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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by mayoclinic, Jan 22, 2010.

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  1. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    Great Blue North has updated their big board of the top 185 prospects in the 2010 draft:

    Great Blue North Draft Report

    Some interesting rankings of note (I've posted NFLdraftscout's ranking for comparison):

    9. Carlos Dunlap, DE, Florida - too high for him right now (13)
    10. Rolando McClain, ILB, Alabama (10)
    11. Brian Bulaga, OT, Iowa (24)
    12. Sergio Kindle, LB, Texas - seem a bit high (21)
    15. Jason Pierre-Paul, DE, USF (43)
    18. Mike Iupati, OG, Idaho (22)
    20. CJ Spiller, RB, Clemson (6)
    28. Terrance Cody, DT, Alabama (49)
    30. Maurkice Pouncey, OG/C, Florida (38)
    33. Bruce Campbell, OT, Maryland - too low (27)
    34. Jonathan Dwyer, RB, Georgia Tech (18)
    36. Jerry Hughes, DE, TCU (52)
    38. Everson Griffen, DE, USC (14)
    40. Ricky Sapp, LB, Clemson (17)
    44. Tim Tebow, QB, Forida (28)
    46. Greg Hardy, DE, Mississippi (73)
    48. Jahvid Best, RB, USC (30)
    50. Eric Norwood, LB, South Carolina (102)
    52. Jared Odrick, DT, Penn St. (31)
    54. Corey Wootten, DE, Northwestern (33)
    59. Ciron Black, OT, LSU - way too high (110)
    63. Mike Johnson, OG, Alabama (66)
    64. Dexter McCluster, RB, Mississippi (81)
    72. Arthur Jones, DT, Syracuse (94)
    75. Austen Lane, DE, Murray St. (96)
    81. Jon Asamoah, OG, Illinois (58)
    83. Dan Williams, DT, Tennessee - way undervalued; will be a 1st round pick (25)
    110. Micah Johnson, ILB, Kentucky (118)
    117. Vlad Ducasse, OG, UMass - way undervalued (82)
    146. O'Brien Schofield, LB, Wisconsin (104)
    151. Jared Veldheer, OT, Hillsdale - could go much higher (145)
    158. Clifton Geathers, DE, South Carolina (216)
    171. Sean Canfield, QB, Oregon St. - way undervalued (85)
    182. Doug Worthington, DT, Ohio St. (281)
    183. Rodger Saffold, OT, Indiana - way undervalued (142)

    Guys not in the top 185 who are undervalued:

    - Chris Marinelli, OT, Stanford (226)
    - Tony Moeaki, TE, Iowa (100)
    - Freddie Barnes, WR, Bowling Green (159)
    - Brandon Deaderick, DT/DE, Alabama (304)
  2. zimmy

    zimmy On the Game Day Roster

    I know he's out of range but I want to know whether Derrick Morgan can play outside linebacker for us? He looks a bit stiff but he plays the run really well and has a high motor. He also has the height and weight Bill is looking for as well as some of the intangibles - loves football, good teammate etc.

    I really don't see too many outside linebacker prospects that I want to take in the first round. They all have big question marks and I want a sure fire guy in the 1st. Either one of the defensive tackles to play end, or a offensive playmaker,. I also like Brandon Spikes. I really don't think there is too much drop off between him and McClain. Especially when you consider that McCalin is being talked about as top 10 and Spikes is sometimes not even in the first round. I would also be intrigued to see what Sean Weatherspoon weighs in at as he has the playmaking ability to be a star. He also has the leadership qualities we lack, is something of a rah rah pump them up type of guy who loves football.
  3. hammertime

    hammertime On the Roster

    Interesting rankings. I'm a huge Eric Norwood fan so I'd have him higher than both of those, but overall seems interesting to see the contrast between the two. A 28 spot difference for Jason Pierre-Paul? He seems like a typical 3-4 Merriman type that could be very good in the future for us. The measurables are extremely similar. I'm more sold on Pierre-Paul than Jerry Hughes for us personally since Hughes has stiff hips and might not translate well without them and with his current size to the 3-4. Kind of like Vernon Gholston; good fit for the 4-3 but not standing up. I noticed that in the Fiesta Bowl as well.
  4. furry

    furry Practice Squad Player

    If Spiller is still there at 20 we'd be mad not to try and trade up to get him
  5. BritPat

    BritPat In the Starting Line-Up

    #54 Jersey

    Why waste a first round pick and more for a third down back who won't be on the field every snap?

    I'd question the sanity of BB and co if we gave up extra picks to get him.

    If you want that type of player, wait until late in round 2 for Best, or take McCluster.
  6. furry

    furry Practice Squad Player

    Because I don't believe he will be a thrid down back, I think he's gonna be top drawer RB and without doubt a game changer.

    Would be nice to know we had one of those in the backfield with the likes of Faulk to come in 3rd down if required.

    We need playmakers this draft and he's one of them
  7. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    Morgan is a heck of a player, with a terrific motor, strong against the run, and a dominant pass rusher. But (1) he will go top 15, probably top 10, and (2) he has stiff hips and is limited in space. I think he's more of a 4-3 DE.

    You won't get any "sure fire" guys anywhere, and certainly not at 22. But I think there's a good chance that one of Carlos Dunlap or Jason Pierre-Paul is available at 22, and the upside of either is well worth the risk. Their upside is unreal.

    I think Brandon Spikes is in the 2nd is a possibility if he falls, and if BB thinks he can play SILB. I'm not sure he can. The buzz is that his lack of speed may hurt him a lot in the draft, and right now people are projecting him anywhere from 15-20 to the 4th round. Eric Norwood and Micah Johnson might also be options at SILB.

    I don't think the DT/DE guys have the talent to warrant a 1st round pick. I'd much rather go for Dunlap or Pierre-Paul and take the chance, or Dan Williams or Terrance Cody.
  8. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    I think you're right about Hughes' stiff hips. Carlos Dunlap and Jason Pierre-Paul are at the top of my list for guys with height, size, speed and loose hips. Sergio Kindle and Ricky Sapp are further down. Austen Lane is my wild card.
  9. furry

    furry Practice Squad Player

    Mayo- I don't know much about Dunlap other than the few games I've seen where he's looked beastly but the one thing that does stick in the mind is the DUI charge.

    Something to worry about?
  10. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    I've got to agree with Furry here. I had us trading 42, 47 and 118 to Atlanta for 19/20 and 83 in my latest mock and taking Spiller at 19. I'd still do that trade if he's on the board at 19/20, especially with all the talent available in the 3rd round. Atlanta has no 2nd round pick, and there will probably be no CB (their biggest need) worth taking at 19/20.

    First, I think Spiller isn't a 3rd down back. I think he can be an every down player. He may not be Chris Johnson, but he has enough size (5'11", 195#) to play regularly. Add 5-10 lbs. and he's solid. Ray Rice (5'8" 210#) and Maurice Jones-Drew (5'7" 208#) are every-down backs, something that was a question mark with both when the came out.

    One of the biggest of the many issues I had with our offense this season was the pass/run predictability. Some of this was due to O'Brien being a terrible play caller, without a doubt. But often we would have no RB in on many situations and it would be an obvious passing play, and then we would bring Maroney in to run and the defense would stack the box. Terrible. One reason Kevin Faulk ran so effectively was that we used him effectively out of the backfield as well, so that defenses didn't know for sure whether we would run or pass when Faulk was in the lineup.

    I'd love to have that kind of unpredictability. Spiller is a threat to go all the way on every play. Opposing defenses have to account for him every time he's on the field. Lose track of him and it's a potential 7 points. Whether he's blocking, catching out of the backfield or running, he will keep opposing defenses guessing and on their toes, which will open up our passing game. Get him 15-20 touches a game through a combination of running and pass plays and I think he will make 2-3 big plays a game (not counting special teams, where he could be huge) that could make a difference.

    You're right, BritPat, it would be crazy to spend a 1st round pick on a 3rd down back. But I don't see Spiller that way. Best in the 2nd is an option, but his concussion history is scary. McCluster lacks Spiller's breakaway speed, which is what makes him so dangerous. No one's going to catch this kid from behind.

    My ideal would be to get Spiller and one of Carlos Dunlap/Jason Pierre-Paul (I'm strongly leaning toward Dunlap, but both have amazing potential). Add Austen Lane at 83, an OG at 53, and a WR and SILB in FA, and resign our key guys, and this team would be ready to compete for the SB.
  11. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    Something to be grateful for, IMHO. Otherwise he'd be long gone before 22, probably top 10.

    From what I can tell, Dunlap is a good kid with no prior record of bad behavior. He made a single dumb decision, and got suspended for the SEC championship game. He was reportedly devastated about that - really torn up, and mainly upset with himself for letting the team down. He sounds like a good kid who made one dumb mistake.

    Compare that with the red flags on Brandon Meriweather in 2007, and I don't think it's that huge. Obviously, BB will have to talk to Urban Meyer and get his view, and interview Dunlap closely. But I think that Dunlap's DUI could be the best break for the Pats all season.
  12. zimmy

    zimmy On the Game Day Roster

    Jason Pierre Paul is intriguing. Carlos Dunlap doesn't look like a Pats outside linebacker to me. He's too slow. Also he's not an effort player, seems to go missing and give up on plays too often.

    People are going to get angry at this but if our options at 22 are Dunlap, Hughes, Sapp etc and the likes of Spiller are off the board I want to trade out of the first round. We can pick up our DE/OLB conversions in the 2nd to 3rd round and could pick up any of Golden Tate, Brandon Spikes, Jared Odrick, Sean Weatherspoon at the top of the 2nd.
  13. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

    I like Eric Norwood a lot too. He's not going to be a pass rusher, but he will make plays all over the field at the OLB position.

    If we grab a pass rusher first and a WR, it would be a huge coup to grab Norwood with our 3rd or 4th pick, because this guy would be starting for us after the first third of the season, and he'd keep that position for the next 6 to 9 years.

    1. Carlos Dunlap
    2. Arrelious Benn
    3. Mike Iupati or Vlad Ducasse
    4. Eric Norwood
  14. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 Supporter Supporter

    #3 Jersey

    fypfy... :d
  15. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 Supporter Supporter

    #3 Jersey

    FYPFY... :p
  16. hammertime

    hammertime On the Roster

    I have Lane as a fifth rounder at the moment, but he could rise.

    And I love Norwood. He reminds me so much of James Harrison. He can cover, rush the passer, play the run, make big plays, does EVERYTHING that a linebacker should do. He'll slip because he's 6 foot to 6 foot 1, but I still love everything else about him.

    I'm not sure Dunlap can transition, though. I think Pierre-Paul is a better option. He's just so athletic and, I think, better in the hips.
  17. WhiZa

    WhiZa Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    I like Norwood too, but not on coverage. Let him work in a 5 yard box, a lot like TBC, and he can be productive.
  18. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks Supporter Supporter

    Derrick Morgan is a younger, less experienced Willie McGinest playing up on his feet, as a 4-3 DE he's a top 10 pick, as a NE 3-4 OLB he's long gone before BB would draft him.

    Eric Norwood will be a good pass rusher in the NFL, it's how he gets used as a LB and how long it takes to correct all the bad habits South Carolina's coaches have been drilling into him that changes his grade. I'd take him with NE's last pick of the second round only because he would be a solid third down specialist who could be developed into two-down ILB and three-down OLB with some effort, otherwise his third round grade is looking reasonable.
  19. BritPat

    BritPat In the Starting Line-Up

    #54 Jersey

    You think he's a three down player?


    Not a hope in hell.
  20. hammertime

    hammertime On the Roster

    I think he has a much higher ceiling in coverage than TBC has/had. There's a great scouting video on Youtube that shows good and bad (DraftParty always has good stuff.) One play in particuoar caught my eye; an INT for a touchdown against Georgia where he does a great job of reading the QB's eyes and making a play on the ball. Get him in camp, get him more experience and he'll be as good a combo OLB as there is in the draft.
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