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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Ian, May 11, 2013.

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  1. Ian

    Ian Administrator Staff Member

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    #17 Jersey

  2. Pats0204

    Pats0204 Rookie

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    #91 Jersey

    Thanks for the reminder Ian. Just voted.....
  3. Gwedd

    Gwedd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    I voted as well. It was actually a difficult choice.
  4. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I went with Bruschi - even though I usually favor the old school guys.

    Fairbanks is worthy certainly - for the time I was ecstatic with the success of an 11-3 season - but given the success the team has had in the Bruschi era, that just doesn't stack up in wins - and most certainly is lacking in Super Bowls.

    Bruschi set the tone for the entire defense - perhaps the entire team - and the effects of his work ethic an attitude can still be sensed in the team today, long after he's been retired.

    The rings also speak for themselves.

    No offense to Chuck - who deserves the posthumous honor too - but I'm going with Bruschi.
  5. Gwedd

    Gwedd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    I voted for Leon Gray. Man was a beast on the field, and a gentleman off it. He and Hannah were just amazing to watch back then.

    To my mind, Bruschi is also worthy, but he's still young and could (and should) get in on a later ballot.

    Just my opinion and nothing more.

    V/R
  6. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    well...I don't LIKE your opinion...in fact...I think it stinks!...Brewskis played 12 seasons for our beloved Pats and came from a dyam stroke to play for us until he quit!!!...the other two guys were only here for five years...OK....so Fairbanks should have been here at least ten years but the Sullys felt he was too expensive...and Leon???.,..he had the nerve to ask for the same money his partner on the line wanted when the two of them held out...well...do not EVER screw around with the President of the Genius Party, Billy Sullivan...so Trader Bill shipped him off to Houston for a 1st and a 6th round pick after five seasons and being first team all pro THAT last year...

    Shortly before the start of the 1979 NFL season, Gray was traded to the Oilers for first and sixth-round draft picks. Patriots management saw the deal as a money-saving move. Upon hearing the news, John Hannah said, "We just traded away our Super Bowl." Ron Erhardt, who had replaced Chuck Fairbanks as the team's head coach, also admitted that he was against the trade. Gray's one-time opponent and now Oiler teammate, Elvin Bethea, would later say that the trade for Gray was one of the happiest days of his life.

    Hmmmmm...wait a minute Gwedd..,. I take it all back...You are right. Bru has plenty of time, in fact, NEXT year, to get voted in. We OWE IT to Leon as Pats fans to remember what a great Patriot he was.
  7. eagle eye

    eagle eye Rookie

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    #85 Jersey

    I voted for Bruschi. 13 seasons, involved for all our Superbowl wins and the unbeaten season and a great one all through. I think he deserves to go in first time.
  8. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    I voted for the populist choice, Bruschi, because of his longevity.

    Leon Gray and Chuck Fairbanks did not spend a long time with the Patriots due to Chuck Sullivan.

    Fairbanks was a football coach with name recognition who built a lousy team into a winner. He could watch a bunch of players and spot the good ones
    right away. He saw the handwriting on the wall when Chuck Sullivan began to interfer in contract negotiations.

    Leon Gray and John Hannah were one of the best tackle/guard combinations
    in NFL history. Again, Chuck Sullivan stepped into the picture. Gray and
    Hannah held out after the 1976 season because contract agreements
    negotiated by Fairbanks were negated by Sullivan. Shortly after Fairbanks
    left, Gray was traded.
  9. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    No Jersey Selected

    I'm not voting for anyone until Houston Antwine returns to the ballot.
    It's shameful enough that he isn't already in the Pats HOF.
  10. Ian

    Ian Administrator Staff Member

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    #17 Jersey

    Today's the last day - be sure to get your vote in :cool:
  11. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Yeah - WTF is up with that? Is he now just forever off the ballot?

    I tend to go with the old timers first - but I factor in years played, AFC Championships, NFL Championships, as well as stats and the intangibles.

    No one's saying Fairbanks and Gray aren't worthy - but they just don't stack up to Brucshi's longevity, rings, and the intangibles leadership that continues to have an impact even today

    I almost don't care who guys like Bruschi and Brady are up against when their Patriots HOF eligibility comes up. They both should get in on the first ballot.
  12. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I looked at it as if it was a mercy rule, in his memory, to spare the indignity of coming up short yet again. When you leave this decision up to the voting of the fans, the person who played most recently has a decided advantage.

    On the other hand you have a guy who 99% of the fan base never saw play; did not play a so-called 'skill position', to gloss over those stats; played before many stats were kept for his position; and did not stay in the fan base's collective minds by being on the radio or television after his playing days were over. That player has absolutely no shot at being voted in under those circumstances.

    The toughest obstacle he had to overcome is time. I have seen not only fans, but even writers that are on the nomination committee make the comment that 'if he was that good, why isn't he in the Pats Hall of Fame already?', and with that simply decide that he isn't worthy.

    Damn shame, because he deserved to be if not the first, then at least the second person to be enshrined in to the Patriots HoF. Whatever it was, he must have said or done something that really pissed some of the old time writers off for them to hold that kind of a grudge.
    Last edited: May 14, 2013
  13. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    Bruschi

    I have a hard time justifying anyone who was only with the team for 5 years, no matter how good they are. The Pats HOF should be about the guys who were kind of the team's emotional/etc center. Guys like Bruschi, or Troy Brown.

    Neither was good enough that they should sniff the real HOF, but when I think "Patriots", they're who I think of.

    Brady and Wilfork are probably the next two I'd put in.
  14. rlcarr

    rlcarr PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    So how exactly does the ballot work? Are you on it once and if not elected never get on it again? Are you eligible for X years? Can you get on it again whenever the nominating committee decides to put you back on it?
  15. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Each year starts with a clean slate. The nomination committee talks it over behind closed doors, and come up with three candidates. In theory the fact that you were on the ballot previously has no bearing on whether or not you are nominated in the future. You could be placed on the ballot once, and never reappear; you could also show up on the ballot every single year, for eternity.

    Previous nominees named as finalists; the first one was voted in that year:
    2007: Stanley Morgan, Ben Coates, Ron Burton
    2008: Ben Coates, Jim Nance, Jon Morris
    2009: Jim Nance, Houston Antwine, Jon Morris
    2010: Sam Cunningham, Houston Antwine, Jon Morris
    2011: Drew Bledsoe, Houston Antwine, Bill Parcells
    2012: Troy Brown, Bill Parcells, Fred Marion


    Fan voting began in 2007; Sullivan, Morris and Santos were not part of that process. Morris was chosen by the veteran's committee (over Antwine) in 2011; they get to add one player every five years. I believe it was Robert Kraft who decided to add the other two for their contributions, but I'm not positive about that.


    Here is a list of who is in:

    John Hannah (1991)
    Nick Buoniconti (1992)
    Gino Cappelletti (1992)
    Bob Dee (1993)
    Jim Lee Hunt (1993)
    Babe Parilli (1993)
    Steve Nelson (1993)
    Mike Haynes (1994)
    Steve Grogan (1995)
    Andre Tippett (1999)
    Bruce Armstrong (2001)
    Stanley Morgan (2007)
    Ben Coates (2008)
    Jim Nance (2009)
    Billy Sullivan (2009)
    Sam Cunningham (2010)
    Drew Bledsoe (2011)
    Jon Morris (2011)
    Troy Brown (2012)
    Gil Santos (2013)

    The nominating committee consists of:
    - Ernie Adams, Patriots' research director
    - Ron Borges of the Boston Herald
    - Dick Cerasuolo of the Worcester Telegram & Gazette (retired)
    - Jim Donaldson of the Providence Journal
    - Mark Farinella of The Sun Chronicle
    - Glen Farley of The Brockton Enterprise
    - Ron Hobson of The Patriot Ledger (retired)
    - Carlo Imelio of the Springfield Union-News (retired)
    - Gil Santos, retired play-by-play announcer
    - Howard Ulman of the Associated Press
    - Chris Price of WEEI.com
    - Mike Reiss of espnBoston
    - Paul Perillo of Patriots Football Weekly
    - Matt Smith of Patriots All Access
    - Steve Burton of WBZ
    - Mike Lynch of WCVB
    - John Hendry of the Patriots' statistical staff
    - Bryan Morry of The Hall at Patriot Place
    - Andre Tippett, Hall of Fame linebacker

    Team Equipment Manager Don Brocher was also a member of the committee, but he died last January.
  16. rlcarr

    rlcarr PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    Great info -- thanks!
  17. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    Well, I voted for Bruschi, Leon not being around as long, but i am sick they couldn't have just put Antwine in before he died.

    Wasn't really a matter of choice IMO, he should have been one of the first five in easy. Oh well.

    I suppose he might get in with a veteran pick, but 5 years is too long IMO.

    As for Gray, I'd put Ray Clayborn and Julius Adams in first. 10-15 years service at a high level through good and bad. It's more than just a talent contest for a few years, plus Hannah made players around him look better.
  18. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    Veterans committee every 5 years. Way too long. Jon Morris was the first vet.
  19. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    Looking at the list, I'd say he should have been no lower than fourth in. He was the best lineman, yet Dee and Hunt went in. Actually I think Larry Eisenhauer was the second best lineman. (am i wrong?) They must have had some real political cliques back then, not surprising on a team that wasn't exactly covered in glory some of those years.
  20. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    How the heck did Borges end up with a vote here?
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