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Freeney, Taylor vs Seymour.

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PATSNUTme, Jul 6, 2006.

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  1. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Pro Football Weekly's NFL Preview magizene ranks players overall and by postion.

    As far a DE's are concerned they rank Freeney #10, Taylor #11 and Seymour #13.

    As to the just DE's rankings Freeney #1 , Taylor #2, and Seymour #3.

    I know that I am biased but I would rank Seymour #1, Taylor #2, and maybe Freeney #3. IMO, Feeney is just a pass rushing specialist. He can be run at effectively.

    Seymour is the best all around DL in the NFL. If we ran the same type of D that the Colts ran, he would have high sack #'s and would be able to be a run stopper.

    So to me, Seymour should be ranked #1 hands down.
     
  2. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Seymour blew it by re-signing with the Pats. Because he is a Pat, he just isn't that good. If he had only not signed the contract, he'd be touted as the best DL in the league and the one player the Pats must sign. But no, he signed the contract. Now people think higher of Willie than Richard. It isn't like we can keep winning \because we kept Seymour. No, we will start losing because we lost McGinnest.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2005
  3. Digger44

    Digger44 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    bingo bingo bingo. Guys get rated so high simply based upon their limelight as a sackmaster. There is more to being an effective, balanced DE than a sackmaster. There is no doubt that Freeney does an incredible job as a pass rusher, but he can be shut down 1on1. In fact i believe a healthy Matt Light can shut down Freeney by himself. Who is going to win a Seymour 1on1? What RB is running at Seymour? They must either run wide or go to the "weak" side with Warren, and that isnt all that weak. Seymour causes nightmares because he must have two bodies on him. If he draws two bodies, then Vince in the middle gives big problems as well.
     
  4. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi In the Starting Line-Up

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    some good points, but let's give some credit to coaching here as well--if Dungy had a Seymour, there is no way he'd plug him into a Freeney role. I respect Dungy (as a defensive specialist) enough to think that he'd build a scheme around him.

    that said, the Colts are the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked...they SUCK...
     
  5. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    let it go. people have opinions. why is Seymour the best? Some will agree..some will not. We cant fight the people who do this. We are all somewhat homers for every Patriots position but so are others. Its likely that because Seymour missed time...that he wasnt rated higher. If we all know how dominant Seymour is..why does it matter what others think? Hes dominating them. A ranked opinion on paper shows nothing..they can hate us..they can say whatever. I wont bother getting angry nor will i frown a little bit because what others say. All 3 teams play different Ds..we run a 3-4...Colts use speed on the field and Taylor has been a tremendous vet. Theres many reasons to support each of them but stats will usually give the nod to someone else because Patriots are not about stats at all besides the W's we get and the SBs we have won.

    how many sacks? doesnt matter
    how many tacles? does not matter

    Patriots will never lead stats such as sacks or have the best WR by stats. We play 3-4..DE is pressuring and playing run..we spread ball around offensivly. we blitz and have character guys.
     
  6. Aqua4Ever04

    Aqua4Ever04 Banned

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    I think this is a proper assesment but I would say Taylor is the best of the 3. They are all GREAT players and I would love having any of them on my team. Luckily I do get one on the Fins. :)
     
  7. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Exactly. If he went to somewhere like Atlanta, he would be a superstar. Or if he went to somewhere where they didn't play him in the trenches, he would likely chase Strahan's single season sack record. The players recognize that because of what Sey does (taking on the double teams, allowing the OLB's to rush), he will not be the darling of the media, but they respect him hence the reason he starts Probowls every year.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2005
  8. Brady-To-Branch

    Brady-To-Branch Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    The problem with this comparison is that Seymour is a 3-4 DE. If I were building a 3-4 defense with current players, I would have Seymour as my #1 DE and Freeney as my #1 OLB. As for Taylor, he dosen't belong in this conversation.


    I doubt that very much. Look, I hate Indy too, but against Freeney, the Pats will have a TE helping out Light most of the time, if not always.
     
  9. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    True.

    They don't play the same position. Seymour's probably 310-315 now. How can you compare him to either of those guys.

    Taylor looks anorexic next to Sey and Freeney would be a linebacker in our system.
     
  10. Alk

    Alk In the Starting Line-Up

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    It's really hard to argue either way. The only difference is systems and the flip of a coin. While Seymour is a great all around player, Taylor and Freeney excel in pass rushing which leads to big plays that the average person is more likely to take notice of.
     
  11. shakadave

    shakadave In the Starting Line-Up

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    Two years ago this month, Sporting News came out with their annual Pro Scouting Guide that had Seymour as the #2 PLAYER (not just DE) in the NFL.
     
  12. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The problem is that this rating was done by people who should know football.

    Hell, Taylor played OLB most of last year.

    People who know football should look at the total game not just pass rushing. If they had a category ranking the best pass rushers, then Seymour probably wouldn't be ranked very high.
     
  13. satz

    satz 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    In a team sport the effectiveness of a player cannot measure with the parameterics of just achievements.But that is what a layman would understand .
    Also, with 32 teams its hard to watch every player at every position and if you get picky on a few teams you will be a local analyst.

    I am sure one can break effectiveness of a player by defining zones and plotting patterns with various scenarios through out the game and making projection on his absense from other opponents with lesser talant to come up with some effectiveness ratio but i need a few hours on a super parallel processor box with a unlimited resources and mit brains lol.

    so stats are what they are !One cannot measure only by stats as i am sure emmit smith did not run the 40 fast , but was one hell of a RB , tom brady was a 199th pick and look what happened.

    Stats are only for fantasy foot ball and Not for the Real Game
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2006
  14. Welker83

    Welker83 On the Game Day Roster

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    Ok...just go with it for a second...

    1)First and Ten. The QB hands the ball off toa RB and he's stuffed at the line of Scrimmage for no gain By DE Richard Seymour... so now it's second and Ten.

    2) First and Ten QB takes the snap goes back to pass and is sacked by Jason Taylor for a 5 yard loss...now it's 2nd and 15...

    So tell me...which one was a bigger play? which one had the most impact?

    Now i am not by any means ragging on Seymour. Honestly he will always be underapreciated for what he does...and that is redirect the play and free up the LB's to make the tackle. But in our Fantasy driven big play NFL world a Sack is much more important than a run stuff...Especially cause you can always just run to the other side... So thats why they ranked freeney and taylor above seymour...
     
  15. Welker83

    Welker83 On the Game Day Roster

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    Actually he played OE or outside end...and he played a lot less of a LB role after he tore his Plantar facitius...
     
  16. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The comparison is silly they all play in different systems. Taylor use to play in a 4-3 like Freeney, I would take Taylor every time. He is one opponent I wish had been a Patriot.
     
  17. Michigan Dave

    Michigan Dave Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I love watching Freeney spin himself out of the play about 30% of the time. Dude's incredible when he gets in and can rush, but his run D is average at best.
     
  18. mcdonut16

    mcdonut16 Practice Squad Player

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    Seymours ability is known most by those that know the most about football, the coaches and players. Seymour is the best in the league at tying up at least 2 blockers on every play, essentially creating a mismatch for the Patriots defense on most plays. His strength and technique make him unblockable 1 on 1, and many times he will win double teams. This is not sexy, but it makes the opposing offense account for him on every play, not just passing downs.

    In short Seymour is the best because he gives the opposing offenses more to account for on every single play than any other defensive player in the NFL. He cannot be blocked off the line, and he collapses a pocket which creates pressure from all sides (and sacks for everyone) instead of running around the pocket ala Freeney where he can create a sack for himself.

    In short, Seymours style plays to the strengths of team defense, instead of making individual plays.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2006
  19. Lloyd_Christmas

    Lloyd_Christmas I can delete my own crap! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That is a ridiculous analogy. Football is a situational game and every play in the series can affect later plays.

    For example, if on 1st and 10, the RB got 8 yards by blowing over Freeney or Taylor, then those guys wouldn't have gotten the sack for a 5 yard loss when it was 2nd and 2. The QB would have had plenty of short dump off routes.

    On the other hand, 2nd or 3rd and 10 (or worse) due to a stiff run defense puts players who can rush the passer in an excellent position to get a high impact sack for a loss.

    Furthermore, it could have been 3rd and 1 or a goal line stand... now who has the most impact?

    The point is, you can't just take one situation and presume that it is "case closed" on who is more valuable.
     
  20. Lloyd_Christmas

    Lloyd_Christmas I can delete my own crap! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I challenge anyone to go watch some tape of a colts game and do nothing but watch the DLine. Then spin more than ballerinas... the whole lot of them. Sometimes you have the distinct pleasure of seeing synchronized spinning... it is quite entertaining. I swear that the spin move is the only move these guys are taught. Like Michigan Dave said, they take themselves out of a good many plays by spinning away from the ball carrier.

    I think Freeney is one of the most overrated players in the league. He does have incredible speed for such a large man, but he is no Richard Seymour.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2005
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