Game Thoughts: I hope no one was injured on the plane flight home edition

[Rob0729]

Here we go:

• It isn't why they lost, but the refs were horrible and biased last night. One thing non-call most people miss is that on the last TD for the Broncos in regulation, there was a blatant illegal hands to the face block by the o-lineman. Just as bad as the one called on Vollmer late in the game. Yes, the Chung holding and Gronk OPI were bad too. That said, I refuse to make it an excuse. The Pats could have won even with the refs being against them.
• I look forward to play the Broncos in the playoffs here or in Denver. I know they were missing key players too, but they didn't have nearly as many injuries. They needed overtime to beat the Pats without Hightower (for over a half), Collins, Edelman, Amendola, and Gronk (for much of the fourth quarter and overtime) and got a huge assist from the refs. When the Pats and Broncos meet again, they should have all those guys back. I think the Pats will route them in that scenario.
• The defense can lose either Hightower or Collins, but not both. Hightower has been the unsung hero of this defense. They play him everywhere and he is the reason the Pats can have a dominant run defense. Once he went out, the run defense went from being very solid to a siv. Hopefully, he will be ok. The fact he was on the sidelines for the entire game and reportedly holding his helmet at times, usually means it isn't serious. Rarely do the Pats let a player stay on the sidelines with a serious injury. EDIT: Albert Breer says it is a sprained MCL.
• I have been touting his praise for a while, but Logan Ryan has really become a solid #2 CB and has been a big upgrade from Brandon Browner. Sure he gave up that TD at the end of the game, but he made Demaryius Thomas his biatch. He covered Thomas so tightly that Thomas quit on plays.
• Speaking of that, Denver is going to regret giving Thomas that big contract. He is a dog. If he can beat the guy covering him he is amazing. You get physical with him and make him work for his catches and he folds.
• Losing Gronk would have been the final death blow to this team. If he misses time, that could be the difference for them being the #1 seed and the #3 seed (and it would be the #4 seed if not for the AFC South). According to the latest report from Adam Schefter, he is likely to be playing against the Eagles (Schefter said that the Pats believe Gronk could have gone back in the game last night). Even with Edleman and Amendola back in the playoffs, I wouldn't like the Pats' chances to get to the Super Bowl.
• Chris Harper's drop punt return is the difference in this game. Without it, the Pats win. That said, I don't blame him. He was supposed to have a red shirt year on the practice squad and work on his skills (he has tons of potential, but very raw). I am guessing he didn't start even practicing fielding punts until he was activated two weeks ago, possibly not even until this week. He should have pulled it in, but he should never have been put in that situation. No way would the Pats ever had done it if not for injuries to Amendola and Edelman.
• Speaking of that. The loss of Danny really showed on the kick returns. They didn't even put a receiver in the end zone and were content on just taking touchbacks all night even if they got a favorable kick. The thing is this was Denver. They won't be able to risk that in Gillette Sunday or in Houston the week after. Hopefully Danny will be back.
• I am not one to complain about the play calling, but I didn't get a lot of the play calling last night. They threw deep way too much. I know they must have seen something, but when the deep ball isn't working you can't kill drives keep going to it. They did perfectly exploit a lot of the weaknesses in the Denver defense at times for huge gains and TDs. So I can't totally kill McDaniels, but I think the play calling killed too many drives last night.

 

[Mark.]

I am not one to complain about the play calling, but I didn't get a lot of the play calling last night. They threw deep way too much. I know they must have seen something, but when the deep ball isn't working you can't kill drives keep going to it. They did perfectly exploit a lot of the weaknesses in the Denver defense at times for huge gains and TDs. So I can't totally kill McDaniels, but I think the play calling killed too many drives last night.

I hated the play calling too, but wonder if it was due to the personnel (or lack thereof) that we had on the field. We rely on the short passing game and w/o Edelman, Amendola, and Lewis that was pretty much eliminated from the game. I wish they had gotten Bolden and White more involved in the game.

 

[Galeb]

I can understand fumbling punts, but when you're up 14 in the 4th quarter, you fair catch it if there is an opponent on top of you. Harper effed up.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I understand that with the injuries they had to move away from the quick underneath game. But 372 sideline bombs to Chandler? Especially when they were not close on practically any of them?

 

[PatsBoy12]

BREAKING NEWS: Josh McDaniels complained of back spasms caused by the plush seats on the charter. He is listed as doubtful for next week's game against Philly.

 

[Rob0729]

I can understand fumbling punts, but when you're up 14 in the 4th quarter, you fair catch it if there is an opponent on top of you. Harper effed up.

A fair catch probably doesn't stop him from dropping it though. But that is what happens when you have a very inexperienced punt returner.

 

[RobertWeathers]

LaFell should have hauled in 2 of the deep balls thrown. Martin pulled one in on the BS holding on Shaq.

If they catch them, it was brilliant. If if they don't, it was questionable playcalling.

 

[PatsBoy12]

LaFell should have hauled in 2 of the deep balls thrown. Martin pulled one in on the BS holding on Shaq.

If they catch them, it was brilliant. If if they don't, it was questionable playcalling.

I agree, Rob. My only beef is that why do they keep going to it? I understand trying to show the D that the threat is there, but does any defense really worry about NE going deep? If we, the fans, know the O is predicated on short to intermediate, don't high-paid, pro DC's know it too? Again, I get attempting them. What I don't get is why so many and seemingly in really crucial periods in games when, perhaps, just getting the first down is enough and should have been the goal coming out of the huddle. It just seems odd to me, almost like even the coaches are starting to feel the stress of the injuries and it's probably showing a bit in their decision making.

 

[JMC00]

It isn't why they lost,

I gotta disagree with this.

Gronk makes a 1st down to keep the drive to kill the game going, OPI
Brady completes a 50-60 yard pass to Martin to basically kill the game, OL holding
Sack to make it 3rd down and put the Broncos back at the 15, Hold on Chung. Even though it was a push off
LaFell held by Talib in OT, no call
Then there was a missed illegal hands to the face on the TD pass and a missed hold on McCourty on the TD run.

If 2-3 of those were called or not called like they should have been Pats win the game, especially the Gronk OPI or the holding on the deep pass to Martin.

 

[Galeb]

A fair catch probably doesn't stop him from dropping it though. But that is what happens when you have a very inexperienced punt returner.

I watched that replay, and the contact very likely contributed to the fumble. It was a dumb decision, case closed.

 

[Galeb]

I've heard a lot of people say Butler isn't nearly as good of an athlete as Revis, but I completely disagree. Not only can he jump, but he kept up with Sanders all game. Sure, he's not big, but he's fast, quick, can jump with good ball skills and is a great competitor. Scrap is very good, and if he stays healthy, he's gonna be awesome.

Logan Ryan has been playing like a complete corner. He's certainly not as fast as Butler, but this year his coverage has been excellent and he has very good ball skills.

The OL still needs work. Kline had a terrible game. Stork is awesome.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I agree, Rob. My only beef is that why do they keep going to it? I understand trying to show the D that the threat is there, but does any defense really worry about NE going deep? If we, the fans, know the O is predicated on short to intermediate, don't high-paid, pro DC's know it too? Again, I get attempting them. What I don't get is why so many and seemingly in really crucial periods in games when, perhaps, just getting the first down is enough and should have been the goal coming out of the huddle. It just seems odd to me, almost like even the coaches are starting to feel the stress of the injuries and it's probably showing a bit in their decision making.

Brady made the throws. It's not like JMD told him to throw to LaFell, Chandler or Martin. With that said, JMD did call the plays that had a player go deep.

Considering that the players in question were open I guess i don't really have that much of an issue with it as others do.

In snowy conditions, the WR has the advantage so that might be the logic behind the 4-5 deep throws.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I've heard a lot of people say Butler isn't nearly as good of an athlete as Revis, but I completely disagree. Not only can he jump, but he kept up with Sanders all game. Sure, he's not big, but he's fast, quick, can jump with good ball skills and is a great competitor. Scrap is very good, and if he stays healthy, he's gonna be awesome.

Logan Ryan has been playing like a complete corner. He's certainly not as fast as Butler, but this year his coverage has been excellent and he has very good ball skills.

The OL still needs work. Kline had a terrible game. Stork is awesome.

Kline was not very good last night

 

[PatsBoy12]

Brady made the throws. It's not like JMD told him to throw to LaFell, Chandler or Martin. With that said, JMD did call the plays that had a player go deep.

Considering that the players in question were open I guess i don't really have that much of an issue with it as others do.

In snowy conditions, the WR has the advantage so that might be the logic behind the 4-5 deep throws.

I hate the argument that one is more at fault than the other. No disrespect to you, Rob. Just saying that it's a bit of a cop out to say Brady made the throws, even if you did acknowledge right after that McD made the calls. Brady can check out of anything he wants any time he chooses to do so. I know that's not at all news to you (sincerely).

With all that said, I just see the past three weeks where they've lobbed up deep balls with more regularity than I seem to be able to recall other than 2007-2009. That's not Brady's strength. Our personnel, though capable of it at times, is not built that way either. Both are key reasons for why it hasn't been more effective. It's just wasted downs to me and those are critical down the stretch, which also seems to be when a lot of the deep stuff is being called lately. Just a layman's observations.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I hate the argument that one is more at fault than the other. No disrespect to you, Rob. Just saying that it's a bit of a cop out to say Brady made the throws, even if you did acknowledge right after that McD made the calls. Brady can check out of anything he wants any time he chooses to do so. I know that's not at all news to you (sincerely).

Right. There is no "fault" per se. Brady made the throw and JMD enabled it with the call.

With all that said, I just see the past three weeks where they've lobbed up deep balls with more regularity than I seem to be able to recall other than 2007-2009. That's not Brady's strength. Our personnel, though capable of it at times, is not built that way either. Both are key reasons for why it hasn't been more effective. It's just wasted downs to me and those are critical down the stretch, which also seems to be when a lot of the deep stuff is being called lately. Just a layman's observations.

I think they are trying to open up the field more.

 

[Pats2000]

Here we go:

• It isn't why they lost, but the refs were horrible and biased last night. One thing non-call most people miss is that on the last TD for the Broncos in regulation, there was a blatant illegal hands to the face block by the o-lineman. Just as bad as the one called on Vollmer late in the game. Yes, the Chung holding and Gronk OPI were bad too. That said, I refuse to make it an excuse. The Pats could have won even with the refs being against them.
• I look forward to play the Broncos in the playoffs here or in Denver. I know they were missing key players too, but they didn't have nearly as many injuries. They needed overtime to beat the Pats without Hightower (for over a half), Collins, Edelman, Amendola, and Gronk (for much of the fourth quarter and overtime) and got a huge assist from the refs. When the Pats and Broncos meet again, they should have all those guys back. I think the Pats will route them in that scenario.
• The defense can lose either Hightower or Collins, but not both. Hightower has been the unsung hero of this defense. They play him everywhere and he is the reason the Pats can have a dominant run defense. Once he went out, the run defense went from being very solid to a siv. Hopefully, he will be ok. The fact he was on the sidelines for the entire game and reportedly holding his helmet at times, usually means it isn't serious. Rarely do the Pats let a player stay on the sidelines with a serious injury. EDIT: Albert Breer says it is a sprained MCL.
• I have been touting his praise for a while, but Logan Ryan has really become a solid #2 CB and has been a big upgrade from Brandon Browner. Sure he gave up that TD at the end of the game, but he made Demaryius Thomas his biatch. He covered Thomas so tightly that Thomas quit on plays.
• Speaking of that, Denver is going to regret giving Thomas that big contract. He is a dog. If he can beat the guy covering him he is amazing. You get physical with him and make him work for his catches and he folds.
• Losing Gronk would have been the final death blow to this team. If he misses time, that could be the difference for them being the #1 seed and the #3 seed (and it would be the #4 seed if not for the AFC South). According to the latest report from Adam Schefter, he is likely to be playing against the Eagles (Schefter said that the Pats believe Gronk could have gone back in the game last night). Even with Edleman and Amendola back in the playoffs, I wouldn't like the Pats' chances to get to the Super Bowl.
• Chris Harper's drop punt return is the difference in this game. Without it, the Pats win. That said, I don't blame him. He was supposed to have a red shirt year on the practice squad and work on his skills (he has tons of potential, but very raw). I am guessing he didn't start even practicing fielding punts until he was activated two weeks ago, possibly not even until this week. He should have pulled it in, but he should never have been put in that situation. No way would the Pats ever had done it if not for injuries to Amendola and Edelman.
• Speaking of that. The loss of Danny really showed on the kick returns. They didn't even put a receiver in the end zone and were content on just taking touchbacks all night even if they got a favorable kick. The thing is this was Denver. They won't be able to risk that in Gillette Sunday or in Houston the week after. Hopefully Danny will be back.
• I am not one to complain about the play calling, but I didn't get a lot of the play calling last night. They threw deep way too much. I know they must have seen something, but when the deep ball isn't working you can't kill drives keep going to it. They did perfectly exploit a lot of the weaknesses in the Denver defense at times for huge gains and TDs. So I can't totally kill McDaniels, but I think the play calling killed too many drives last night.

I usually don't respond to these threads, but just enjoy reading them. Today though, I can't keep my mouth shut. That game was a screw job and the Pats should be walking out of there with the win. So here are a couple of my thoughts:

1. The deep passes would have worked had the refs not called all of the ones we connected on back on ticky tack plays. Obviously more than just the Pats are seeing something on the deep passes with Denver because Green Bay tried the same thing. As well, I think we have to go to a more vertical offense, considering we don't have that short/slant route quickness to gain separation right now.

2. The refs are absolutely to blame for this loss. Momentum plays a huge part in football, and the refs continually killed our drives in the 4th quarter and swung the momentum the way of the Broncos. Yes we had our miscues, but had the refs called the game fairly, or even slightly less one sided, like not taking away the Martin catch on a holding call that was really just a fantastic block. More reason to allow non-existent penalties to be challenged when they destroy big gains and swing the advantage to the other team.

3. The Brady to Chandler connection on a fly route is the worst passing combo I've seen this year. Chandler has no separation and Brady is forced to throw it where even he can't catch it.

4. Chris Harper's dropped punt was not the difference in the game. Yes it sucked, yes it put the Broncos back in scoring range. But the real difference was the 4th Quarter when the refs wouldn't let us do anything. That Martin catch called back was the true difference in the game.

5. The refs have basically stopped calling holding on Patriots D line. These guys are getting wrapped up with choke holds and nothing. While our O line is still getting the calls. This time the refs called them at critical points and killed drives.

6. Gronk has been singled out for PI. He is a point of emphasis. He is not allowed to do things other players in the game are allowed to do. It's ridiculous. The league has decided if they can't stop the Pats by taking away draft picks, and throwing a ton of controversy their way. They will do it on the field, but limiting them with penalties as much as possible with their star player.

7. Despite all the adversity and the refs completely one siding the game, it took the following for us to loose the game in overtime:

1. Gronk going out
2. HT going out
3. Amendola out
4. Edelman out
5. Collins out
6. Lewis out

So despite my complete anger at the whole deal and the fact that the Pats were robbed this game. I'm damn proud of the team. They fought against overwhelming odds and almost pulled out a win. They will be back next week and will grab at worst a 4th round seeding position. Maybe we have to play the game somewhere else, but I don't care because if we have Gronk, HT, Amendola, Edelman, and Collins back by then, there is no team that will win, with the refs against us, home field advantage or not. So all we have to do is survive to the end of the season, get healthy and we will be good.

 

[TomPatriot]

A fair catch probably doesn't stop him from dropping it though. But that is what happens when you have a very inexperienced punt returner.

He returned 122 punts at Cal. He knows how to catch and secure the ball. He just didn't secure the ball first. Neither did Emmanuel Sanders on one punt. Broncos got the bounce on that one. Obviously weather was a factor.

 

[Rob0729]

He returned 122 punts at Cal. He knows how to catch and secure the ball. He just didn't secure the ball first. Neither did Emmanuel Sanders on one punt. Broncos got the bounce on that one. Obviously weather was a factor.

I don't know anything about his college career. Didn't know he was a punt returner. My bad.

 

[SVN]

I hated the play calling too, but wonder if it was due to the personnel (or lack thereof) that we had on the field. We rely on the short passing game and w/o Edelman, Amendola, and Lewis that was pretty much eliminated from the game. I wish they had gotten Bolden and White more involved in the game.

Go back and look at the playcalling since edelman went down. Thats what they are now. Force the run and throw more vertical. Did same vs the bills. The real problem is the lack of the effective running game which is not helping make it work. This quick short passing game has been suspended until edelman comes back.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

brady was so uncharacteristicslly not composed last night. complaining about flags and non-flags quite a bit - you could tell it affected him.