Front Seven Weak Link

[mgteich]

OUR CURRENT 15 FRONT SEVEN PLAYERS AND BACKUPS
starters: Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Vrabel, Mayo, Guyton, Thomas
situational players: Green, Colvin, Woods, Bruschi
backups: Smith, Adams, Crable, Redd/Robertson/Craig
============================================
Where is the weak link? I would submit that their isn't one, except for Adams who is our current replacement for Wright. Guyton is learning, but that's fine.
=============================================
This is where we are. There is certainly room for upgrades, but this is not a bad start. This is a very strong front seven. And I understand that some poster think that anyone who is 30 over over should be cut, or at best be an inactive backup playing for minimum wages. Thankfully belichick disagrees with this approach.

I would do what we need to in order to re-sign Wright (to replace Adams) and to extend who we can.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

We have struggled with our pass rush since Willie left. I would say Vrabel is the weakest link, but we don't necessarily have a weak link.

 

[signbabybrady]

If our front seven returns as is next year I think we are fine. I think the unit could use a better pass rusher (whether that be a situational dlinemen or OLB) and a better back up for the Nose.

I really think other than the secodary there is no real need for this team....thats no to say various positions couldn't be upgraded but if they weren't it wont kill us.

 

[DarrylS]

This is going to be unpopular, but right now Mayo and Guyton are pretty good and will be excellent.. but both seemed to have difficulty in pass coverage, particularly against some of the TE's going over the middle.

Mayo will be an all pro, Guyton will be very good.. but right now there is a terrific learning curve going on.

Do not see Colvin here next year.. he often looked lost out there.

 

[billdog3484]

This is going to be unpopular, but right now Mayo and Guyton are pretty good and will be excellent.. but both seemed to have difficulty in pass coverage, particularly against some of the TE's going over the middle.

it may be unpopular but its definitely true. i dont think anyone can disagree with the statement you made

 

[PatsFan2]

OUR CURRENT 15 FRONT SEVEN PLAYERS AND BACKUPS
starters: Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Vrabel, Mayo, Guyton, Thomas
situational players: Green, Colvin, Woods, Bruschi
backups: Smith, Adams, Crable, Redd/Robertson/Craig
============================================
Where is the weak link? I would submit that their isn't one, except for Adams who is our current replacement for Wright. Guyton is learning, but that's fine.
=============================================
This is where we are. There is certainly room for upgrades, but this is not a bad start. This is a very strong front seven. And I understand that some poster think that anyone who is 30 over over should be cut, or at best be an inactive backup playing for minimum wages. Thankfully belichick disagrees with this approach.

I would do what we need to in order to re-sign Wright (to replace Adams) and to extend who we can.

I know that many would dissagree that your buddy Mike Vrabel based on his play last year was a Weakest Link.

 

[MetalBleachers]

The lack of a pass rush bothers me, esp. because it was apparent even with AD and a healthy Seymour out there. Should they draft a pass-rushing OLB, or bulk up the DBs and hope the coverage gives the front 7 more time?

Chicken or egg?

 

[patsfaninpa]

I would argue ILB starter opposite Mayo is a weak link. Baltimore has B.Scott
there. Pitt has L.Timmons a former 1st rounder. Bruschi was a warrior. But, we
have to move on. We did it with Willie,Ty, Lawyer, etc. Same with Bruschi and
Vrabel. We need a pass-rush out of that position. If Mike can't do it any more.
That position requires it. He didn't get to the qb in 08. What makes anyone think
he can in 09?

I love what our corps of vets did for this franchise. And, if you want to keep
them around as backups fine. But, that will hurt your special teams. We need to
thank them, put them in Pats Hall of Fame and move on. I don't get the Pierre
Woods love. Nice special teamer. Hardly a play-marker. Occasional pass-rusher
off bench a la Banta-Cain. Not a starter on a team with Super Bowl aspirations.
I still can't get over that fumble he didn't recover in Super Bowl against Giants.
Ball dropped at this feet. Still couldn't come up with it.

 

[Rob0729]

We have struggled with our pass rush since Willie left. I would say Vrabel is the weakest link, but we don't necessarily have a weak link.

In fairness, the Pats were second in the league in sacks in 2007 with 47 with Vrabel being the first Patriot since McGinest in the 90s to have a double digit sack total. They were 5th in 2006 with 44. Let's not exggerate the lack of pass rush.

 

[mayoclinic]

I would agree it's a fairly strong group, but with plenty of room for improvement. Right now Vrabel and Guyton are the weakest links among the starters - one slowing down, the other still raw and unproven. I think we lack for depth, speed, and pass rushers. Need to bring Wright back or find an equivalent replacement. Need a true NT backup for Vince. Need DE depth or extension plan to cover Seymour/Green/Wright all FAs by end of 2009.

The Giants had a strong DL with Stahan and Osi but that didn't stop them from drafting Tuck and Kiwi. It seemed to work out well for them. I would like to see us similarly stockpile talent up front, especially in the LBs who are the key to BB's defense.

 

[fester]

In fairness, the Pats were second in the league in sacks in 2007 with 47 with Vrabel being the first Patriot since McGinest in the 90s to have a double digit sack total. They were 5th in 2006 with 44. Let's not exggerate the lack of pass rush.

Yeah, so what has the defense done lately :->

I think the position of OLB pass rusher was the weakest link this year. I think Vrabel if he moves inside full time in either 2009 or 2010 as the veteran multi-purpose thumper will have more value than staying on the outside. Hopefully the Pats either draft the next Lamar Woodley or sign Suggs or another young vet OLB who can both set the edge and rush the passer.

 

[PatsSox363804]

In fairness, the Pats were second in the league in sacks in 2007 with 47 with Vrabel being the first Patriot since McGinest in the 90s to have a double digit sack total. They were 5th in 2006 with 44. Let's not exggerate the lack of pass rush.

After Colvin went down last year the pass rush plummeted. With a healthy Colvin there's no way we lose that Superbowl.

 

[BritPat]

We have struggled with our pass rush since Willie left. I would say Vrabel is the weakest link, but we don't necessarily have a weak link.

Not true. We had one of our highest ever sack totals in 07 with Vrabel and Colvin on the outside.

I do think it's regressed massively this season though, and it needs sorting one way or another.

I'd say Pass Rush, specifically ROLB (if AD stays at LOLB next year), SILB, then a back up NT. I think Wright and Green serve as very good DE back ups.

 

[Rob0729]

Yeah, so what has the defense done lately :->

I think the position of OLB pass rusher was the weakest link this year. I think Vrabel if he moves inside full time in either 2009 or 2010 as the veteran multi-purpose thumper will have more value than staying on the outside. Hopefully the Pats either draft the next Lamar Woodley or sign Suggs or another young vet OLB who can both set the edge and rush the passer.

I wasn't responding to someone saying that there was no pass rush this year. I was responding to a post that said that the pass rush has been a problem since McGinest left.

I don't know if Vrabel was specifically the problem this past season. I don't think the Pats had a lot of pressure up the middle either. I think it was a breakdown in a lot of places.

 

[BritPat]

After Colvin went down last year the pass rush plummeted. With a healthy Colvin there's no way we lose that Superbowl.

We had 3 sacks in the SB, but it wasn't that which beat us, it was our lack of protection for #12 and Asante not holding on to that INT.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

I would agree it's a fairly strong group, but with plenty of room for improvement. Right now Vrabel and Guyton are the weakest links among the starters - one slowing down, the other still raw and unproven. I think we lack for depth, speed, and pass rushers. Need to bring Wright back or find an equivalent replacement. Need a true NT backup for Vince. Need DE depth or extension plan to cover Seymour/Green/Wright all FAs by end of 2009.

The Giants had a strong DL with Stahan and Osi but that didn't stop them from drafting Tuck and Kiwi. It seemed to work out well for them. I would like to see us similarly stockpile talent up front, especially in the LBs who are the key to BB's defense.

:agree: especially about DEPTH being a major weakness. Guyton's still a work in progress, Vrabes is feeling his football years,but overall we look good. It's the lack of depth at some of these positions which makes me uncomfortable. Good post

 

[BradyManny]

I'm not sold on Guyton in the base 3-4. He looks promising in coverage, but I'm not sure about him against the run at this point. He showed promise at that as well, but as the year went on, struggled a bit. I'm also not sure about Bruschi there. As I said in the draft forum, I want a bigger SILB.

 

[PatsSox363804]

We had 3 sacks in the SB, but it wasn't that which beat us, it was our lack of protection for #12 and Asante not holding on to that INT.

That and the playcalling. I still don't know why we went for it on 4th and 12 or why we threw deep four times at the end instead of trying to get into field goal range like we did in every other superbowl.

 

[signbabybrady]

:agree: especially about DEPTH being a major weakness. Guyton's still a work in progress, Vrabes is feeling his football years,but overall we look good. It's the lack of depth at some of these positions which makes me uncomfortable. Good post

I think we can always use extra help as far as depth is concerned but don't forget that some of the depth is built in flexibility. Both Vrabel and Thomas can play inside too.

 

[mgteich]

I would expect a very short plan:
1) Secure a young 4th ILB who would compete with Guyton for time this year and next.
2) Re-sign Wright and/or find a backup NT to train, expecially if Wilfork isn't extended.

We may need to carry a 7th DL this year, who would be a backup developmental NT.