to this one.
Just because someone is interested in teams with poor records, it doesn't mean they're only interested in money and nothing else. It's the NFL. Look at us. I'm sure everyone remembers that article before the 2001 season that polled a bunch of NFL personnel and concluded that the Patriots were the least likely to win a Super Bowl in the next five years. Five years later we're arguably the greatest team in NFL history. The Panthers fought us to the very end in the Super Bowl just two years after being 1-15. Arizona now looks like a dangerous team all because of one big signing.
Givens has won Super Bowls. Sometimes people are looking for a new challenge. Think about high school football. Would it mean more to you to be a part of the California De LaSalle football team in the middle of their 100+ straight wins several years back, or part of a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 50 years and then wins the state championship? It obviously feels good to know that you were a reason that a team became special. Maybe Givens is hoping he can do that.
Givens is still very young and has plenty of football ahead of him. He has the time to be a part of a team that improves over the years and possibly becomes elite. He doesn't have to limit himself only to teams that are guaranteed playoff contenders next year.
Understood but the probability of winning in the next five years with the Titans or Texans is way lower than with the Patriots. Clearly it's not zero but it's not high.
Now, if I had the chance at 5 years $20M there (he won't get the $25M he wants IMO) vs. maybe 5 years $12M in New England I may take the money too. But if he goes to one of those teams it is for the money as the probability of winning is low.
No, me neither. The only problem that I have is the inevitable assertion by some that the Patriots didn't do enough to keep him. You'd think that the 5 for 25 news would take care of that, but it won't.
I really like Givens (I felt the offense this year really suffered when he was out) but as far as the chump change thing, he IS a 7th round pick in just his fourth year, and his best seasons were 56-874-3, and 59-738-2. There's more to Givens besides numbers, but there's also nothing earth shattering there either.
I suppose they could have thrown a bunch of money at him after his first 50 catch season, but one of the reasons they've been able to build deep championship teams is that they have taken great advantage of the leverage they have in situations just like this one.
"Understood but the probability of winning in the next five years with the Titans or Texans is way lower than with the Patriots. Clearly it's not zero but it's not high."
Sure, we're better set to win right now than the Texans or Titans but that's not the point. Again, five years ago we were voted as the team with no future. Things change rapidly.
It's not always about going to the team that guarantees you the most wins. If that was the case, we should have a much more loaded roster because everyone should be clammering to join the Patriots. (along with other top teams) Like I said, it's about the feeling that you were the reason a team turned it around. How many coaches over the years have left great teams and ended up taking jobs with bad ones later on? It's about the challenge.
Also, I forgot to mention that Givens is from Texas, so playing so close to home is obviously a big plus. Also, with him growing up in Texas, it's very possible he's a fan of the Oilers/Titans and always dreamed of playing for them.
I just don't like how it just has to be all about money if a player signs with a low-level team. LeCharles Bentley signed with Cleveland. He's from Ohio and went to Ohio State. He said before free agency started that he'd love to sign with Cleveland. Should we criticize him if he turned down an offer from a team with a better record?
I agree totally.
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