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Gas prices: would this work?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Tunescribe, Feb 27, 2011.

  1. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    This was forwarded to me and has me curious. Could it work to lower prices at the pump?

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    THIS IS NOT THE 'DON'T BUY' GAS FOR ONE DAY, BUT IT WILL SHOW YOU HOW WE CAN GET GAS BACK DOWN TO $1.30 PER GALLON.

    This was sent by a retired Coca Cola executive. It came from one of his engineer buddies who retired from Halliburton. If you are tired of the gas prices going up AND they will continue to rise this summer, take time to read this please.

    Phillip Hollsworth offered this good idea.
    This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy gas on a certain day" campaign that was going around last April or May!
    It's worth your consideration. Join the resistance!!!!

    I hear we are going to hit close to $ 4.00 a gallon by next summer and it might go higher!! Want gasoline prices to come down?

    We need to take some intelligent, united action.
    The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to "hurt" ourselves by refusing to buy gas .

    It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them.
    BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can Really work. Please read on and join with us!

    By now you're probably thinking gasoline priced at about $2.00 is super cheap. Me too! It is currently $3.08 at Arco and Costco for regular unleaded in Salem, Oregon and climbing every week.

    Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a gallon of gas is CHEAP at $1.50 - $1.75, we need to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the marketplace..not sellers.

    With the price of gasoline going up more each day, we consumers need to take action.

    The only way we are going to see the price of gas come down is if we hit someone in the pocketbook by not purchasing their gas! And, we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves.

    How? Since we all rely on our cars, we can't just stop buying gas.

    But we CAN have an impact on gas prices if we all act together to force a price war.

    Here's the idea: For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY gasoline from the two biggest companies (which now are one), EXXON and MOBIL.

    If they are not selling any gas, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit.
  2. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Great Idea, put a little sign on your dashboard that says EXXON / MOBIL for your wives.

    :bricks:
  3. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Didn't they (meaning us) try something like this during the oil spill in the gulf last year?

    I think the only thing that happened was that quite a few BP station franchise owners had to close down.

    It does nothing to the "big" guys, it only serves to shut down the "little" guys.

    I see no point in putting one more small businessman out of business. He doesn't set the prices and he can't lower them, either.

    And the big owners - it's not just our gas money they count on getting. I don't know what portion of their profits car gasoline consists of but I'm pretty sure that it's not the majority of it.

    I don't really know, though, and I'm much too lazy right now to start researching it. Maybe somebody else knows?
  4. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    It wont work. Oil companies run on really small margins, typically less than 6%. Granted, 6% of all that oil is a lot of money, but still, its a pretty tight margin. The controlling factor is the producers. The oil owning companies domestically produce just a faction of what we consume. The producers of volume are OPEC, and they are nationalities setting price and volume to control the market. Its not a free market. So you dont buy Exxon Mobil? OPEC sells it to Shell for the same price and they make their 6%.

    You are right, all you are doing is hurting your local small businessman who has his price set for him, too.
  5. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    IMO, since the economic recovery has been what its been, this major new push on prices is prolly from insurance increases, and as long as the ME is above its typical level of craziness, what with all the actual and attempted revolutions springing up, the insurance rates will stay high. I don't blame insurance companies for this. How would you feel about insuring some supertanker loaded with crude as it transits the Suez with everyone it'll have to steam past deciding that they need a new government and that has to happen right now?

    I don't see any sense in punishing people who aren't to blame.

    The good news is that democracies tend to be more stable, so eventually the insurance surcharges will go down to a level lower than what was required with all these tin-pot dictators in charge. Not to mention the fact that millions of our fellow Earth-dwellers will have access to a better life. Just keep your engine tuned, the tires inflated and use other transportation when possible. Many Americans died protecting/expanding Democracy during WW2, many more suffered economically at home. Think of dealing with this price spike as your personal contribution to greater world freedom. Its sure a sight better than having to storm the beach at Normandy:D
  6. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    Frankly, we don't have the resolve. Americans for the most part are only good at complaining about things. We just want our conveniences and it just doesn't hurt enough for most people until gas goes $4.....then you might see some "sacrifice"
  7. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    That's true to some extent. Tick enough people off at the same time, however, and it might be a bit different.

    There's only so much people can sacrifice, though. They might vacation closer to home - or give up vacation altogether - but they're not going to quit driving to work or picking up their husband at the train station. They won't quit visiting Grandma in the nursing home or driving the kids to the orthodontist appointment or anything else that's vital. They'll give up other "luxuries" before they'll do that. Buy less soda, cut out the stop at MacDonalds, not buy the new TV they wanted but didn't really need.

    The gas companies have us over a barrel - and they know it.
  8. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    Its not so much them, honestly. Its OPEC. A bunch of NATIONS, joined together, to price fix. They sit on the golden egg in the sand and they know it.
    Our options are slim. We need a fuel source that is portable, abundant, cheap, and works in any weather or temperature, for extended range capability, that can be refueled in a minute or two. That leaves greatly expanding our oil development here and in Canada, greatly expanding domestic natural gas production, development and widescale implementation of the coal for oil systems, and replacing fuel burned in fossil plants with nuclear energy.

    Alternative and "green" energy ideas sound nice, but we need solutions now, at a massive scale, in 2011. Economically viable alternatives are years and decades away.
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The demand (expansion of energy use in Asia) is driving price, more usage is driving prices, when the demand is at capacity any potential disruption in supply will explode prices.


    As in any case of supply and demand lowering price can only be accomplished by reducing demand ( ie shrinking the economy) or expanding supply (Alaska cloud be the 8 biggest supplier of oil on the planet) drilling and working on converting coal to gas economically.

    Everything else is noise.
  10. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    See, the problem with that, and I am a free market capitalist, is that oil is currently not an open market. Its controlled by a monopoly, limiting supply and controlling price cooperatively, in restraint of free trade. This monopoly is one formed of foreign governments, so we are pretty powerless to use market influence to change it. Besides, even if we all stop using their oil today, they still have China now to keep them afloat. We no longer have that leverage as consumers.
  11. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    So cogent... but then, this:

    Actually, ^ this is also noise. Especially the part about Alaska.

    Anyhow, it is BOTH a supply AND a demand problem, simultaneously. Even the EIA admits it.

    And it will get worse.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  12. patsfan13

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    Yes due to a lack of political will and misinformation from the eco lobby.


    There is the coal to liquid fuel process coming out of UT Arlington and of course the Fischer–Tropsch process. While more expensive than the old oil model it is much less than $150/bbl oil.

    We are using coal to create electricity along with drilling we should be using coal to convert to oil. We should use nuclear for electricity.

    Good article on prossible process to burn spend nuclear fuel.

    TerraPower, Bill Gates and the Reactor - WSJ.com



    Hopefully this technology can scale up to industrial levels.

    http://www.dailyfinance.com/article/mass-company-making-diesel-with-sun/1619512/
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  13. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    I kinda look at it like going on diets. They never work. It requires sustained life style changes, not some fad cause to get you through the summer driving season....then it's right back to the same old things especially if the prices drop. You're right though. A vacaion once or twice a year and the vists to grandma need not be the things that are sacrificed. Smarter everyday decsions add up to whole lot more than those. I'm not letting big oil of the hook by any means but we rationalize and deflect from our own watse by pointing fingers there.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think the strategic problem with it is that as they drop prices by the pennies, more and more people will start shopping there. It could bring gasoline down a few cents, perhaps, but after that the unity of the people would fail. In fact, in general consumer boycotts do not work, because not enough people are willing to go along.
  15. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    This wont work, simply becuase to many other products are made from oil. They also sell to other corporations, etc... and they Sell worldwide... so your probably only hurting a small small percentage of their sales.
  16. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    There is no such thing as a small, independent Mobil or Exxon gas station. These 2 companies only operate corp. locations.

    So Joes Service Station can't sell Mobile or Exxon gasoline...you absolutely don't have to worry about hurting any "Little Guys" if you boycott Exxon and Mobile.

    So, I say go for it!!
  17. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    The rise in oil/gas prices isn't due to increased demand as much as it is Ben Bernanke's Quantitative Easing policy.

    QE has resulted in a commodities bubble AND it has driven down the value of the US dollar. Since the price of oil is based upon the dollar, it's only natural to see the price of oil rise since the inception of QE2.
  18. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Exxon and Mobil sell to company distributors. They did sell franchises up until 2008 but then got out of it.

    I don't think that means that independent gas station owners don't buy gas from Exxon or Mobil or advertize their products, does it?

    Friday, June 13, 2008

    Exxon Mobil said yesterday it would sell off the 820 U.S. gasoline stations it operates and the land it owns under 1,400 additional franchise stations but hopes to keep selling its brands of gas by getting company distributors to acquire the stations.

    Consumers aren't likely to notice any outward difference in the stations, and about 9,200 other Exxon Mobil stations will not be affected. Those stations are owned and operated by distributors, who deliver fuel and often own several stations.

    But it will mean the end of small independent gasoline station operators such as Sohaila Rezazadeh, who owns an Exxon franchise in Oakton but pays rent to Exxon, which owns the land


    Exxon Will Sell Off Some Gas Stations - washingtonpost.com
  19. Harry Boy

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    We Have Oil In The Ground, it's been there for a long time, the problem is some rabbits living there and their little families keep building their homes there, if we could find a way to help the rabbits relocate to a new home then we could dig our Oil up.

    I see fields of green
    Red roses too
    I see them bloom
    For me and for you
    And I say to myself what a wonderful world

    F-cking Idiots
  20. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    Have any proof to back that up? According to all the information I have read, the United States peaked in Oil Production back in the 60s. Since then we have had to steadily import more and more oil in order to meet the demand.

    Knowing our current ( and historical ) political process, if there was billions to be made, it would happen by now easily by paying off the right people in congress.

    My thinking, and evaluation of the "Drill Baby Drill" debate, is that it's simply a red herring in order to distract us from the reality of the Oil / Energy issues facing our country.

    So, I ask you to show some proof, or contribute to the discussion by putting in some effort and show your work, rather than simply saying "F#$K the Liberals it's their fault", because honestly, your shtick is getting beyond tired and old...
  21. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Of course now the "Source Of This Information" will immediatlly be attacked and ridiculed by "The Polar Bear Loons"

    Offshore Drilling in Alaska Could Create 50,000 New Jobs Per Year
    By Steve Everley on February 25, 2011 10:53 AM
    Drilling for oil and gas off Alaska's coast could create more than 50,000 new jobs per year, in addition to producing more than 10 billion barrels of oil and 15 trillion cubic feet of natural gas.

    That is the conclusion of a new study [PDF] from the University of Alaska at Anchorage and Northern Economics, Inc. The study also notes that developing Alaska's offshore resources would generate more than $160 billion in new federal government revenue and tens of billions of dollars for state and local governments.

    In addition to the massive economic benefits, developing Alaska's offshore resources could substantially reduce America's dependence on foreign energy... more »
    Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less | American Solutions
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2011
  22. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Good question. From what I've read, there aren't any small independent Exxon or Mobile gas stations. Now maybe an independent owner can buy gas from them, but can't call his station "Exxon or Mobile".

    If that's the case, "Joe's Service Station" may indeed sell their gasoline, but it wouldn't be called "Joes Exxon Service Station"...so he wouldn't be affected by a boycott.

    I'd just love to see a mass boycott of a mega-corp. happen just to see how much we can influence what they do.
  23. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    Ok, I'm not going to get into if the source is valid... let's just break down the numbers.

    160 billion is over a 50 year period according to the document, and according to the document, the number is only actually 72 + 15 + 4 = 91 billion over 50 years. But lets go with 160 billion.

    That equates to $3,200,000,000 a year or 3.2 Billion a year.


    There are 2 locations Proposed:
    The document says: 5 billion barrels from 2019 to 2045
    That means 26 years of drilling, which equates to: 526,870 barrels a day.

    The document says: 4.8 billion barrels from 2022 to 2057
    That means 35 years of drilling, which equates to: 375,733 barrels a day.


    With both of these in place, and producing Oil, were looking at a total addition of 902,603 barrels of oil a day.


    According to: U.S. Total Crude Oil and Products Imports
    We import 11,691,000 barrels PER day in 2009.

    That means, in roughly 15 years, you will add 7% more oil on the market. Not bad, but considering that Oil demand will exceed that within 10 years, your net effect is probably 0.

    Or let's assume no increase in oil demand over the next 10 - 15 years, you can assume a 7% reduction in Oil prices. Current Price per Gallon is $3.20 a gallon, Your looking at $2.97 per gallon.

    The NET Effect of opening up those Oil Reserves, really accomplishes nothing. The end result still is we need to focus on finding an alternative.

    Would you not agree? Honestly, do the math, how can you not agree that we need to find something else?

    Oh and this walk through doesn't even take into account the reduction of production levels in oil fields which are on the down side of their production... the 7% increase of these 2 fields may simply be the amount needed to offset the losses in production from older fields over the next 10-15 years.

    In summation, the only real solution is to find an alternative, or find another MAJOR oil field like the one Saudi Arabia has been pumping for the past 40 years. These small-ish ( compared to the oil fields we rely on ) are a drop in the bucket to what we need to solve our Energy issues.

    Now Harry, I used your document, so I expect you to review the information I presented and give me your honest opinion on how that drilling will truly help and not simply push the problem down the road 10 years.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2011
  24. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    I would also like to submit this Math to the argument...

    The Expanded Oil would add 3.2 Billion a year in revenue to the state and federal level according to my math above.

    So adding these 2 oil fields will add 0.0014% easing to the budget of our country...

    That means in 2022 we will collect 2.163 trillion instead of 2.160 trillion... That sure is going to save us!
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2011
  25. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You do know I'm a stupid Truck Driver, my calculations tell me we should have drilled for Oil 15 years ago, we would be burning it today, we have to do something in order to be able to tell those f-cking Arabs to shove their oil up their ass.
    I can't under stand why we have never drilled for our own, we need oil almost as much as we need food, Al Gore needs oil.


    :bricks:
  26. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    Right, the point I am making, and most have before... We used to be the middle east... in the 50s and 60s we drilled for our own Oil, and since oil is NOT a renewable energy source, we quickly used up the amount of American oil production.

    The 70s was a tipping point of when American produced Oil was on the decline, and our reliance of Middle East Oil was ramping up, and then the Oil Embargo happened... We simply no longer have the Oil reserves to feed our country need of Oil.

    Its simply not there any more, not even 15 years ago.

    America produces something like 4% of the oil being produced today, yet we consume 25% of all Oil Produced world wide.

    You can't Drill your way out of that problem... Not to mention, that there simply is no more oil in America to produce... Back in the day, we had Oil everywhere... now... it's gone. It doesn't just come back.
  27. Harry Boy

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    Well, looks like we're screwed, give the Sheiks what they want or feeze to death, no wonder Obama "bows to them" and "Bush kisses them"


    :bricks:
  28. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    "If" we ever discover a mega-reserve in US territory, I'd like 100% of it to be "For US citizens only"....
  29. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The "Oil Haters" would find some way to keep us from using it.

    I LOVE OIL


    :bricks:
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2011
  30. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    You may think your joking, but I am not sure your too far from the truth.


    WE ARE SCREWED, if we want to continue to be an Oil Based Economy. The sad thing is, Solar, Wind, etc... nothing comes close to the energy output of Oil. So, to move forward as a society, we need to use less energy, and slow down... the economy must slow down, we can't grow forever, we physically can't. This isn't left vs right, this is math.

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