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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by marcus, Dec 23, 2006.

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  1. marcus

    marcus On the Game Day Roster

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    Going into December with 8 million dollars in cap space, below average receivers and a 60 million dollar quarterback is dumb...


    I am sure that even BB/SP would admit that they did not play their hand well this year

    Before everyone on this board uses the old knee jerk reflex of denial...ask yourself if there is any truth to this statement
     
  2. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa In the Starting Line-Up

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    For the last time. D.Branch had a signed contract with the New England Patriots for the 2006 season. Had he lived up to his commitment this team didn't need a wr this year. When entering the draft/free agency season, a GM/Coach's don't assume a player will hold out. They look to fill the other holes. That's why we drafted CJ and signed Caldwell. For the 2/3 slots.
    Direct your criticism at Deion. He chose not to play here. I'm pissed at him not our front office.
     
  3. bradmahn

    bradmahn In the Starting Line-Up

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    "I am sure that even BB/SP would admit that they did not play their hand well this year."

    I don't agree with this statement at all.

    Bill and Scott Pioli did what they did because of several reasons, and I am sure that they were fairly confident that they would be able to sign Deion Branch. If they attempted to sign one of the big name receivers that were available last offseason (overpaying for their services), they would have created an even bigger dilemma when it came time to negotiating with Deion, who would feel as if he deserves more money than the recently acquired player.

    If the Pats had eventually traded for Javon Walker (which they were pretty serious about, Walker just never boarded his plane to Boston) they also would have had the dilemma of restructuring his deal. Walker had also pulled the same Branch BS last season. After going to the Pro Bowl in '04, Walker wanted "his," and held out of training camp to show the Packers who had the leverage. They didn't budge (good move) and he eventually came back (and got hurt). He wanted big time money, and, while I don't know the contract the Broncos gave him, I can bet it was more than the Pats would have given (see also having to eventually pay Deion).

    The Pats signed Caldwell to replace Givens, and he has done so (production wise), but they also had every intention of playing this season with Branch (who forced himself out of town). They drafted a "stud" WR in the second round, who unfortunately got injured. Keep in mind that many prognosticators felt Jackson was a steal and the best WR in the draft, a true first round talent.

    After the realization that the Pats were not going to have Branch for a good deal of the season they attempted to sign/trade for another receiver, but how many receivers were out there? Donte Stallworth would have commanded a draft pick and a new contract if they expected to have him available for more than just this year.

    Looking back on the situation now and saying "they could have had this guy" or "they should have tried harder for this guy" is hogwash and a classic case of hindsight being 20/20. In doing so you also fail to realize the situation the team was in at the time those players were available. If Deion doesn't pull his BS or if Chad Jackson doesn't get injured this season is entirely different. The Patriots prepared for this season's WR situation in many ways, and unfortunately they were not lucky enough for those ways to pan out, but to say that they didn't do anything because "they have six million dollars in unused cap space" is naive and a stupid attempt to criticize them now for stuff that was out of their control or a reasonable assumption then (like that Deion was going to play this season).
     
  4. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    THAt is the best statement I have heard on this u ARE SO SO correct ask DB baby...a team can not assume every player is a phony 2 year old whiner...and who says that they are 8 mill under??? I think THAT is speculation with the Koppen deal done and..other things
    BUT also besides money for Branch they were also pusueing Law..so without those ..they obviously HAD money...and when does this cap run out?? I believe that it foes beyond the season****Miguel..others please correct me if I am wrong*** They may use this space after the season for extensions yes no??
     
  5. richpats

    richpats Banned

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    The only other alternative would have been to let Branch run his holdout until Week 10 and then show up for the last 6 games + playoffs... I'm sure it would have done wonders for the locker room.

    In truth the only party that comes off looking 'dumb' is the Seattle Seahawks. They gave up a 1st-rounder and a mega-contract for essentially a #2 receiver (in their system) whose production is on par with Joe Jurevicius' of 2005 - who happened to sign a deal worth half as much with Cleveland.
     
  6. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    How does Branch look..besides rich, lazy, greedy and like a whiner??? I agree seatt;e looks dumb..
     
  7. sarge

    sarge Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I'm wondering what it's going to be like when Darrel Jackson is ready to sign his next contract.

    Stat wise, he is clearly above Branch.

    I would be curios to see how Branch would do without Jackson lined up on the other side. Part of me thinks Jackson is drawing the double coverage helping Branch's numbers. but the other argument would be he is taking receptions from Branch.

    Regardless, Branch is paid like he is one of the best receivers in the league when in reality, he is not even the best receiver on his own team!

    So I am real curious to see what happens with Jackson after this season.
     
  8. hodgey

    hodgey Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    The original post is dead on. Add to that the fact we are getting almost no production from our draft class. I posted about a year ago how I felt our window to win was now, and would continue to shrink. I think they blew an opportunity at another superbowl run.

    Now to repond to the above post. Denver was in the exact same position as we were. They choose to protect themselves and sign J. Walker. We could have done that as well. Would we be a better team with a Walker or Stallworth for Brady to throw to? The front office should have anticipated this possibility and acted. We better just hope our FA's are not still as coveted as in prior years or our window will shrink even further.
     
  9. richpats

    richpats Banned

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    We couldn't have worked out a deal with Walker because Branch was still a Pat.

    The WR situation is in its worst-case scenario, but look at Washington, lots of talent at WR....and 5-9.
     
  10. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Patriots have another week to find ways to use that money - and it's closer to $6M by all reports - by either extending other players who are scheduled to become FA or by adding LTBE incentives into some reworked deals. That said, this franchise demands accountability from top to bottom and when they evaluate their own performance at the end of the season I don't doubt they will conclude that they did not play their hand all that well this off season. They underestimated their #1 WR's resolve regarding his contract status while likely overestimating their ability to replace production within the unit (Gabriel).

    A couple of things to keep in mind are they did actually try to pre-emptively replace him with Mason in 2005 but were rebuffed. They also made an effort to re-sign Givens when it appeared the Houston offer would be his market, but it was a case of too little too late. Perhaps that offer at the end of the 2005 regular season would have retained him, but they chose not to make it then apparently to avoid potentially driving the price up on Branch. And while we all assume Branch was overpaid by Seattle, the troubling thing to remember is the reports that the Patriots were willing to give him the same deal just prior to pulling the trigger on the trade with the caveat that he bring a new agent to the table. We may never know the whole story there unless Brady decides to address it in his post career autobiography.

    They also attempted to upgrade the secondary but both corners they persued also rebuffed them, Townsend to remain with the team he won his ring with and Law who money aside it seems was intent on proving he was in no way a product of a system. Like the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. However, you need to do a better job of deciphering when you are merely being strung along and when you are truly in the hunt.

    If we win it all this year it will all become a moot point. If we don't then it is reasonable to discuss why we didn't, as I am sure they will be doing in the bowels of Gillette long into the winter.
     
  11. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's beside the point though. As Bill would say, it's not how a players performs somewhere else that matters - it's how he would perform in this system. In this system Branch was a #1. That is why so many of the pundits were dumbfounded - as the majority of them contended Branch was worth more to this team than he would be to any other (because of his fit in the system and rapore with a cerebal QB - something we are learning is not that easy to develop).
     
  12. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There is another choice, negotiate with him and throw out the '06 year of the contract, which would have gone against the philosophy of the club and gotten squarely up the butt of the other 52 guys in the locker room..btw, anyone check how incredibly well that Deion is doing in Seattle?? Seattle would have been better off spending their money on Hutchinson, than spending that much cash on their #3 receiver.

    This horse has been beaten to death at least 29 times on this board.
     
  13. belichickaholic

    belichickaholic On the Game Day Roster

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    If they don't have the horses, how did they manage to get to 10-4 this year?
    They'll probably finish 12-4, but I guess that's not good enough for you.

    10-4, jeez louise, get a grip!! Anything can happen in the playoffs.:rolleyes:
     
  14. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    We need one receiver to step up to be solid at every position.

    The Colts need to find a whole defense by the playoffs.

    Given theres a salary cap, I'll take our situation.

    Playoff bound for the 5th time in 6 years!
     
  15. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Are you saying the 8-7 Seahawks made a smarter deal?
     
  16. sarge

    sarge Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Looking at the stats on NFL.com, it shows Branch as the second most productive receiver, not third.

    Am I missing something?
     
  17. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Plus they have Burleson at 49 milllion for 7 years and they only use him on special teams.

    We really need to emulate them.:rolleyes:
     
  18. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Evidence? We continue to add more young talented players and have double picks in most rounds including #1.

    Is our quarterback ready to retire?

    You guys just like windows, cause you're always looking to jump out one at the first sign of trouble.
     
  19. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Mo..is it only a week OR does it go into the new year??? I always have thought that it was more in Feb..and that many do not understand that...I of course stand corrected if wrong...I also afree that they tried to sign a few and were rebuffed n that..BUT many miss those actions. Also many forget so easily the CBA extension and how that affected the Patriots and their thinking..Do you not think they would have played their gand differenty if the CBA hadn't been up and an issue in March?? I think it would have been different..
     
  20. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Absolutely correct but they should have done something when Branch
    held out early in the year. If they just said out he won't really
    hold out of the season ... that was wrong thinking. But hind sight is a nice
    thing. Deion was such a nice guy .. who thought he would be the traitor he
    is.
    One problem was ... they really couldn't committ to another WR
    as long as Brach was a possibility ... unless they just decided to let him go.
    Branch really put this team in a big bind. He's on my doo doo list.
     
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