Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by mikey, Jul 22, 2006.
Dont worry NEM..I've got you covered:
Hillary's "etiquette squads."
Here is an atricle about Kathleen Willey's cat
wow dude, that Clinton sh!+ is f****ed up! I even want her to run in '08 so we can all have free health care... but maybe not now!
Interesting that the "strip search" blaring headline that Mikey posts is one line in the two page article yet is NEVER mentioned again even by the ACLU. That would make me wonder if thier was a strip search what the purpose was, but doubt one really happened as it never comes up again.
I can tell you this, many people get arrested at Presidential appearances...including Kerry's when he was running. You rarely get asked twice to do something the Secret Service asks you to do. The second time you are removed. I've worked 3 details with them and they don't mess around. They are the wrong ones to pull typical protester BS on.
They need to do their job to keep the President safe, so I don't blame them for not taking sh!t from anyone. But they need to leave people alone for wearing T-Shirts or having bumper stickers. They are legally responsible when they overstep that line.
Nothing like dead soldiers and a male strip search to get Mikey jerking off.
It's humorous when the "football" forum members trash the political forum because of the attacks on members, then they make posts with no redeeming qualities, go figure.
As far as this administration cuffing protesters, its just another example of W going to extreme measures with his powers. There is no doupt that some protesters need to be handcuffed and taken away, but there are examples in every city Bush visits that he violates people's free speech. I imagined he saw his father not being able to give a speech due to a ranting protester and decided that would not happen to him. He would banish anyone from the crowd who wasn't pro-Bush. He would control the crowds just as he selects people in his "town" meetings, adding to his image of the bubble boy.
Didn't Billy Boy BJ's protesters coincidently get audited by the IRS?
There is one member who has earned the trash.
Anyone who's going to pull the "Clinton did it" defense... it was just as wrong for him to do it. Seriously, does ANYONE think it's OK to arrest peaceful protesters at public events, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the administration?
You have to remember it is ONE SIDE of the story. I saw people get arrested for not following reasonable security requests. The people themselves were unreasonable, they figured they could pull thier normal I will push the "cops" buttons because they know the cops can't leave thier post and I can cross X number of lines before they will actually arrest me. Well sorry the Secret Service doesn't play that game and thier is many more of them than you would believe at any event the President is at. I can guarantee you that there is more to the "story" (good word for it) than someone wearing a T-shirt. You know how many times I have heard stuff like that?
One guy assaults a guy in his home when he is burglarizing it but the owner comes home. Guy runs, we eventulaly catch him in another persons yard. His lawyer makes a statement to the press that he was just looking to rent a place and the guy assaulted him. As far as running through peoples yards he was looking at another possible rentals backyard and a dog chased him...he was not running from the police. YES the paper printed that and only that, seriously. (Oh by the way, convicted violent felon, no job, arrived in a stolen car full of stolen items (said he didn't have one but had walked. but NONE of that was reported in the PAPER! Yes they knew about this stuff)) There is more to this "story" but you will never hear it because it makes for "better" news. So you kow how many times I have ACTUALLY SEEN stuff like that not "heard"?
That is probably a fairly accurate presentation of what sometimes happens, but in this instance we are talking about two 55 year old school teachers. Combine that with Bush's track record of propaganda. I lived in Tampa when he visited, and the same incidents would occur. While there are incidents of people acting improperly, there are many more of people being singled out for just wearing the wrong T-shirt.
Fair enough also, but remember again you are reading one side and later they can say anything they want. "was walking down the street and they snatched me off the street in a black van. I wasn't doing anything." When the reality was quite different. But do you think the papers would print it if the "story" was "Well I was acting like an A hole and they took me away."?
I can tell you this if you have 20 people acting like A holes but 50 people just excersizing their rights...then one of the people who is wearing the T-shirt pipes up with stupidity that normally wouldn't get them arrested but the line has been crossed by the A holes...wearing a nasty T-shirt is like a big neon sign that says "I'm with stupid" (the A holes causing most of the problem)
Hey I'm not saying someone never has gotten arrested for just a T-shirt, it could happen. But don't believe everything you read because I'm saying it almost always is one sided and probably only 60% true max. Protesters getting arrested for being A holes does not make for good headlines. Protestors arrested for doing NOTHING WRONG is an attention grabber. I'm telling ya I have seen people act like total immbeciles then later when they are telling the "story" I was just minding my own business...
As far as the 55 year old school teachers are they a threat? Probably not, but do rules apply to them...yes. What if that was NEM there. He is very passionate about his hate of Bush and if he was there, he could easily cross the line. Now how would that look in the papers that a 60 something year old man was arrested? I'm not saying that they are guilty or thier story isn't true...but again what about the "strip search"? Where did that part of the story go? I mean that is what distrurbs me was someone really strip searched? That would be out of line unless there was a reason...butr one sentence and never mentioned again. Could it be because it never happened so it was just put there to "inflame" and show how "unfair and extreame' the action against them was? Doesn't that peek your curiosity a little. That to me there is an agenda in this article. Just presenting the other side here.
I thought the story is straightforward.
The two 55-year-old Iowa teachers were handcuffed and strip-searched.
Christine Nelson and Alice McCabe were told to strip off their clothings and were searched.
What part of the story don't you understand?
How many times must the words "strip search" appear for you to believe that the incident occurred?
All you're saying, Pats-Blue - and I don't disagree - is that in some cases the cop is telling the truth and in some cases the protester is. But with as many cases as we've seen reported (and the charges later dropped), the balance of probabilities says that at least sometimes the police are being overbearing, and that is completely unacceptable.
I think overbearing might be a little harsh. Now if it is a couple of protesters and some one gets arrested for a little comment or a T-shirt sure bad police work and probably news worthy.
If it is a large protest and some people are being stupid well stupidity begets stupidity and unless you nip it in the bud it can get out of control fast. Not saying this is always the case but is my take from my actual experience not reading it in the papers and having it filtered. The cops or security are always outnumbered so sometimes arrests are quickly made and problem is solved (that may sound bad, but I don't mean "false" arrest) These cases might be completely 100% legit but the prosecutors don't have the time to do the cases they have so yeah sometimes even legit cases like this get dropped because it isn't worth the expense to prosecute for something that would result in a fine that won't cover the light bill for the court room. Also sometimes maybe the cop or security jumped the gun...my point is and I think you see that is that more often that not these people are not simply wearing a bad T-shirt and they are wisked away to the gulag. They may say that is what happened and that is what gets printed but I'm just telling you that is rarely the case from personal experience. I could write a book on the "fairy tales" I have personnally experienced. Sometimes it is funny, but sorry when the paper prints these fairy tales as fact it does make the job harder and encourages otheres to act stupid because the media is the lawyers lap dog.
You seem like you're too willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the cops in every case. You can tell me true stories all day about your experience, but it doesn't change the fact that even if 95% of the people are lying, the 5% that are telling the truth represent a big problem. And like probably everyone here, I have my own personal experiences with the cops, too. Not from being a cop (I'm not), and not from being arrested (I've never been) but I've watched a mounted cop use their horse to intimidate people (he took his horse into a gallop very close to where some people were sitting and turned the corner at the last minute). I saw another cop (same event) get off his horse to get in someone's face to act like a tough guy (the guy had mouthed off to him, but he wasn't vulgar and it didn't rise to the level of a criminal offense). Granted, in both of these cases there was no false arrest, but by my book both of those cops should have been terminated & criminally charged, or at the VERY least reassigned to desk duty for the rest of their lives.
Police get too many powers and too much benefit of the doubt not to answer when they do cross the line.
Ok you are either an idiot or being condesending. First WHERE IS THE SECOND SENTENCE IN THE ARTICLE???? I'll give you a hint it ISN"T IN THERE! You added it!
Second you obviously don't know what a strip search is as defined by the Supreme Court..maybe you should educate yourself before you start making stuff up and then trying to be condesending from behind a computer. Making stuff up is your fortee though.
Third I think it is very obvious why this would be important and I CLEARLY explained why. A strip search would DEFINTELY be extreame and I would be hard pressed to understand why something would be done like that and it CERTAINLY would be the biggest concern of the ACLU if IT HAD OCCURRED, but is never mentioned again. No attorney, no witnesses or even victims quotes on the "strip search". No quotes on something serious as a strip search, no questions towards the commanding officer of the ones that conducted the "strip search"? HHHMM that doesn't seem plausible unless maybe that part didn't happen and it is just an unfounded accusation ment to inflame on purpose and put there for people like you that don't want to ask any questions if it fits your agenda?
A strip search is a BIG DEAL in law enforcement and if they were strip searched for no reason they would have a great lawsuit on thier hands. It is a slam dunk...but like I said they simply let that slide but are upset because they got arrested but no quotes about the "strip search".
Sorry I have to explain things to you, must be great being that niave in front of your computer gobbling up anything you can read as the truth.
Kathleen Wileys pu$sy
Poor little kitty.
Imagine a President of the Untied States Of America putting out a contract on a womens Cat. :singing:
Hey there ARE BAD COPS. I don't know any "crooked" cops, but do know some that I think are badge heavy and others I wouldn't let in my house (socially...I simply don't like them...and I get along with everyone usually).
As far as the mounted cop...hey I wasn't there. But I will say this. Why is it ok for someone to mouth off to a cop? Why if someoen feels they can mouth off to a cop that it is awful if the cop gets in thier face? I can tell you this I hate cowards. If you have something to say say it to someones face. If you say it be prepared to back up your words. So it is ok that this guy figures the cop can't "fight" back so he mouths off to him? But the cop should be fired for defending himself.
Cops aren't robots they are human being doing a hard job. So the guy mouthing off gets away with it...how many people there see that? How many go away from there and think they can do the same think with no repercussions? Maybe someone leaves there and takes that a step further next time to another cop or so on down the line. So it seems that it is ok to disparage someone in a uniform because they should be held to a higher standard and shouldn't react? What planet is this so cops have to put up with bigotry towards them while they protect others rights?
To tell you the truth my gripe is more about the media. My guess is that they got arrested for a valid but cheesy reason because they got out of hand and wouldn't follow simple requests and the people onscene finally just solved the problem by arresting them. The media however panders to them and makes it a gestopo raid...with a "strip search"
Again my problem is with the media. As far as my experience you have seen a couple of instances, maybe there was something else that happened maybe there wasn't and it was na over reaction...but I can tell you I have seen it day in day out for many years so my "experience" while on the other side of the fence has a lot more information. You would really need to do the job to realize. It isn't like TV. It would take to long to explain but there is a lot more to the job than you realize and see.
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