FTR, just to be fair...

[patsox23]

My understanding had been that his friend had logged in and that Ian had banned him, not because of NEM's having logged in under his name PREVIOUSLY, but because Ian believed it was a made-up name/story and that NEM was continuing to do so.

If I'm wrong, I'm sure Ian will tell me so, but I didn't think it was that big a deal for me to appeal to people's better angels and hope something could be worked out.

AJ, I appreciate the fine line you're attempting to walk between snarky/frustrated and "not calling you out." I really have tried to be honest and fair here. I have occasionally fallen victim to just getting sick of certain poster's bullying attitudes, and for that I'm regretful. But for the most part, I'm doing my best to be kind to someone who, whether or not he deserves it, really sort of NEEDS it. And the antipathy it has engendered in some people on this board simply blows my mind.

Anyway, thanks for promoting an alternate view with at least a little respect.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Patsox23, I detected a rare emotion in your post--the one that started this thread--kindness. There was also, I believe, a bit of wisdom there, which is almost unprecedented on forums such as these.

Of course, this is Ian's decision and Ian has demonstrated his fairness and good judgment many times. He is a mature adult, which is rather unusual in the messageboard world.

But Patsox23 was expressing his opinion in a kind and generous way, and those who've dumped on him could learn from him, in my opinion. I happen to agree with Patsox23 on this issue, but I have great respect for Ian at the same time.

Some have said that Patsox23 should have contacted Ian directly instead of expressing his opinion here. I don't agree. Even a banned NEM is part of the family and comment about his situation is fair and useful.

I love Patsfans.com for the football knowledge displayed here. Some people here make the mainstream media--and even some coaches--seem ******ed. As a Patriots fan, I find that truly admirable.

However, some posters reveal aspects of their personality and their character here that are immature, indulgent and occasionally cruel. I only hope that they are better people in real life.

There is kindness, and then there is being an enabler. This was never open for further discussion per Ian, so dragging the discussion back onto the main board despite his locking numerous referendum threads over the course of the last several weeks is in fact disrespecting Ian's decisionmaking ability.

As far as your perception that some here making coaches seem "******ed" is admirable, that in itself speaks volumes about your personality.

All posters reveal aspects of their personality and character here, and one poster in particular has been consistently among the most immature, indulgent and occasionally cruel of all. Unfortunately I think that is likely the case in his real life as well, whatever that is. Which is why Ian suggested he could better use the time wasted here to try and rectify that circumstance. Apparently he disagreed, and proceeded to defy Ian (ever so tongue in cheekishly ) so Ian apparently chose to cease being his friend's enabler in hopes it would ultimately prove to benefit them both.

 

[patsox23]

Guys, I know I started this thread, and I know a lot of you don't understand and just think I'm a bleeding heart, and that's fine - and probably true. The thing has gone on long enough and I'm happy to have it die on the vine. I'm sure Ian will make a good decision, or stick with what he feels is ALREADY a good decision. I know he cares about NEM, too, and is doing the best job anyone could of dealing with a difficult situation.

Thanks for all your input. Sorry if it clogged the board up, but I think NEM is worth it.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy, the rules are the rules.

Except they're not. Even in football. Sometimes the Zebras let 'em play, sometimes they don't, for reasons that have nothing to do with the rules.

Unless we're talking about the rules Moses brought down from the mountain, rules can be changed, rules have "play" in them, rules are applied by human beings, who add their own judgment to the rules.

That's why mandatory sentencing is such a disaster. It wipes out everything that doesn't connect to the rules, such as circumstance, motive and mercy.

That's why we have judges in courts, not not just rule-readers. Judges use intuition, kindness, compassion, understanding and other human traits, because the trouble with rules is that they're not exactly human.

I'm not saying Ian did the wrong thing. I'm not privy to everything that went on. Maybe none of us are, except for Ian. But it strikes me that NEM, perhaps because of his own failings, is a man who's been beaten down by life. It doesn't please me to see him getting kicked again--even if by some measures, he deserves it.

Yes, people suffered from having NEM here. He was often a negative influence and he hurt people from time to time, perhaps intentionally. But I put myself in his shoes for a moment and try to imagine, knowing how important Patsfans is to him, how profoundly the banning must hurt him.

NEM has made enemies here, and there's nothing admirable about that. Nonetheless, I feel more sympathetic toward him than to those he has mistreated, perhaps because I think they can take it and he can't.

I guess we just disagree then. I have 2 perspectives on this:

1) This was an habitual breaking of the rules. They were pointed out to him numerous times. His violating of them was pointed out to him numerous times. He agreed to follow them numerous times. He did not. I have zero sympathy for someone who does whatever they want whenever they want, and then cannot accept the circumstances. I believe that if this forum is 'so important to him' then he should have complied with the rules, at least at the point where he was very well aware what the consequences were. Personally, i think what was important to NEM was having a forum to act however he felt like acting, often at the expense of others. When that was no longer an option, he acted as someone who the forum no longer was important to would, by continuing inapproriate behavior and getting the consequence he knew would result.
2) If I assume NEM did all of this without a malicious bone in his body, and its 'just the way he is, he can't help himself' then his actions would have been repeated over and over, and a ban would be the only way to eliminate those inappropirate actions.

I don't begin to know which of the 2 are the truth, but in either case, the correct response was taken.

I simply do not get the idea of feeling sorry for someone who brought upon themsleves consequences that you wish they didnt have to bear, unless you feel sorry for him because he is incapable of behaving. NEM knew and agreed to the consequences, and made his own bed.

 

[Fixit]

Guys, I know I started this thread, and I know a lot of you don't understand and just think I'm a bleeding heart, and that's fine - and probably true. The thing has gone on long enough and I'm happy to have it die on the vine. I'm sure Ian will make a good decision, or stick with what he feels is ALREADY a good decision. I know he cares about NEM, too, and is doing the best job anyone could of dealing with a difficult situation.

Thanks for all your input. Sorry if it clogged the board up, but I think NEM is worth it.

In just the short time I've been here, I've witnessed NEM getting warned several times before finally being exiled to the political forum. Only a complete knucklehead wouldn't learn his lesson from that, and NEM didn't. All he had to do was lay low for a while, and I'm relatively certain Ian would have restored his full posting ability.

I'm on the record as being adamantly against banning him or anyone else, but come on. You can only have so many warnings before the hammer absolutely has to fall.

Ian didn't make a good decision. He didn't make a bad decision. He made the only possible decision based on the rules he set forth.

 

[Pat_Nasty]

My two cents are probably irrelevant to most, but I'll put them in anyway. Sorry.

I didn't like NEM. I had nothing personally against him, I just thought most of his posts were worthless. If he wasn't indulging in his agenda against certain players and coaches, he was making the same points over and over again, using the same four or five bits of football jargon he'd picked up in his many years as a Pats fan. This alone wouldn't be enough to make him even a below-average message board poster, IMO, but the problem is he was so damn inflammatory. He couldn't help it, it was just his nature.

Thus, whenever NEM was active on this board, it seemed as though every thread turned into the same pissing match, normally insightful posters stooped to his level, people payed more attention to the in-fighting than the actual football season, and the overall level of discourse on the board plumetted.

At some point, before the playoffs even began, I pretty much stopped posting here. While it was as much the fault of his combatants as it was NEM's, his presence made me not want to visit this board. Now, there's no reason why any of you should care whether I post here or not... it's just that I have to imagine I'm not alone in my feelings. I wonder how many potential posters PatsFans.com has lost because they came, they lurked, they witnessed a post overrun by infighting even during a playoff run, and never bothered to sign up.

Now, does this mean NEM *should* be banished? Probably not. I honestly have no intention of implying what is and isn't "right" in this situation. I'm not making any moral judgments, only aesthetic ones, and my aesthetic judgment is this:

This board is more pleasant w/out NEM, and I will visit it more often now that I know he is banned.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Guys, I know I started this thread, and I know a lot of you don't understand and just think I'm a bleeding heart, and that's fine - and probably true. The thing has gone on long enough and I'm happy to have it die on the vine. I'm sure Ian will make a good decision, or stick with what he feels is ALREADY a good decision. I know he cares about NEM, too, and is doing the best job anyone could of dealing with a difficult situation.

Thanks for all your input. Sorry if it clogged the board up, but I think NEM is worth it.

I am one of the people that had issues with NEM. But, what is being ignore here is Ian's original decission to block him from the football forum. It was the "hundreds of threats" that NEM made againts people.

I was on the recieveing end of a few of those and I didn't like it.But, I NEVER asked Ian to take any action againts him- NEVER. I had decided that I had had it, and I was going to leave here if I got got one more threat or veiled threat from him.

I suppose I could have ignored him and let him run wild and bully this board. I tried the ignore feature but he was the one poster that the ignore feature did not work.

He claimed that there was a posse taking orders from one poster. I take orders from no one except my wife. She does a pretty good job of it.

I never imagined that I would have such issues with someone on a friggin message board. And, I will agree that it became childish at times and I'm not proud of it. But over a period of time it became what it was.

The only person that is to blame for what happened to NEM is NEM, IMO. I think Ian bent over backwards not to take the action that he did. And to my knowledge he was NOT persuaded by anyone to do that.

I do wish NEM all the best in his personal life. I hope that he can get those issues turned around. That is what is important.

 

[Ring 6]

My understanding had been that his friend had logged in and that Ian had banned him, not because of NEM's having logged in under his name PREVIOUSLY, but because Ian believed it was a made-up name/story and that NEM was continuing to do so.

If I'm wrong, I'm sure Ian will tell me so, but I didn't think it was that big a deal for me to appeal to people's better angels and hope something could be worked out.

AJ, I appreciate the fine line you're attempting to walk between snarky/frustrated and "not calling you out." I really have tried to be honest and fair here. I have occasionally fallen victim to just getting sick of certain poster's bullying attitudes, and for that I'm regretful. But for the most part, I'm doing my best to be kind to someone who, whether or not he deserves it, really sort of NEEDS it. And the antipathy it has engendered in some people on this board simply blows my mind.

Anyway, thanks for promoting an alternate view with at least a little respect.

Perhaps NEM needs your kindness. The problem is that you are doing at the expense of questioning a decision by Ian that his hand was forced on.
You do know that NEM received numerous warnings right? You do know that he agreed to comply numerous times right?
If you feel sorry for him, because of what he brought on himself thats fine.
But your are conveying a position that NEM was treated unfairly, that Ian made an uniformed decision, and basically that NEM is right and Ian is wrong.
I feel nothing could be further from the truth.
If you want to post about feeling bad about NEM, I have no problem with that, but implying while doing that that he was wronged by Ian is just way off the mark to me.

 

[Amnorix]

I hope you all will read this with the respect I intend. I'm not looking for yet MORE flaming - kicking NEM while he's down is really unnecessary - and at this point for some of you it would be redundant. I hope you'll at least have some semblance of a heart.

Thanks for reading.

I've had my disputes with NEM more on other boards than this one, but let me say one simple thing -- again -- this is not the first time, and probably not the last, that he is banned from a Pats website. That alone undermines your argument that he is misunderstood, or that some kind of unusual circumstance has arisen in this case.

He always gets many warnings. Moderators always feel bad about what is going on. He always ignores the warnings. Moderators are always stuck having to give him the boot. He always then sneaks back in under a different cover.

It's been 5+ years now that we've seen this across Pats forums. Ultimately, the routine has gotten extremely old. That he is smart, a passionate Pats fan, and could add value if he wanted is without question. That he is ascerbic, irritating, obsessive and highly annoying is also, unfortunately, without question. Ultimately, the latter traits overcome the former, and eventually he gets shown the door.

It is regrettable, but it's also inevitable.

 

[bostonbuzz]

So much wasted time and energy people, posting all this drivel, regarding the now infamous former member NEM. Nothing personal but this NEM was cut way more slack by Ian than he deserved from what I've read. Now he's gone! Bu-bye! There are no excuses for getting yourself banned. If you screw it up because of a mental condition, the pressures in life, or whatever reason and it reflects negatively on these forums, offends the visitors, and breaks the rules...you should go.
We ALL have issues in life to deal with don't we? The overwhelming majority of posters here have no problem leaving the crappy attitudes, personal problems, and BS home when posting their opinions. Stick to the rules or be gone. Simple concept really. These forums are a recreational diversion and should be a pleasure to visit not filled with no win discussions about posters pushing the limits and getting banned by the administrators. Now if they could somehow get ANS in the ground...and off the evening news...

I feel better...

 

[PatsFanSince74]

this would be an interesting case for anyone who is studying the dynamics of internet relationships. as i said elsewhere out here, as a relative newcomer I never got into NEM's crosshairs and so have no personal beef with him. i did find, however, that I would generally stop reading threads that he was dominating or in which he was driving the dialogue in, to be polite, contentious directions (on some days, that could be a lot of threads as he had over 10,000 posts). so,yes, in some ways i can say that he was having an impact on my own enjoyment of this forum, but i chose to deal with that situation by ignoring what annoyed me.

NEM seemed to create situations that put him at the center of a lot of attention (witness this thread) and, to a layman, he also seemed to be using the forum as a place to work out a whole bunch of stuff that I don't pretend to understand. In the end Ian made a decision that reflected what he thought was the consensus of those who were impacted. i really can't fault him for this and i hope that we can all learn from the whole affair.

 

[spacecrime]

Thanks for reading.

You're not welcome.

Is there any chance in the world you can get over the fact that this is not your website? That the owner makes the rules, not you, and that you are being an incredibly rude guest to keep yapping about this?

No?

Then can you at least start these stupid threads in the political forum or anyplace other the forums fset aside for actually discussing the Patriots?

And can someone please lock this thread and any other thread in this forum or the draft forum that drags this dead horse out of its grave to beat it again?

Thanks.

 

[Digger44]

You're not welcome.

Is there any chance in the world you can get over the fact that this is not your website? That the owner makes the rules, not you, and that you are being an incredibly rude guest to keep yapping about this?

No?

Then can you at least start these stupid threads in the political forum or anyplace other the forums fset aside for actually discussing the Patriots?

And can someone please lock this thread and any other thread in this forum or the draft forum that drags this dead horse out of its grave to beat it again?

Thanks.

I always suspected you of being on of those low down horny toad guys that formed a posse and got NEM banned. Now we have firm proof. You better contact a lawyer because I hear the wrath of NEM is coming. Just as BOR who had to file bankruptcy because of it all.

 

[Brady to Brown]

My understanding had been that his friend had logged in and that Ian had banned him, not because of NEM's having logged in under his name PREVIOUSLY, but because Ian believed it was a made-up name/story and that NEM was continuing to do so.

If I'm wrong, I'm sure Ian will tell me so, but I didn't think it was that big a deal for me to appeal to people's better angels and hope something could be worked out.

AJ, I appreciate the fine line you're attempting to walk between snarky/frustrated and "not calling you out." I really have tried to be honest and fair here. I have occasionally fallen victim to just getting sick of certain poster's bullying attitudes, and for that I'm regretful. But for the most part, I'm doing my best to be kind to someone who, whether or not he deserves it, really sort of NEEDS it. And the antipathy it has engendered in some people on this board simply blows my mind.

Anyway, thanks for promoting an alternate view with at least a little respect.

There are several bully's on this site that make "big bad NEM" look like a ***** cat.

 

[thesmee1]

You're not welcome.

Is there any chance in the world you can get over the fact that this is not your website? That the owner makes the rules, not you, and that you are being an incredibly rude guest to keep yapping about this?

No?

Then can you at least start these stupid threads in the political forum or anyplace other the forums fset aside for actually discussing the Patriots?

And can someone please lock this thread and any other thread in this forum or the draft forum that drags this dead horse out of its grave to beat it again?

Thanks.

The more you keep repeating it's name, the more chance it has to return. It looks for attention. Starve it and it goes away. Don't feed it.

 

[mb6592]

My understanding had been that his friend had logged in and that Ian had banned him, not because of NEM's having logged in under his name PREVIOUSLY, but because Ian believed it was a made-up name/story and that NEM was continuing to do so.

If I'm wrong, I'm sure Ian will tell me so, but I didn't think it was that big a deal for me to appeal to people's better angels and hope something could be worked out.

AJ, I appreciate the fine line you're attempting to walk between snarky/frustrated and "not calling you out." I really have tried to be honest and fair here. I have occasionally fallen victim to just getting sick of certain poster's bullying attitudes, and for that I'm regretful. But for the most part, I'm doing my best to be kind to someone who, whether or not he deserves it, really sort of NEEDS it. And the antipathy it has engendered in some people on this board simply blows my mind.

Anyway, thanks for promoting an alternate view with at least a little respect.

NEM's response to being told not to post on the football forum is to create a "friend" who comes to his house to post under a different name? And you defend this child? Let's say he has a stoolie neighbor that will confirm this ridiculous story, should IAN be forced to become a cop and verify it? How is IAN suppose to moderate if anyone can claim my wife, son, plumber used my computer so I'm not responsible? Have IAN prove that it’s not true? This latest act by NEM should ease our consciences so we can celebrate the fact that we no longer have to suffer this fool.

 

[jczxohn1]

I understand some of you have a huge problem with NEM, and that there are times when we all bring things on ourselves. I really do get that. But the crap that was pulled here recently, while it may have been exacerbated by NEM himself, was unfair to him - and disingenuous of several posters on this forum.

Ian has done what he feels he has to do, and I can respect that. But I do feel he is working - through no fault of his own - with an unbalanced and limited view of what ACTUALLY transpired. However strange it may seem, this forum means the world to NEM. I, for one, can put up with occasional hysterics or controversy. Those of you have lied to Ian about what exactly was going on with NEM should be ashamed of yourselves.

For the record, NEM did not try to log on under a different name. NEM stuck to the rule that Ian set - he stayed exclusively in the political forum. His next-door-neighbor logged in from his computer, set up his own account and was looking/posting in the Patsfans Forum. This is a friend of NEM's I have been hearing about for YEARS now. This is a person I e-mailed with a few years back when he, too, was ill. It is certainly understandable that Ian would suspect that it was NEM, given the same IP address, but it was in fact a misunderstanding.

What's being done to NEM can be attributed to a lot of people, not the least of whom is NEM himself. But I can't get over how many people have taken this to such a ridiculous extreme. This is a good man in tough circumstances, who deserves far better than he's gotten. Should he keep his temper in better check? Sure. Will he? I have no doubt. Is it that big a deal to give him another chance - even though he has had chances in the past? I honestly don't think it is.

People can't handle a guy getting riled up and giving back as good as he gets? Why? I think, with everything the guy's dealing with, that some sort of double secret-probation is warranted. If Ian feels he simply CAN'T, I think that's obviously his call - all of us, NEM included I expect, respect and appreciate all that Ian does here. But I just think sometimes you have to cut a guy another break - even if it's not something you feel you "should" do, it is on some level the RIGHT thing to do.

I hope you all will read this with the respect I intend. I'm not looking for yet MORE flaming - kicking NEM while he's down is really unnecessary - and at this point for some of you it would be redundant. I hope you'll at least have some semblance of a heart.

Thanks for reading.

Let me get this straight, you want only pro-NEM comments on this thread and no negatives, is that right? I had NEM on 'ignore" for the last 4 mo., and it did help but the function does not eliminate posts which have embedded quotes so often threads which were hi-jacked mantained their ability to morph into NEM-related diatribes. A casual accounting revealed that some contained 30% or more posts by Himself. FWIW, I'm happy with the way things are. I have no angst about NEM rejoining the site at some point in the future, but would appreciate one season off. It might just do NEM some good, too.

 

[patsox23]

Let me get this straight, you want only pro-NEM comments on this thread and no negatives, is that right?

Good Lord. That is not at all what I've said or suggested. In fact, a couple pages back, I said my piece and suggested that this thread die on the vine. I appreciate all respectfully submitted perspectives, and said so throughout. If you guys want to continue this now Godforsaken thread, go right ahead, but I humbly submit, one last time, perhaps it's best to let this die now.

 

[shmessy]

Old people in retirement communities do. And that's a guy I have corresponded with in the past, IM-ing FROM NEM's AOLIM address - so while I understand it sounds ridiculous to you, it's not at all surprising to me.

Unbelievable.

Let's see:

NEM was banned after COUNTLESS warnings from Ian over the past few years.

NEM had previously been banned from every other Patriot fan site forum, while Ian was the lone, unbelievably patient Good Samaritan who hung in there for him.

Ian, EVEN AT THE END OF HIS ROPE doesn't COMPLETELY ban NEM from the site, but stipulates he can only post now in the Politics Forum.

Then, LO AND BEHOLD "Daniel McJosh" shows up out of the blue, saying he is "NEM'S neighbor" and posts long diatribes using THE EXACT SAME PHRASEOLOGY- let me repeat that - THE EXACT SAME PHRASEOLOGY, for which NEM was notorious. It comes out that the IP Address is the same, (but of course, he's just NEM's "neighbor" using NEM's computer while the little angel is merely sitting in a corner knitting a sweater for some homeless children).

So the "next door neighbor" who had never previously logged in here, just so happens to show up after NEM is banned and posts in the very same English style of NEM from his very same computer and takes on the very same sore subjects as his neighbor.

Seriously, Patsox23, can I sell you some fabulous ocean-front property off the coast of Iowa?

 

[jczxohn1]

Let me first say that I haven't read any other posts, but if you don't want to hear it, don't open the door. "Can't we all just get along" won't cut it when the protagonist has made his bones by being polarizing.