Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DisgruntledTunaFan, Jun 3, 2010.
YouTube - George W. Bush "I Would Waterboard Again!"
Can't watch youtube, but I'm a fan of waterboarding, so I guess "Go Bush"!
At some point, an American soldier will be captured and waterboarded and suddenly the righties will recognize it as torture. Barbaric behavior should not be sanctioned by the government, and as yet there's little evidence that waterboarding worked and even less evidence that it worked better than other methods, such as the interrogation techniques used by the FBI.
Good for him, the middle east dogs laugh at waterboarding, they can show you what real torture is.
Where can I sign up to be waterboarded? I'd much prefer that to having my beheading ending up on the internet.
Perhaps. How ironic though that the fates of many our our soldiers and journalists would have been so much better if their treatment at the hands of our enemies would have been limited to just that. Why is it that its that treatment that escapes the headlines here?
There is legitimate debate over the effectiveness of it but the motivation for it's use is to save lives.
Truth. Then again we're nnot too shabby in that dept either. I'm sure waterboarding is extremely unpleasant but I can think of worse fates than that.
IIRC, no American soldiers that have been captured, have ever been returned alive. So if WB'ing is the worst that would happen, I think our bravest in arms would breathe a sigh of relief.
We can only wish that our soldiers were treated like we treat their leaders.
D Pearl says hi.
there are some things that the public is better off not knowing about...let the professionals protect the country and the public can worry about other stuff, like oil spills.
Waterboarding has been prosecuted as far back as the Spanish-American war.
Interesting to see an American president admit to torture.
Go to Jail, go DIRECTLY TO JAIL! Do not pass GO!, do not collect $200
So glad this piece of &*%t is no longer our president.
Thank goodness Obama's put a stop to all that. AOL Search
Good old Bush!
He's like herpes, he'll go away but he's always there lol.....
For some reason it continues to amaze me to see people point to other nations', or people's, behavior as justification for our own.
If there's some principle behind a belief that waterboarding isn't torture, or torture is OK, fine -- but the notion that we're not as bad as some really bad people isn't a particularly compelling defense.
With all due respect, Boxer...bullsh!t.
You do what you're told by our laws and civilians in this country. The president, joint chiefs and pentagon are not above the law just because operations are beyond the borders. Just because the military does a very difficult job in a complete hell hole like the Middle East does not give it the authority to do whatever it wants to do. What makes you think anyone has that right?
I understand your point, and don't disagree with it in a general sense, but it's all relative, isn't it? If you're chopping off the arms of bank robbers, and you're pointing to the fact that Nation X beheads them, then I agree. However, if you're waterboarding captured terrorists, while terrorists are mutilating, murdering, and beheading those they hold, then I think your position loses a bit.
I don't think it is relative if the question is whether what we're doing is OK. If we think torture is wrong, or ineffective, we shouldn't be doing it. What other people -- including those we are potentially torturing -- do doesn't matter.
(Now, if you want to take that into consideration in determining the "right" way to handle them, that could be valid, imo. But then we need to decide whether we're punishing them or interrogating them.)
The right to survive? We're fighting people who don't adhere to any rules or laws of warfare. Imposing rules upon ourselves just so some people can "feel good" about themselves in the morning doesn't save lives, it costs them.
Again, I don't disagree. However, one question that would have to be answered, which is again relative, is what constitutes torture. What is "bad behavior" so to speak. Life isn't always black or white. I do agree with your general point, but I think that there are limitations to it's application. One could argue that dropping two nukes on Japan was "bad behavior". Some would point to the attrocities committed by the Japanese as a defense of their use. Does that make dropping the nukes wrong? To some maybe, to others no. While it's not the same thing, or may be a poor comparison, I'm merely trying to make the point that sometimes difficult decisions have to be made. Decisions that we might not like, but understand will save lives. Where that line is, I don't know, which is why I say it's all relative to the situation at hand.
Prove that torture saves lives in the balance. How did we win WWII without torturing people? You can't torture just to make yourself feel good temporarily.
Killing innocent people doesn't cause their relatives to become radicalized either, huh?
Torture and killing people is what makes people feel good with revers results. I'd feel pain free if i did crack, but that would be bad in the long run, wouldn't it?
Having this discussion in 2010 is as frustrating as talking about religion. You like torture. I don't. No compromise. Only difference is I'm right because of the FREAKING LAW!
We tortured people in WW2. Did it in WW1 too. Also in Vietnam. Not 100% sure about Korea, but that war is still going on so what does that say?
Anyway, I'm not a big "pro-torture" guy, but I think your definition of torture is a bit extreme. My thoughts of torture are cutting people up, electricution, beating them... PHYSICALLY DAMAGING things. The recent anti-torture definition seems to be anything that makes someone uncomfortable. Can we keep them cold (but not freezing..) no, can we keep them awake? no. Can we flash lights at them and play rock or rap music? no. Can we force water down their throat? no. I get where people are against waterboarding. It's not fun, but it does no permenant bodily damage which is why I am for it.
And "LAW" is debatable, another reason why I hate politicians. I like China where if you break in to a school and attack kids with a knife, within a month you have had your trial AND your execution! Here law is just a political tool for allowing people to do whatever they want. If they don't like the definition of the law, they pay people to debate why it's being misinterpretted. But that's a whole nother can of worms.
Personally, I'd prefer we just have a branch of our military trained by Mossad forces. That would be fantastic!
So...you like China, huh? The new chic fascism...you sure about that?
Prove that torture works to our advantage and not for some sort of righteous justification or retribution. And no, I don't think that keeping someone uncomfortable is torture. Otherwise we would have banned reality shows about dwarf families and hoarders a long time ago... not to mentiopn guys like this:
I'm a fan of their legal system for murderers.
I would be GLAD to prove torture works. However, to do so, you'll have to agree to make it legal so we can use it first!
And the reality show part... SO true.
The people that you talk about are not soldiers of another nation state so they have no protection under the Geneva Convention.
Would they waterboard a US soldier? If that's all they do then the US soldier would consider himself fortunate.
i was not talking about the military, i am refering to the agencies that, like it or not, actually run this country
Separate names with a comma.