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General Motors: Obamacare Wrapped in Solyndra Inside Some Misery

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Aug 3, 2012.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    General Motors: Obamacare Wrapped in Solyndra Inside Some Misery - John Ransom - Townhall Finance Conservative Columnists and Financial Commentary - Page 1




    GM Stock is currently ~ $19/share it would need to get to $51/share for the Taxpayers to break even.

    Obama brags about this being a good investment.

    [​IMG]


    It would have been better to just cut a check for $95 B and told the workers to go get a job with a viable company or retire.
  2. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think one of the reasons Rush chronically attacked the GM Volt was part of the Tea Party putting Party before country. The GM Volt got very good review, but for some strange reason Rush and other elements of the radical right went after it. Or maybe Rush drives a Prius? At any rate, I think the GM investment will pay off in time regardless of who gets into office.
  3. Charlotte Pats Fan

    Charlotte Pats Fan Rookie

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    No Jersey Selected

    And your basing this on what? A Gut feeling?
  4. PatsFanInVa

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    Saving a million plus jobs including parts makers? It's paid off already.

    Qwitcherbichin.


    20.4 today. :D
  5. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    I think the government should have stayed out of it. The less too big to fail companies we have the better. the downturn in the economy would have spurned several smaller car companies all by itself. The government could have produced similar results with a tax incentive for Americans purchasing new cars ... not Cash for Clunkers either.

    i don't have a problem with tax incentives for struggling American industries, ... I do have a problem with our government bailing out public companies that should either subsist or fail based on public demand. With one of if not the highest corporate tax rate in the world a good place to start would be lowering.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  6. patsfan13

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    MILLION JOBS, could you please document that?

    If they filed bankruptcy they could have restructured or been bought out.

    Look at the Ford and GM charts over the past few years Ford has been the better performer without our money.
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The auto market has been growing fairly steadily. As the economy picks up, one would expect it to grow more. Also, GM has a wide range of products, and the Volt really did get mostly very good reviews, and a year or two ago I read that GM was increasing market share overseas. Further, I think at one time GM stock was over $75, so I don't see why it won't get there again.
  8. PatsFanInVa

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    They did file bankruptcy, genius.

    No private lender was going to provide debtor in possession (DIP) financing. The Government was.


    Do you mean that if GM was liquidated many small car companies would have spontaneously sprung into being? Financed by whom, with what lending capital?

    What a crock of sh1t. The liquidity was not there.

    As to the job losses, you have direct, indirect (among parts makers), and the services they used. Sorry, I lowballed it; estimates run at least to 2.5 million. But rather than hear you b1tch and moan, I went w/the lower #.

    Sherrod Brown talks about the supply chain only @1.45 million, & the Obama folks usually use the 1 million #. I am sure the internet is just chock full of red state regulars looking to lowball the numbers, but among serious people, the accepted conservative # is about 1 million.

    Ohio
    PFnV
  9. PatsFanInVa

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    Ohhh sorry, I thought you had historic amnesia, but it's reading comprehension again.

    20.4 was the stock price for GM on the day of the posting. :D
  10. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    LOL.....sugar coating.....the volt is a 40K piece of garbage that is crushed by a 13K less expensive ford fusion hybrid

    GM will fall flat on its face again.....its already in process

    Chevy Volt's problems may not be over as GM's CEO prepares to face Congress - Bottom Line
  11. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    this is exactly how government bloat works under obama

    here's a comparison reward for the saving of GM....the chevy volt compared to the furd fusion hybrid and the toyota camry hybrid

    Compare Vehicles: 2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid vs. 2013 Chevrolet Volt vs. 2012 Toyota Camry Hybrid

    so ..... an inferior car for 13-15K more.......loaded with misprints......even though they call it the volt and talk about it being electric, after 30-50 miles, it becomes a 4 cylinder gas car that averages 31.4mpg.....

    reminiscent of the GM diesels of the 1980's.......these cars are the latest in the ultimate pig from the ultimate pig in car makers......
  12. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm just surprised that there haven't been more battery fires among other hybrids (from your first linked article). My guess is that there have been, but GM has the one that people found out about. With all the work people have done to solve the thermal runaway problem with various forms of lithium/lithium ion battery, the problem is still potentially there as long as a battery has that good an energy density (remember the incredible exploding laptops of 05 or so?) So I guess they really have made progress, overall.

    Now, I won't get into comparing that with post-impact explosions of gasoline-only vehicles. I am sure that the congress will do a wonderful job of that :rolleyes: Hauling GM in front of Congress to talk sh1t about the Volt is just them having their equivalent of the Chevy Corvair moment, in which they gripe and moan and try to drag GM through the muck for continuing to exist, essentially, and try to link GM with "Gubmit and Greeniness" and stuff so that the teabaggers like them more.

    As to the cost and the existence of the gasoline engine "just in case," I think it's a bizarre way to augment a hybrid, for a U.S. market. Your possible drives aren't limited to your charging station infrastructure, which currently doesn't exist. So I think the goal is to appeal to someone who will mainly commute in it but doesn't want to feel nervous if there's a post-electric leg to their trip, or they want to pick up some groceries at a specialty store 15 miles out of the way or whatever.

    Not going to judge whether it'll have any success. I tend to agree w/you on it, that the Volt is just too little car for too much money. That's probably why the administration wanted to lean on GM to kill the volt, but felt they couldn't because it would be interfering too much and playing "carmaker".

    PFnV
  13. wistahpatsfan

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    The Volt is not perfect but it's a step toward the way we WILL go. All the whining and fetchin from the fossil fuel rumpswabs will not change that. We will not be driving internal combustion vehicles in 50-60 years. Even trucks will be electric. Only heavy aircraft, cargo rail and the military will be using fossil fuel. I have to laugh at people who favor the fossils as if there will always be a supply because it's the "most efficient" energy source and at the same time, ignore the associated cost in pollution, war and disease. It's the inconvenient system dynamics thing.
  14. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    The volt is a really bad imitation of something that someone got right 10 years ago. Companies have killed far superior hybrids ( Honda accord)..a for electric, the Nissan leaf comes to mind

    The point is not what (hybrids/electric) ... It is who and how (Chevy and volt)....GM and the government who 'saved' them are the bigger idiots here
  15. Drewski

    Drewski Rookie

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    I don't think they will be electric, because electric cars by and large don't remove the need for another source of energy.

    You need to plug in your electric car, but where is the source for the electric you are plugging your car into? At least some of it is from fossil fuels. So electric cars, while a great in between step, simply kick the proverbial can down the street.

    Hydrogen is the wave of the future...nearly limitless supply, most abundant naturally occurring substance in the universe and the by product for our application of it would be mostly water.
  16. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The batteries are among the more toxic products made by man.
  17. DarrylS

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    If GM did go bankrupt and were taken over by another company, the competition amongst american auto makers would be diminished. Probably leading toward higher prices and less options for those who want to purchase an american made vehicle manufactured by an american owned company.

    The Chevy Volt is now the highest selling electric vehicle..

  18. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    talk about hand-picking data.......

    Toyota has sold around 100K prius in the US so far this year.

    just to be clear......technically, a chevy volt is a hybrid since it has a gas engine in it.....only the leaf is a true electric
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
  19. patsfan13

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    The Volt sales went mostly to GE and the gov, as I pointed out in a thread a month ago about Obama and Crony Capitalism.

    More on the GM waste. T Geithner screwed 20,000 retirees out of their pensions, while other workers got to keep thiers, the diff? If you weren't in the UAW the Administration said f'u.

    They also may have violated the law:

    Emails: Treasury drove cutoff of non-union Delphi pensions | The Daily Caller

  20. DarrylS

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    Technically the gas engine does not propel the car, the electric motor powers the car at all times, the gas engine is just a generator for making electricity once the battery is depleted.... quite a difference.

    It is the same old shyt, the right loves to pick a topic and instead of looking at what is positive about this, they will demonize it until the masses are convinced by the lies.. see ACORN, Planned Parenthood, Solyndra etc.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012

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