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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Rob0729, Sep 26, 2011.

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  1. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1.) One of my biggest concerns with this team is the mistakes. The team is just not playing smart right now. They are one of the most penalized teams in the league and costly penalties played a big role in the Pats losing especially the Love roughing the passer and Browns PI in the endzone (I hate the PI rule being a spot foul). Brady didn't play smart either throwing the picks. One characteristic of Belichick football is usually smart football, but it is missing right now.
    2.) I know the defense has a long, long way to go before they are remotely good, but I saw some good yesterday. The Pats did force the Bills to go three and out three of the first four drives in the second half (one in the first half), they had two INTs, they shut down the Bills for stretches in the game. The problem is they are a Jeckyl and Hyde defense and when they are bad, they are really bad.
    3.) Congrats to Welker for having a career game. The Pats definitely need to extend him. He leads the NFL in receiving yards and we cannot even really enjoy it.
    4.) I think the Pats need to use Stevan Ridley more. BJGE has not been nearly as effective last year and Ridley seems to be able to do more.
    5.) I know they couldn't do it yesterday with Dowling and Chung out, but I think the Pats need to blitz far more. They barely have done it in the last two weeks. I know injuries to an already suspect secondary is a big reason for that, but they just aren't getting pressure for a four man front. The Pats need to get opposing QBs off balance because some of the problems with the secondary is because opposing QBs have all day to throw.
    6.) Anyone see Deion Branch? For all the bashing of Ochocinco and Edelman, Branch has gotten an undeserved free pass. He is either the #1 or #2 WR and he was completely shut out. I think his disappearance is a bigger screw up than what Ochocinco or Edelman did in a lot of ways.
    7.) Gronk each week is just showing how versatile he is. The guy is a deep threat, over the middle threat, and great blocker. And he is impossible to bring down.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
  2. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

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    the Good
    right now it's looks as if the only person that can stop Brady is him self, Gonk keeps geting better each week and Welker is on fire

    the Bad
    Branch is a no show in a big game, the play calling on both sides of the ball have not been good the last 3 weeks the offense gets a big lead and then they dont run the football, the defense for some reason is playing man coverage with out a pass rush
  3. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    On offense they need a higher commitment to the run and to play action. I'm not looking for a 50/50 split but yesterday was 45:26. Once you remove a Brady scramble, Welker reverse, two ill advised Edelman draws and 4 draws out of 6 runs by Woodhead that leaves 18 straight runs which isn't enough. I agree Ridley needs his shot. Going spread with the empty backfield after Ridley went for 8 and 4 back to back is unforgivable. That should have been play action or another run by Ridley.

    This defensive line as constituted at this moment is not championship caliber. Be it scheme, personnel or whatever if this doesn't change it's going to cost them come playoff time.
  4. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    Hasn't been for a while. Maybe Haynesworth can be a difference maker in the playoffs and big games. But, sure doesn't look good. You can say the same thing about our entire defense. Brady has to play a flawless game. He can do it. But, we're going to lose some games where he doesn't. And, as the Colts saw with Manning. When faced against a top notch defense in the playoffs. The rest of the squad wasn't up to snuff.

    Patrick Chung injury aside. We've let Meriweather, Sanders and J. Page go since last year. Have replaced them with; J. Barrett, Ihedigo and Ventrone. S.Brown was on the squad last year. That's some curious personnel decisions.
  5. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't know if you can just remove runs to make a point like that though. Other than Brady's run, the others are designed running plays. They count as runs.

    That said, they do need to be more committed to the run with leads. The Pats need a nice long 9 minute drive while up by 3 TDs to put a dagger in the hearts of opposing teams.
  6. Garbanza

    Garbanza Rookie

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    Worst defense I have seen the Patriot have and I have been watching for a very long time.

    Clearly this team can't overcome Brady's mistakes. When the defense needs to make a stand, it usually does not. They are ranked dead last in defense in the league. DEAD LAST.

    Clearly they do not have the horses to play man. Clearly the defense lacks speed and Clearly the d-line is not getting any pressure on opposing QB's.

    Color me confused that Belichick would change - kind of - defensive schemes in a season where there was no off season? Why would you let go of the smartest guy you had in the defensive backfield, Sanders?

    You have to question some of his decisions and personnel moves this year. Chad Ocho Cinco? Horrid. Haynesworth? Nadda so far. Letting go of two good TE prospects for Gronk #2 whom you just let go? None of this makes any sense to me.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
  7. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Way, way too much is being made of Branch.

    First off, he was doubled the entire game.

    Secondly, Brady was looking at his primary routes all game. He rarely looked Branch's way. Branch took 2 guys with him every play--he was clearly the guy the Bills were focusing on, and it opened up the field for others.
  8. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    Since when are Smith and Yeatman "good" TE prospects?
  9. Mike in 333

    Mike in 333 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's likely that our defensive personnel won't change much except that Chung will be back and Ventrone will likely go back to the PS. I don't think Haynesworth will contribute substantially if at all, physically he just isn't ready to play and if he can't play now given how little he had to play last year he may not even be on the team in a week or so. Carter and Ellis have failed to help put pressure on the QB so that aspect of our redesigned defense isn't working.
    Watching yesterday's game (I have mixed feelings about forgetting to DVR it) I kept thinking about how disorganized the defense looked while getting into their sets. The line knew their assignments but behind them there seemed to be too much repositioning that was less based on reading the offense and more because they were unclear on their coverage responsibilities. If so this is something that should be correctable with practice.
    On offense the biggest problem was Brady's accuracy and not so much because he was throwing bad passes but because his timing with the receivers seemed to be off. It's very unusual for Brady to throw a pass that gets tipped, it's usually high and beyond the receiver like the first TD pass to Gronk or, as on the Woodhead pass, low so that if it is incomplete the ball ends up on the ground. Instead he threw behind Gronk on the endzone int and slightly higher than usual on the Woodhead tip which was really a freak interception because 99 out of 100 times the ball goes out of bounds.
    Offensively we appear to handle adversity a little differently than the earlier years; we seem to like to go for the bigger play to get back in the game rather than trying to put together a balanced drive. At no point yesterday was it to our advantage to have the Bills offense on the field but it looked like the 2nd half drives were designed to be in the 3 to 4 minute range; get back in the lead as fast as possible and make Buffalo catch up. This didn't work well.
  10. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In Branch's defense you said yourself he was blanketed, possibly because he carried the load just last week... He was never great against the double team, which is why he was never a true #1. That said, Ocho is shaping up to be closer to Galloway than even bad Moss... And Edelman is a solid punt returner, lacks the speed for KO, had 1 reception for 5 yards heading into yesterdays game which with Welker playing makes his selection as the 3rd or 4th WR a headscratcher and his use as a 4th RB (he's 4-19 and 2 fumbles in his career) just mindnumbing. I know Bill values versatility, and loves to scramble defenses eggs with varied personnel groupings, but trying to hard sell it when you have more talented/productuve guys at your disposal is counter productive. I'm reminded of the scene from Bill's football life where he admonishes BOB and TFB that he's not going to let them F around at the line with motions and crap incessantly, just not going to do it... Sometimes I think we get too cute. Just put the best personnel on the field and run your offense. I think yesterday we even overdid the hurry-up and did what Brady said you have to be careful of which is confusing and rushing yourself into bad execution.
  11. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There are plenty of personnel additions that will happen. Chung will be back. Dowling will be back and he has been pretty good so far for a rookie. Wright will likely be back. Brace and Deadrick will be back in three weeks potentially. Too early to give up on Haynesworth. He has been dominant at times. He will likely get better.

    The return of Chung and Dowling will allow the Pats to blitz more. They haven't been able to do that much this season. Last week they couldn't because they needed to double Gates. With other teams, they will have opportunities. This upcoming week may be such a week.

    Also, you watch Belichick and he is usually far more conservative on defense early in the season and then unloads later in the season. The tema needs to gel more before they can start throwing a lot of exotic stuff.
  12. Sivy

    Sivy Rookie

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    Well, I was going to kill myself but then I realized its a game that I have no controll over and that its not a one game season..so I took the rope off my neck, climbed down off the chair and said "what the heck, I bet there is a 99 percent chance the pats make the playoffs and the bills don't."
  13. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am not going to get on the 4th and 5th receiving options as much as I am going to get on #1 and #2. That is why I hold Branch more accountable.

    Yes, Branch was blanketed. He didn't look doubled nearly as much as Upstarter said, but I can be wrong.

    As for Ochocinco, too early to compare him to Galloway. He has been with the team for less than two months. It took Gaffney about three months to catch on with the Pats' offense and that is how long I am going to give Ochocinco before I start to give up on him.
  14. Garbanza

    Garbanza Rookie

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    Gaffney wasn't as bad as Ocho is right now.

    I am ready to give up on him. I hope and pray BB will be soon. Problem is, BB has an ego the size of Manhattan.

    I can't help but recall a soundbite from the BB NFL network documentary. "I won't get mad, I'll just get even." 1) Hope so 2) how is that going to happen with absolute bunk on defense?
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
  15. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You can hold him as accountable as you like and it won't matter a hill of beans. Just like he didn't sniff a reception in the preseason, Branch is here because he is down with being a situational weapon with a QB who knows how to use him situationally on the back 9 of his career. He will continue to run his routes hard even on weeks when he knows he's not a featured part of the game plan or he's being taken away as a primary option early or late. He will continue to do the little things to try to help his unit mates succeed. That's why he's here and that's why they are paying him a third of what Ocho is getting and half of what Welker is being underpaid... Gaffney was a jag...you're comparing Ocho to a jag... Upstater was watching the whole field from the stadium, you were watching the same TV feed as I was... You'd just rather write off Branch than Ocho...because he's Ocho and you always thought he was more talented than Branch. Trouble is fit and instinct often trumps talent in this discipline and execution driven system.
  16. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You forget the 2006 season. In ten games, Gaffney had 11 catches for 142 yards and 1 TD. Ochocinco has 5 catches for 87 yards in three games. Ochocinco is on pace for his first ten games to have 17 catches and 290 yards. Not great to say the least, but better than what Gaffney brought in the regular season in 2006.

    As for Belichick's ego, you are overstating it. Belichick has dumped high draft picks after a few years. If Belichick had the ego you suggested, Maroney would never have been traded and Chad Jackson would never have been cut.
  17. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    FWIW, it sounds like they made a special emphasis of taking Branch out of the game, much the same way that the Pats did with Welker in Welker's last Pats-Fins game with Miami.
  18. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just to be clear, they did NOT release both Yeatman and Smith with the express purpose of signing D.Gronk.

    They figured at least one of them would clear waivers, but neither did.
  19. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    First, I am not writing off on Branch. I thought he had a bad game. It doesn't mean he won't get over 100 yards and 3 TDs next week. Don't put words in my mouth. I think it is fair to point out that I thought he had a bad game. He is a good WR and will continue to be good. I expect more out of Branch than Ochocinco. So if he doesn't perform, I will hold his feet to the fire more than Ochocinco too.

    Second, I think you compared Ocho to Gaffney in giving him time just a few weeks ago. Gaffney is just the best comparison because he is the only WR who really came in with a similiar situation as Ocho and succeeded. No other WR has ever come in with no offseason and been effective on this team.

    Third, I love how you are manufacturing this mythical agenda I have. I think Branch is a better WR (at least for this offense) at this point in their careers than Ocho even if Ocho lived up to expectations. Ocho is a different WR and can do different things, but I always expected Branch to be the #1 WR or #2 WR and Ocho as a big upgrade from Tate. So far I have been wrong.

    Fourth, I said I could be wrong about how often Branch was doubled, but I saw guys like Gronk, Ochocinco, and Welker get double teamed on a lot of plays. You can't double team two and three receivers on every play especially against this offense.

    Please don't try to manufacture an agenda for me. It wasn't my objective. I love Branch. I just thought he had a bad game. And again, I hold starters more accountable than back ups.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
  20. condon84

    condon84 Rookie

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    Good post.

    The good: the offense.

    I agree that we need to incorporate the run a little bit more. Passing this much is risky business in terms of TOs and injuries. Attacking the defense with a running game will get our guys a chance to hit them instead of taking the hits. Nevertheless, Brady is still the most dominant QB in the game and is the reason why we are who we are. He's not gonna have a lot of these types of games so If he decides to rip it 50 times and we win the game, why not.

    The bad: the Defense.

    This defense is horrible. We are playing a scheme that doesn't fit our personnel. Our DBs have shown the inability to play man coverage and while our pass rush is not helping, they are also not given enough time to develop because guys get so open so quickly. We don't have a Dwight Freeney or a Clay Matthews, so our pass rush needs a bit more time that our secondary doesn't allow. We need to switch back to zone. It would help our DBs and would play to their strengths. Our run defense also needs some work. They ran through our middle which is where our better players are. If we continue to play one gap, then these guys need to stay discipline and stay in their gaps. Our LBs are getting lost and not plugging the holes. Mayo looks lost out there as a OLB when the run is through the middle and Spikes played awful yesterday.

    We are gonna ride and die with our offense. Our defense will get better, but they have a lot of work to do.
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