Welcome to PatsFans.com

Full electricity in Baghdad 6 years off

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Mar 2, 2007.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,727
    Likes Received:
    125
    Ratings:
    +160 / 4 / -4

    If $4.2 billion nets 6 hours a day of electricity, do you think another $12.6 billion will solve the problem? And imagine living without electricity for 18 hours a day, while troops march through your city, curfews are declared, and terrorists blow up innocent civilians. I wonder what the Iraqis did with those American flags they were supposed to wave?

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/iraq/bal-te.powerless02mar02,0,644223.story?track=rss

    Getting full-time electric power turned on in Baghdad, a key wartime goal toward which the United States has spent $4.2 billion dollars, won't be accomplished until the year 2013, U.S. officials said yesterday, in what others called a significant setback for the new U.S. initiatives to quell Iraq's bloody insurgency.

    Power outages in the Iraqi capital are frequent, leaving residents without electricity for an average of 17 or 18 hours a day. For most residents without personal generators, that means not just no lights but dead radios and televisions, heaters, washing machines and water pumps.

    Army Brig. Gen. Michael J. Walsh, the senior U.S. military officer overseeing reconstruction efforts, told reporters yesterday via video teleconference that the Iraq government plans to increase power generation "to catch up with demand" for electric power by 2013, "somewhere in around that area."

    When President Bush announced in January that he was sending additional troops to Baghdad, he said the initiative must go "beyond military operations." Ordinary Iraqis, Bush said, "must see visible improvements" in their neighborhoods.
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    40,960
    Likes Received:
    97
    Ratings:
    +173 / 5 / -21

    You math is off any increase is geometric, so it would be something like 51.2 billion.. gotta line all of the pockets of the war profiteers.
  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,795
    Likes Received:
    143
    Ratings:
    +290 / 4 / -2

    Well, considering demand has increased 70%, should we be surprised? Iraq had, and still has, awful infrastructure from years of sanctions, and lack of improvements. It's not as if Iraq was like Boston. The situation stinks, but the circumstances are somewhat significant, don't you think? Furthermore, the security situation in Baghdad makes it so, whereas other regions are in much better shape.

    American and Iraqi engineers have struggled with rickety power generating and distribution facilities and sabotage by insurgents and scavengers.

    The larger problem, Walsh said, is a good-news one: that since 2003, more people are able to buy electric appliances. He said demand for electricity has risen 70 percent since 2003.

    "We find ourselves constantly chasing increasing demand," Walsh said.
  4. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    7,669
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    We decimated Iraq's infrastructure, and have been doing a piss poor job building it back up.

    Frankly, if I was 10 year old Iraqi kid right now, with the violence against maybe some of my relatives, the US occupation, no electricity, and felt powerless over things, I would probably get pretty militant against the US.

    The Iraq invasion is going to haunt this country for the next 50 years.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2007
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,618
    Likes Received:
    64
    Ratings:
    +120 / 7 / -13

    They had partial elec service before the war. The situation with respect to the infrastructure may be better than before the war.

    As RW points out the demand is up as the economy there is getting on it's feet. Something you wouldn't realize listening to the US MSM.
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,795
    Likes Received:
    143
    Ratings:
    +290 / 4 / -2

    Tough to keep the power going when the savage primitives are destroying the towers, and attacking the repair workers.

    December 19, 2006
    Iraq Insurgents Starve Capital of Electricity

    By JAMES GLANZ
    BAGHDAD, Dec. 18 — Over the past six months, Baghdad has been all but isolated electrically, Iraqi officials say, as insurgents have effectively won their battle to bring down critical high-voltage lines and cut off the capital from the major power plants to the north, south and west.

    The battle has been waged in the remotest parts of the open desert, where the great towers that support thousands of miles of exposed lines are frequently felled with explosive charges in increasingly determined and sophisticated attacks, generally at night. Crews that arrive to repair the damage are often attacked and sometimes killed, ensuring that the government falls further and further behind as it attempts to repair the lines.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/19/w...84400&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=print
  7. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0

    Full electricity in Mississippi any day now.

    They been saying this for 60 years in some parts of the state, and yet....

    You can't always get what you want, but if you try real hard, you get what you need.


    //
  8. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0


    complete and utter bullsh!t.... provide a link, or stop with the wild made-up assertions... everything i've read suggested Iraq was among the most modernized countries in the Middle East... if you're going to suggest 5-10% without electricity is "partial service", you're really distorting the issue to fit your agenda, as usual...

    it most certainly isn't BETTER than before the occupation, liar...
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,795
    Likes Received:
    143
    Ratings:
    +290 / 4 / -2

    Dude, just read the links in this thread and you'll see. Baghdad had between 16-24 hours of power prior to the war, whereas the rest of the country was in the 6 hour range. The average in Bagdhad has declined, but the average of the outside regions has increased. Why get so upset? It's like you want bad news. Remember, 10 years of sanctions were crippling for Iraq. Their infrastructure was nothing remotely similar to what you see on your street. Some may describe Iraq as modern for the ME, but in reality what does that mean?
  10. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    what??? lol... i'm not upset, so cease appopriating my mood, as well as my stance... let's not confuse "upset" with merely holding blustery Con man nonsense accountable ... ROFLMAO...

    ah, good, at least you guys linked a major metro newspaper for once and not some joker's blog, so i will give your report a bit of credence... but, clearly, it's not unamimous... anyhow, here's what i've read:

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060209/news_1n9rebuild.html

    Infrastructure in Iraq below prewar levels

    By James Glanz
    NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE

    February 9, 2006

    WASHINGTON – Virtually every measure of the performance of Iraq's oil, electricity, water and sewerage sectors has fallen below pre-invasion levels even though $16 billion of U.S. taxpayer money already has been disbursed in the Iraq reconstruction program, several government witnesses told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee yesterday.

    Of seven different measures of infrastructure performance presented at the committee hearing by the Inspector General's Office, only one was above levels before the U.S.-led invasion in 2003.

    AdvertisementThose that had slumped were electrical generation capacity, hours of power available in a day in Baghdad, oil and heating oil production and the numbers of Iraqis with drinkable water and sewage service.


    http://www.cfr.org/publication/10971/iraqs_faltering_infrastructure.html
    Introduction
    Three years after the fall of Saddam, many Iraqis still lack basic amenities like potable water, regularly endure power outages, and have yet to fully benefit from their country's immense oil wealth. "Efforts to rebuild Iraq are failing," says Representative Henry Waxman (D-CA), a leading Democratic critic of Bush administration reconstruction efforts. "We've spent $2 billion and the situation is worse than when we arrived." With triple-digit temperatures fast approaching, "the amount of electricity has to improve for people to survive," said Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari in a June 16 CFR meeting. Although security remains Iraqis' foremost concern, one out of every three Iraqis say restoring infrastructure—not job creation, amending the constitution, or expelling U.S. troops—should be the government's top priority, according to a March 2006 International Republican Institute poll.

    How is the quality of life for average Iraqis?
    Iraq's human development indicators are among the lowest in the Middle East, according to the World Bank. Back in the 1970s and 1980s, Iraq led the Middle East in development of infrastructure, social services, and health care. Yet after years of successive wars and sanctions, many Iraqis today do not have access to basic staples like potable water and electricity. A shortage of hospitals and health-care facilities has added to their hardships. Current health statistics on Iraq are difficult to find, but a UNICEF report said Iraq's mortality rate for children under five rose from 5 percent in 1990 to 12.5 percent in 2004.

    Of 142 health clinics slated for construction with $180 million in U.S. funds, only six have been built so far, according to a recent report by the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction (SIGIR), a U.S.-funded independent oversight office. Water access also remains limited. Only around 8 million Iraqis—one-quarter of the population—have access to potable water, compared to nearly 13 million before the war. Of the 136 water and sanitation projects originally planned by the U.S. government, just forty-nine are expected to be completed. Finally, a recent report by the New York Times claims that "black oil," a byproduct of oil refineries, is polluting the Tigris River and contaminating water supplies in northern Iraq.

    What explains Iraq’s lack of electricity?
    Iraq has generated roughly 4,000 megawatts per month since the fall of Saddam in March 2003, well short of the American government’s stated goal of 6,000 megawatts per month. In May 2006, there were less than ten hours of electricity per day nationwide; in Baghdad, that number dropped to below four hours a day. One neighborhood in central Baghdad had no power for over a month, according to a June 6 cable (PDF) sent by the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, made public by the Washington Post. The reasons for these lingering electicity shortages are multifold. “We misjudged the environment,” says Frederick Barton, co-director of the Center for Strategic and International Studies’ Post-Conflict Reconstruction Project, “and decided to do the simplest solution, which was to build or refurbish large, centralized facilities, and misjudged there was going to be chronic sabotage, looting, and other things.” A better plan, he says, would have been to set up neighborhood generators, run by locals, capable of reaching between forty and fifty houses. “If there were a problem, everyone would know where to go to solve it,” Barton says. Iraq’s power outages are also due to interruptions at the micro level, experts say, which include damaged transmission lines from insurgent attacks and insecure relay stations.

    How does current power generation compare with the Saddam era?
    Experts say power disruptions and brownouts also occurred under Saddam but that service is even less reliable now. "There's no question that [power outages] are worse now," says a UN development official, who would only speak on condition of anonymity. After the first Gulf War, when U.S. planes shelled Iraqi power stations and disrupted much of the country's electricity grid, Saddam's government acted relatively quickly to restore service, especially in Baghdad.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2007
  11. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0


    And everyone knows the sacred New York Times has never had an agenda.

    :rofl:


    Please don't take EVERYONE as an utter fool.


    //
  12. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    nah, just you...

    anyhow, yes, we've heard you sing this gawd awful song a time or 10... another Fox talking point... fact is, the New York Times was INSTRUMENTAL in pushing the fraudulent intel YOU make excuses for... Cheney and Company CHOSE the New York Times to get the message out.... do a little research, and google Judith Miller... they enabled this war, mmm-kay?

    good try, though...
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2007
  13. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0



    My point EXACTLY. Thanks, PC, for your usual "eloquence".

    The NYTimes is unreliable, changeable, goes the way the wind blows -- the same way most politicians do. The NYTimes has an agenda: to be on the side that's winning. To quote Bobby Dylan: that's not cool. That's called "being a whore".

    //

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>