Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren't 'a Good Fit'

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren?t ?a Good Fit?

Let me start by posting something I'd written on another site, regarding what you feel Galloway would have added:



Clearly there was a team failure at some level. That much, I think, we can all agree on. It's also pretty clear that the lack of a WR3 made the Patriots, particularly Moss, much easier to defend. The issue moving forth is discerning fault not to assess blame, but to avoid a repeat of the problem moving forward, and to figure out why the head coach/front office did such a terrible job of recovering from the failure.

Recovery from in season failure is a real crap shoot. They were already dealing with Welker being out, and Edleman stepping in. Then Edleman broke his forearm once Welker was back. Tate came off PUP and quickly landed on IR. Nunn got nabbed off the PS but perhaps they didn't think he was any more viable than Stanbeck or Aiken or Slater. Lots of teams were looking for receivers this season, including in season. There wasn't much to look at. I know you mentioned Matt Jones, but for some reason no one came close to touching him no matter how desperate they were for another wideout. We've won Superbowls with street FA filling gaps in season. This year there just wasn't anything to do that would have appreciably upgraded over what he had to work with on this roster. And unlike in those superbowl seasons, defenses had a bead on what we have become, which is limited and predictable. And not because the OC is a dolt...

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Re: Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren?t ?a Good Fit?

If he was targeted 20 times that's a 35% success rate, or a 65% failure rate depending on your POV. Brady to Moss was successful 59% I believe. Brady to Welker was around 75%. Success rate speaks volumes about why some guys get thrown to a lot, others not so much, and some get cut...

I agree, though not all of those missed targets were his fault. Brady really struggled the first part of the season. Remember the Broncos game when Welker had the chance to take it to the house but Brady saw something else and the throw went to his feet instead? And Welker has great chemistry with TB.

I just think we pulled the plug a bit too early. Even Gaffney only managed 11 catches his first season with the Patriots. It's clear Galloway was struggling with the system, and I was getting really frustrated with him too, but I think they over-reacted a bit. He certainly would have done more than Aiken or Slater.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren?t ?a Good Fit?

Recovery from in season failure is a real crap shoot. They were already dealing with Welker being out, and Edleman stepping in. Then Edleman broke his forearm once Welker was back. Tate came off PUP and quickly landed on IR. Nunn got nabbed off the PS but perhaps they didn't think he was any more viable than Stanbeck or Aiken or Slater. Lots of teams were looking for receivers this season, including in season. There wasn't much to look at. I know you mentioned Matt Jones, but for some reason no one came close to touching him no matter how desperate they were for another wideout. We've won Superbowls with street FA filling gaps in season. This year there just wasn't anything to do that would have appreciably upgraded over what he had to work with on this roster. And unlike in those superbowl seasons, defenses had a bead on what we have become, which is limited and predictable. And not because the OC is a dolt...

I mention Jones just as an example. The point is that the team didn't bring in anyone, instead choosing to go with a career special teams player in the role. As for the limited/predictable, that's what having Sam Aiken as your WR3 will do to you. In comparison to what was actually done, the team would have been better off keeping Galloway even if he didn't progress at all.

As for it being an in season failure, why did it take the team so long to figure out that there was a problem? They got rid of Lewis before game 3, after all.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren?t ?a Good Fit?

I agree, though not all of those missed targets were his fault. Brady really struggled the first part of the season. Remember the Broncos game when Welker had the chance to take it to the house but Brady saw something else and the throw went to his feet instead? And Welker has great chemistry with TB.

I just think we pulled the plug a bit too early. Even Gaffney only managed 11 catches his first season with the Patriots. It's clear Galloway was struggling with the system, and I was getting really frustrated with him too, but I think they over-reacted a bit. He certainly would have done more than Aiken or Slater.

Nobody's perfect. Not even Brady and Welker. Tom will misfire every now and again. So does Manning. Welker will zig when he really should have zagged, so will Reggie Wayne. But at the end of the day if you connect 75% of the time neither of you is part of the problem.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren?t ?a Good Fit?

Nobody's perfect. Not even Brady and Welker. Tom will misfire every now and again. So does Manning. Welker will zig when he really should have zagged, so will Reggie Wayne. But at the end of the day if you connect 75% of the time neither of you is part of the problem.

Anyone watching those first 3 games could see how erratic Brady was. That miss on the easy out to Edelman is a perfect example. It's not surprising that his completion percentage early in his comeback would have been significantly higher when throwing to players he's thrown to thousands of times before than when throwing to new players.

 

[Jimke]

Re: Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren?t ?a Good Fit?

I attended the Atlanta game in which Galloway was awful. First,
he caught an easy touchdown pass. The only problem was he was
out of bounds at the time. Then, he dropped a pass to kill a touchdown drive. Finally, he caught a 7 yard pass and the fans
gave him a mock cheer. I think he was benched after this game.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Re: Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren?t ?a Good Fit?

At least nobody has counted down all the draft picks the Pats spend while Collie and Garcon were still on the board (if they're even both rooks... but you get the idea.)

I don't think they pull the plug on a guy that fast -- and it was pretty fast -- unless there's some kind of impasse: Either they came to believe that he could not get open in a way that allowed Brady to get him the ball, or the combination of his belief of how plays should go did not match up with the team's expectations.

This dovetails with the oft-stated belief that he didn't run routes right. The second possibility, viewed through this prism, is just an expansion of the first possibility, with the additional impact of Galloway's processing of the situation differing from the team's processing of the situation (coaches, or even possibly Brady's.)

Moss/Brady had plenty of time to develop chemistry, and Moss proved himself as a Patriot. If Moss gets "creative" with a route, we've seen specific examples where he and Brady both see something in the coverage that makes the creativity a good idea. Though we had little chance to see such a thing develop w/Galloway, I don't remember any such example occuring - but if Galloway is getting open when Brady isn't able to get him the ball (the contention of many,) that signifies that half the combination worked, Galloway's half.

To prove that perspective you have to decide how often that happened, out of the not-targeted plays, to add to the targeted-but-unsuccessful plays, to get an answer as to Galloway's "just a bad fit" analysis.

Dealing w/an injured QB on the mend, were I a wide receiver trying to catch on with a team starting from 0 history w/them, I would definitely make it my business to be what that QB needed of me. I think that's the bad fit he's talking about.

He came to New England to be....whatever... seems like a bad idea. Had he said "I came to NE to be whatever they needed of me," I'd be way more likely to think he was misused.

Brady/Moss did not have their 2007 year again in 2009, though Brady/Welker, for the most part, did. What does that tell you about the QB on the mend needing options more than he needed HR threats?

Galloway's a household word. He's supposed to be a speed guy. That wasn't going to be the answer in the 2009 NE offense. A QB needs time (O line) to hit a speed guy. The speed guy has to be open. The QB's delivery can't be suspect. None of these conditions pertained.

Everybody was afraid of Brady going deep on them in 07. Nobody was by the end of 09. He was a threat but not a reliable one because there were accuracy issues. In 07, if you rolled the dice on a long pass coverage, you WOULD pay. In 09, sometimes you might pay. Not that often.

So really there's two possibilities: 1) Galloway wanted to be part of NE07, and when that couldn't happen, could not adjust, and 2) NE wanted Galloway to be part of NE07, and when they realized this was 09, Galloway became expendable.

Between the team and Joey, I would bet the inflexibility came from the player, but I also think this is just a lot of words to come up w/the same conclusion Galloway came up with, and trying to split hairs on a "blame" issue that's really only important to us.... to Galloway/NE, screw it, they cut the cord, no hard feelings, have a nice life.

PFnV

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren?t ?a Good Fit?

I agree. Seems like there should have been a meeting of the minds on his role. He's terrible in traffic. If that's what they wanted him to do, why acquire him?

Indeed. I'm not sure if they expected him to constantly go into traffic (probably so considering the roles we have for the WR's in this system), but if they did then they shouldn't have signed him. Like Randy Moss, Joey Galloway is not and has NEVER been the type of WR to get the tough yards over the middle. Expecting him to come in and change his style after all of these years would just be a terrible decision. I stand by my original position that the Pats should have become accustomed to his game and allowed him to run routes that he was comfortable with, all the while easing him into the greater scheme of things on the offense.

 

[FalconHeavy]

Re: Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren?t ?a Good Fit?

Indeed. I'm not sure if they expected him to constantly go into traffic (probably so considering the roles we have for the WR's in this system), but if they did then they shouldn't have signed him. Like Randy Moss, Joey Galloway is not and has NEVER been the type of WR to get the tough yards over the middle. Expecting him to come in and change his style after all of these years would just be a terrible decision. I stand by my original position that the Pats should have become accustomed to his game and allowed him to run routes that he was comfortable with, all the while easing him into the greater scheme of things on the offense.

Completely agree. Given the depth issues we had with WR and a special teamer used as #3, I still think we could have used him down the stretch. Having 2 speedsters to worry about throws a wrinkle for the opposing D, which by the way was never the case this whole season, as O lacked imagination.

At least it would not have been that obvious game plan "take out Welker, game over "

 

[condon84]

Re: Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren?t ?a Good Fit?

Well, that explains why Brady never looked at anyone other than Welker and Moss.

We rarely committed to the run, Brady had tunnel vision to Wes and Welker, so is this the kind of offense we'll have without an OC?

 

[bucky]

Re: Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren?t ?a Good Fit?

Anyone watching those first 3 games could see how erratic Brady was. That miss on the easy out to Edelman is a perfect example. It's not surprising that his completion percentage early in his comeback would have been significantly higher when throwing to players he's thrown to thousands of times before than when throwing to new players.

There's no question that the failure is system-wide. But for the purposes of this thread, what Galloway says about the role of the third WR is just a complete bunch of bull. Based on the box score, he did not see a pass thrown his way vs. Buffalo, but then had 12 throws vs. the Jets and 5 (tied for second on the team) vs. Atlanta. What's more, Aiken was targeted 5 times the following week and we already know that Gaffney played a significant role here in '08 and '07 (along with Stallworth, who could have been considered the 4th WR). There's no doubt that he's just covering his sorry ass with such a lame statement.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren?t ?a Good Fit?

Damning indictment of Belichick and the offense if this is true.

LOL. More like very simply conflicting opinions on one's worth. Galloway believed he was more capable than the Patriots did. The fact that Galloway didn't sign anywhere is a "damning indictment" of Galloway's loss of ability.

His words are nothing to be upset about nor do they reflect poorly on anyone involved. It's simply a case of an aged WR wanting to do more than he can.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren?t ?a Good Fit?

There's no question that the failure is system-wide. But for the purposes of this thread, what Galloway says about the role of the third WR is just a complete bunch of bull. Based on the box score, he did not see a pass thrown his way vs. Buffalo, but then had 12 throws vs. the Jets and 5 (tied for second on the team) vs. Atlanta. What's more, Aiken was targeted 5 times the following week and we already know that Gaffney played a significant role here in '08 and '07 (along with Stallworth, who could have been considered the 4th WR). There's no doubt that he's just covering his sorry ass with such a lame statement.

Yup, and Galloway was targeted 20 times on the year while only catching 7 of them. Others can blame that on Brady all they want, but that's by far the worst rate of any of our receivers, TEs, RBs.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren?t ?a Good Fit?

There's no question that the failure is system-wide. But for the purposes of this thread, what Galloway says about the role of the third WR is just a complete bunch of bull. Based on the box score, he did not see a pass thrown his way vs. Buffalo, but then had 12 throws vs. the Jets and 5 (tied for second on the team) vs. Atlanta. What's more, Aiken was targeted 5 times the following week and we already know that Gaffney played a significant role here in '08 and '07 (along with Stallworth, who could have been considered the 4th WR). There's no doubt that he's just covering his sorry ass with such a lame statement.

Actually, that's incorrect. You're missing something that actually reinforces Galloway's point: Welker played in game 1, but missed games 2 and 3.

 

[JMarr]

Re: Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren?t ?a Good Fit?

Can't imagine Bill ever hires someone to be a #3 WR without expecting them to be able to learn the playbook, make at least fundamental reads and rudimentary adjustments, run all the routes at least competently, get open against single coverage and make fundamentally sound plays like staying inbounds in the EZ or catching the damn ball when it hits you in the hands.

No evidence that Galloway couldn't learn the playbook. Making reads and adjustments is not a one way street and usually comes with time sufficient time working with your QB (assuming he's back up to playing speed himself). Welker drops passes. Using a couple of drops to make your point is a non-starter. I do agree that the end-zone route Galloway ran out of bounds is not what you want to see from a vet player of his caliber.

Point is, we'll probably never know what happened with Galloway and his words probably mean very little. However, if we're trying to parse some kind of meaning out of the Galloway fiasco, Chad O'Shea says hello.

It all goes back to theme of most post-season discussion: BB was spread too thin and there was some failure on the part of the coaching staff. The impact of losing several coaches the same year you lose the the director of player personnel was huge. We might have done better had all those guys remained in place and a low-priced HC been brought in.

 

[bucky]

Re: Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren?t ?a Good Fit?

Actually, that's incorrect. You're missing something that actually reinforces Galloway's point: Welker played in game 1, but missed games 2 and 3.

Actually, I'm not missing anything. I checked that out too. Edelman, playing in Welker's spot, was targeted 16 times vs. the Jets and 5 times vs. Atlanta. Of course the big difference between those 2 games - Moss dominated Atlanta and was thrown at 16 times. Then there's the previous 2 full years when Welker was healthy and Gaffney performed pretty well.

It's actually all you need to know when the #2 WR goes down and Brady throws more passes to a rookie 7th round pick than to Galloway.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren?t ?a Good Fit?

Actually, I'm not missing anything. I checked that out too. Edelman, playing in Welker's spot, was targeted 16 times vs. the Jets and 5 times vs. Atlanta. Of course the big difference between those 2 games - Moss dominated Atlanta and was thrown at 16 times. Then there's the previous 2 full years when Welker was healthy and Gaffney performed pretty well.

It's actually all you need to know when the #2 WR goes down and Brady throws more passes to a rookie 7th round pick than to Galloway.

One would expect the slot receiver in the current offense to get lots of targets. What was telling was the number of targets for Galloway before Welker went down. It's all you need to know, as you put it.

And, therefore, yes, you're missing something.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren?t ?a Good Fit?

One would expect the slot receiver in the current offense to get lots of targets. What was telling was the number of targets for Galloway before Welker went down. It's all you need to know, as you put it.

And, therefore, yes, you're missing something.

Galloway Receptions / Targets

Week 1: 0 / 2
Week 2: 5 / 13
Week 3: 2 / 6

Welker was out weeks 2 and 3, Brady tried to get Galloway the ball but Galloway was unreliable. When Welker came back, why would you want Brady to continue to throw to such an unreliable target? Galloway just doesn't have it anymore. It's not an indictment on BB, Brady or the offense.

 

[bucky]

Re: Galloway Says He & Patriots Weren?t ?a Good Fit?

One would expect the slot receiver in the current offense to get lots of targets.

What was telling was the number of targets for Galloway before Welker went down.

Deus,

Those are your 2 quotes and they are contradicting each other. First, you are saying that it's irrelevant who's on the field because the "slot" receiver gets lots of targets. Then you're saying that it only matters what Galloway got when Welker was on the field.

So, which is it?

Either way you look at it, Galloway was the #3 WR in all 3 games and he got plenty of throws his way. Then, there's the irrefutable evidence that for the 48 games or so over the past 3 years (including the playoffs) when both Moss and Welker were on the field together, the # 3 and 4 WRs got just as many looks as any other #3 and 4 WRs in the NFL. Oh, and then there's the subtle fact that after 3 games, BB banished Galloway from the playing field.

And meanwhile, your counterargument is based on statistics from 1 game! Stop being a stubborn moron because you're beginning to sound just as ludicrous as Galloway himself.

 

[BradyFTW!]

The question that stems from this, I guess, is *why* didn't the WR3 have much of a role in the offense? If it's because Joey Galloway sucked and was useless, then that makes sense. If that's just how it is now with the Pats, then our offensive gameplanning has managed to go an neutralize one of Brady's greatest strengths.