Game thoughts - Peyton Manning Edition

[Rob0729]

You fired this off:



But you're not going to go there? You've already gone there.

I'm not going on this endless merry-go-round. I am done arguing it with you.

 

[DaBruinz]

Or we could remember that McGahee also dropped an easy 4th down conversion, and that both Rob and I had already given props to Ninkovich...

Nah.... that wouldn't lets us be DaBruinz. :bricks:

I wasn't responding to Rob. I was responding to your post. The one where you took away any credit for Ninkovich forcing the fumble by saying that the Pats should thank McGahee.

But, yeah, you keep right on thinking that you are something special, Deus.

 

[Deus Irae]

I wasn't responding to Rob. I was responding to your post. The one where you took away any credit for Ninkovich forcing the fumble by saying that the Pats should thank McGahee.

But, yeah, you keep right on thinking that you are something special, Deus.

Nowhere in my post did I claim to be special. However, in the same post you're referring to, I noted the following of Ninkovich:

Good to see this brought up. Ninko may not consistently be a starter level player, but he was a starter level player yesterday. More than that, he was a big part of why the Patriots were able to hold on and win despite that chucklehead 4th down decision.

Now, you have a good night.

 

[Fencer]

Those seem like good odds to me. I'll take them every time. I just wish on 3rd and 5, JMcD and BB would've just called a run since they pretty well knew they'd go for it

Good point. Fits with the clock-burning theme.

 

[SVN]

Denver is the last team i want the pats to face in the playoffs . Will take facing texans or baltimore over facing manning.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Denver is the last team i want the pats to face in the playoffs . Will take facing texans or baltimore over facing manning.

WIll be colder and windier by then. I'd play em again. Hightower returning will make their run game even more of an after thought. AHern will be back. We didn't finish the game. But, got up 31-7 without two pretty important players.

Thoughts on Connolly at C and Thomas at guard? Would that make us better?

 

[SVN]

WIll be colder and windier by then. I'd play em again. Hightower returning will make their run game even more of an after thought. AHern will be back. We didn't finish the game. But, got up 31-7 without two pretty important players.

Thoughts on Connolly at C and Thomas at guard? Would that make us better?

They will also adjust and not always a sterling moore will knock the ball out.
I agree with all points but something about manning makes BB and the coaching staff go a little nuts. Even BB knows what he is dealing with. I personally dont want to see manning again. Flacco/schaub anyone will do.Dont care about their reputations.

 

[BradyManny]

Here we go:
[*]Didn't like the 4th and 5 call. Not the play which was executed pathetically (possible the play selection was just as bad), but the fact they went for it. You are protecting a 17 point lead with a little over 8 minutes left in the 4th with the Broncos already burning a timeout. Just kick away the ball and at worst, you are giving them 80 yards of field to play with rather than 63 yards.
[/LIST]

I agree with most of what you say here, but disagree with this point. The fumble cost us 20 yards, but ordinarily, failure to execute there just leaves the ball at the 40. If we punt, the ball ends up somewhere between the 10-20 likely. At the rate the Broncos were moving the ball at that point, they're at the 20 yard line within a minute of play, so it wasn't worth it. Belichick said as much in the post-game presser. We're talking about net 20 yards and maybe a minute of play - whereas the upside of converting that is a chance to go for the jugular and end the game.

They just have to execute it better.

 

[BradyManny]

Denver is the last team i want the pats to face in the playoffs . Will take facing texans or baltimore over facing manning.

I don't know why people keep saying this and pointing to the Denver fumbles as if that excuses them. The Patriots had two flukey fumbles on similarly forceful hits. Are we to suggest the Broncos deserve credit for causing the Patriots fumbles, but the Patriots deserve no credit for causing the Broncos fumbles?

The Patriots had four drives totaling 58 plays, 22 minutes, 337 yards and 24 points (and could've easily been 28). Any game in which you total four drives with that kind of production, you are very likely to win. That's a dominant performance.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I agree with most of what you say here, but disagree with this point. The fumble cost us 20 yards, but ordinarily, failure to execute there just leaves the ball at the 40. If we punt, the ball ends up somewhere between the 10-20 likely. At the rate the Broncos were moving the ball at that point, they're at the 20 yard line within a minute of play, so it wasn't worth it. Belichick said as much in the post-game presser. We're talking about net 20 yards and maybe a minute of play - whereas the upside of converting that is a chance to go for the jugular and end the game.

They just have to execute it better.

Well said. With how Manning was moving the ball in the 4th quarter, the potential 20 yard net would have been all but negligible. Going for it was absolutely the right call IMO, just the execution was bad and losing 20 yards. If he just throws it away Denver starts on their 35 and it doesn't look nearly as bad.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

McCourty is still not playing at starter level.

I'm not the biggest DMC fan but I've got to agree with Rob this is pretty harsh. There isn't a starting CB in the league that doesn't have his down days. DMC was bad yesterday and in the 4th quarter of the Ravens game but otherwise I felt he's been solid at worst. At that rate I'd say hes definitely not a #1 but I would say he's been a capable starter.

 

[BradyManny]

McCourty is still not playing at starter level. Sadly, he's still the best CB the team has. It's almost a catch22 situation at this point. On the other hand, if McCourty ever gets back to the point where he can track the ball again, much of the problem with his game will be solved.

Right now I view it as the only problem. He's consistently competitive coverage (until it comes time to make a play on the ball), he's playing well 90% of the game, he's doing well in run support. He's just good for a couple brutal plays a game right now. If he can eliminate that, he'd be performing at the same level as 2010 from what I can see.

As for Dowling, with him getting PT, we'll now get to see whether or not he's worth pinning hopes on for the future.

Bedard was on CSNNE last night and reiterated that he and SMY both were led to believe the Patriots wanted McCourty at safety long-term and that they just didn't have a replacement at CB. I don't know if I buy this, or if its just Bedard covering-up an offseason gaffe, but hypothetically - Dowling and Dennard playing, and playing well, would give a huge boost to the depth chart in the secondary regardless.

1.) Koppen > Wendell

Based on what?

2.) Jones needs to start really demanding holding calls

Agree.

3.) I didn't think Manning was Manning, even though his numbers were gaudy. I seem to be in the distinct minority on that.

It was his best game of the three I've seen, but I agree. His numbers were inflated.

6.) Patriots fans owe McGahee a real debt of gratitude. He may have singlehandedly saved the game for the Patriots.

I doubt it - considering what happened on the next drive with the Brady fumble, it ultimately only cost the Broncos 2 minutes and change. This game was not as close as it looked at the end.

 

[patsfaninpa]

They will also adjust and not always a sterling moore will knock the ball out.
I agree with all points but something about manning makes BB and the coaching staff go a little nuts. Even BB knows what he is dealing with. I personally dont want to see manning again. Flacco/schaub anyone will do.Dont care about their reputations.

I'll lay a fitty that Dennard or Dowling are playing cb in our nickel by the end of the year. More than likely, Moore may not even be on the team.

 

[Deus Irae]

...I doubt it - considering what happened on the next drive with the Brady fumble, it ultimately only cost the Broncos 2 minutes and change. This game was not as close as it looked at the end.

I wasn't going to respond, because most of what I'd posted was pretty self-evident and the McCourty stuff is obvious enough that pretty much everyone but a comparative handful of posters here is noting it, with the only real split being just how much of a problem it is, but this needs addressing.

McGahee dropped an easy 4th down conversion that would have given the Broncos 1st and 10 from about the Patriots 45 with just under 11 minutes left in the game. He then followed that up with a fumble on the Patriots 14 with 3:48 left, when it was second down and the Broncos were obviously already in scoring range.

It doesn't take much in the way of projecting to see 10 points the Broncos could have found right there.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

It's selective memory to place more value on the McGahee forced fumble than on the Ridley forced fumble. They both took away great scoring opportunities.

It's also selective memory to place more value on the McGahee mental & physical error on the dropped pass than Patriots mental & physical errors, such as missed blocks and botched clock management that kept at least 4 points off the board before the half after a seemingly unstoppable 95 yard drive. Both circumstances affected the scoreboard.

Both teams made mistakes yet one built a 31-7 lead and had more than enough time to protect it, while unfortunately continuing to make some mistakes, but forcing mistakes, benefiting from unforced errors, and yes making some unforced errors.

 

[upstater1]

Gotta love the Manning face after the game when Brady greeted him. Had Brady given Manning a face like that after a loss, the headlines everywhere would scream, "Poor loser."

 

[BradyManny]

It doesn't take much in the way of projecting to see 10 points the Broncos could have found right there.

You can't just gift the Broncos those 10 points - those 10 points:

a) need to be earned against a defense that has consistently caused turnovers all season (3rd in the league in forcing TOs per drive)
b) take up time off the clock
c) result in giving the ball back to the Patriots in entirely different game situations

It's just too simplistic to suggest the two McGahee gaffes cost the Broncos the game.