Freeney injury status (merged)

[DW Toys]

Re: Is Freeney out for season?

Well, the NFL OFFICIALLY SAID "GOOD CALL" on the PI on Wayne, you gonna buy that??

Ah........ Cousin He Ban Me!
Look I have some points to agree with you on. Love Freeney's pressure. He's one of the best in the business. He is a great fit for the Colts, but would not be a fit here. Different style D. He can be exploited on the run, but that is compensated by quicker LBs, so it still works for your Colts. It's how each defense is structured and the Colts are committed to that type of D. I think a bigger O-Line like the Cowboys or Pats has the tendency to wear out the smaller D.

I'd rather have a Jason Taylor who can play up or down. Wouldn't mind taking a shot with him (JT) for a year or two while he still has a little left. He fits BBs' versatility model. Even though Freeney is younger and maybe the more feared rusher, I'd take Taylor as a rotation guy. Third down with Seymour, Vrabel, Colvin, Thomas and Taylor, it would be impossible to block. Now throw in Warren and Green.

I think that the Colts are getting a media break on injuries that the Pats never got, nor asked for in 06. The Pats had a couple studs missing at the beginning of the year who are just starting to play into shape. I will give you this, that for that last three years, the Colts have some great WRs, but this year the Pats have caught up. Now when watching Manning, it's like watching Tom that last few years as he was "WR Challenged? I think Clark is a bigger loss than Marvin anyway.

Back to Freeny. He is a big loss for you......By the way, the Wayne PI was the biggest travesty call we have had this year(maybe worse than those three "corkers" in last years play-offs) and now you see how that feels. Rich Eisen was almost laughing when Peireria tried to spin that one and made himself loose credibility. He should not have touched it. BAN ME, I think that's why Pats fans are upset even though we won, because it's hard to play the Colts at home with Pollian watching the the Refs and undoubtedly every break goes the Colts way. The score was not indicative of what it could have been with on-the-level Refs. I don't even want to get back into last years' sham.

I think the Pats would rather play and win against any team that has all hands on deck so there is no excuse. Your second string kids on the DL can be exploited. Sanders is not playing like last year for whatever reason. He got beat many times. Peyton's gonna have to put up more numbers because Freeney is down.
DW Toys

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Is Freeney out for season?

Call the Colts and ask them what constitutes a pressure. I assume it's when the rusher forces the QB to move out of the pocket, to flee, to go mobile, to change the way he throws. Certainly, they have a baseline, something coerces them into tallying one up. Look those other guys up. Not sure if they have a lot of oressures to go with their sacks. 1.8+.4 is 2+ per game. Is there a Dlineman who averages 2 sacks a game? How many of them are there? Are you pissed because his contract ups the ante? Freeney has been better at stopping the run, granted, that delay draw still works, but I think he has improved this area of his game. In the end, he does what is asked of him. If the D-Coordinator says rush the passer, he rushes the passer.

First you post a madeup stat that is undefined. Then you ask ME to define it. Then you go on to define it yourself by saying to equal what Freeney has in this made up stat, other DLs would need to match in it SACKS. Do you need a V8?
Here is the reality. Freeney is POOR at sacking the QB over the last 1 1/2 years. To create a stat, THAT CANNOT BE COMPARED TO OTHER PLAYERS, and then assume he has more of those than anyone else is akin to lying. Then to say that if Freeney get 1.8 of these made up stats to go with his measely 0.4 sacks, you think a player must have FIVE TIMES AS MANY sacks Freeney to make up for pressures, when that guy may have even more pressures????????????????????? It looks like you have grasped at that final straw indicating you know you are wrong.

As far as doing what the DC asks him, I completely agree. I would not expect Freeney to play well against the run when he is asked to rush the passer every play. However, the real issue here is that WITH THE BENEFIT OF NOT BEING ASKED TO PLAY THE RUN he can still only muster 9 sacks in 25 games.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Is Freeney out for season?

Well, the NFL OFFICIALLY SAID "GOOD CALL" on the PI on Wayne, you gonna buy that??

Well, thats what it goes down in history as.
Once the call was made it IS pass interference regardless of whether the call was correct or not.

Obviously you know this is a poor analogy.

Your 'stats' are the equivalent of me watching the Pats, counting up tackles myself, and saying that they are real #s even though the NFL counts them officially, and then adding a stat called 'Dominations'. Then I could watch the tape, and credit Richard Seymour with 145 Dominations, and use that to argue he is better than other players, because he had 145 dominations.

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Is Freeney out for season?

he can still only muster 9 sacks in 25 games.

Even worse, he tends to get sacks in bunches. 7 of his 11 sacks in the last 2 years (including playoffs) came in 3 games. In 23 of his last 29 games, he didn't register a "solo" sack (I hate the 1/2 sack statistic).

Freeney is a fine player but kind of a "one-trick" pony...and he doesn't do that one trick well enough to make him elite. Elite skills, but not elite production.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Is Freeney out for season?

Even worse, he tends to get sacks in bunches. 7 of his 11 sacks in the last 2 years (including playoffs) came in 3 games. In 23 of his last 29 games, he didn't register a "solo" sack (I hate the 1/2 sack statistic).

Freeney is a fine player but kind of a "one-trick" pony...and he doesn't do that one trick well enough to make him elite. Elite skills, but not elite production.

I dont even buy that he has elite skills. He is fast and mobile, and has a unique spin move. But after 25 games of it working at a mediocre level, I'd have to say OL have figured it out. Its kind of like a baseball pitcher with a unique pitch. Until its figured out, that is an elite skill. Once everyone learns how to hit it, its no longer an elite skill.
I'm surprised that so many people want to still call Freeney a good pass rusher when he hasn't produced since the end of 2005.

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Is Freeney out for season?

I dont even buy that he has elite skills. He is fast and mobile, and has a unique spin move. But after 25 games of it working at a mediocre level, I'd have to say OL have figured it out. Its kind of like a baseball pitcher with a unique pitch. Until its figured out, that is an elite skill. Once everyone learns how to hit it, its no longer an elite skill.
I'm surprised that so many people want to still call Freeney a good pass rusher when he hasn't produced since the end of 2005.

Better analogy is a hitter that can absolutely crush any fastball he sees. That is an elite skill set. Unfortunately, a pitcher can just throw off-speed stuff and make you an average hitter. Doesn't diminish your skills, just means your skill set is too specialized and can be gameplanned against.

I draw the distinction for two reasons:
1) You still have to gameplan against him, which may put you in a situation where you are not executing the way you would want. Maybe your pitcher can't throw an off-speed pitch for strikes.
2) Sometimes that gameplan allows others (Mathis) to be productive. You walk all the time and the guy batting behind you sees fastballs all day.

I'm not sure how you can honestly say Freeney doesn't have elite skills (speed, quickness, moves, finishing). Certainly those skills have not translated into much production over the last couple of years.

 

[Metaphors]

I know whatever I say doesn't count and I'll be called a troll, but Freeney is honestly double and triple teamed more than any other player I've ever seen. There were a couple of games earlier in the year where he only had single blocking 2 or 3 times the whole game.

The point about double teams is solid (though triple teaming him is moronic...he is 250 lbs), but that is kind of the point. Two blockers (or a chip block) is a small price to pay to neutralize the focal point of a defense. Still leaves plenty of blockers to handle the rest of the line without max-protecting.

This isn't a knock against Freeney. More of a knock against the defensive strategy. I continue to contend that running undersized defensive ends at 100 mph into 300 lb lineman on every play is a risky strategy. They will be gassed at about 40 plays and useless by 50 plays. You better get a lot of 3-and-outs or have a big lead in the 4th quarter. Or have solid depth at DE that you can use while your starters are sucking oxygen on the sidelines.

 

[He Ban Me]

Re: Is Freeney out for season?

Ah........ Cousin He Ban Me!
Look I have some points to agree with you on. Love Freeney's pressure. He's one of the best in the business. He is a great fit for the Colts, but would not be a fit here. Different style D. He can be exploited on the run, but that is compensated by quicker LBs, so it still works for your Colts. It's how each defense is structured and the Colts are committed to that type of D. I think a bigger O-Line like the Cowboys or Pats has the tendency to wear out the smaller D.

I'd rather have a Jason Taylor who can play up or down. Wouldn't mind taking a shot with him (JT) for a year or two while he still has a little left. He fits BBs' versatility model. Even though Freeney is younger and maybe the more feared rusher, I'd take Taylor as a rotation guy. Third down with Seymour, Vrabel, Colvin, Thomas and Taylor, it would be impossible to block. Now throw in Warren and Green.

I think that the Colts are getting a media break on injuries that the Pats never got, nor asked for in 06. The Pats had a couple studs missing at the beginning of the year who are just starting to play into shape. I will give you this, that for that last three years, the Colts have some great WRs, but this year the Pats have caught up. Now when watching Manning, it's like watching Tom that last few years as he was "WR Challenged? I think Clark is a bigger loss than Marvin anyway.

Back to Freeny. He is a big loss for you......By the way, the Wayne PI was the biggest travesty call we have had this year(maybe worse than those three "corkers" in last years play-offs) and now you see how that feels. Rich Eisen was almost laughing when Peireria tried to spin that one and made himself loose credibility. He should not have touched it. BAN ME, I think that's why Pats fans are upset even though we won, because it's hard to play the Colts at home with Pollian watching the the Refs and undoubtedly every break goes the Colts way. The score was not indicative of what it could have been with on-the-level Refs. I don't even want to get back into last years' sham.

I think the Pats would rather play and win against any team that has all hands on deck so there is no excuse. Your second string kids on the DL can be exploited. Sanders is not playing like last year for whatever reason. He got beat many times. Peyton's gonna have to put up more numbers because Freeney is down.
DW Toys

I guess we'll just disagree on the Colts at home thing. Even taking away the 6points, we still scored two TD's. 14 points. Pats 10. It's not like the PI's affected your offense. But, I quit this discussion. You guys won, you deserved it, you will be hard to beat.

According to AJ, Freeney isn't such a big loss. It's all or none with him. Either you sack a guy or you don't. So cool, I guess he won't be missed

Disagree on Sanders. He's always around the ball, and continues to make big stops. I think the improvement of the other guys has masked his production, which is a good thing.

Generally, good teams, with good coaching, get better as the season progresses. Luckily, this D has 7 additional games to get even better. PT for Sessions, Boiman, Pit****, Charleston, and others might go a long way toward solidifying things for the playoffs. Same with the O-line. Hopefully, the bug stops now, and all those NOT on IR continue to heal, and are ready to go come January. Still don't like the rumblings about Freeney.

 

[Cramden]

Back to the injury, John Clayton said on NFL Live the injury could be season ending. More tests are being run but Freeney could have a Lis Franc injury. No confirmation but the Colts are leaning this way.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Re: Is Freeney out for season?

I'm not sure how you can honestly say Freeney doesn't have elite skills (speed, quickness, moves, finishing). Certainly those skills have not translated into much production over the last couple of years.

Yeah same thing happened to Jeff George, the best quarterback in the history of the National Football League

 

[bradmahn]

Re: Is Freeney out for season?

By the way, that pressure stat is apparently made up.
The other stats on the page are made up.
It lists Freeney with 34 takcles, 29 solo, 5 assists, but NFL.com OFFICIAL STATISTICS list him with 21/18/3.
Since those are inflated by 62%, should I assume the 'pressure' whatever that means is also inflated by 62%?

If oyu are going to argue using stats, they need to be official ones, not something made up.

Andy, I agree Freeney is overrated, but...

There are no official statistics for tackles. Because they are so subjective, organizations such as STATS, Inc. don't even keep track of them. Coaches award tackles to players after reviewing the game tape, including the Patriots.

NFL.com statistics are no more official than the ones listed on the Colts homepage, which (I am assuming this because it is how the Patriots.com page works) uses the coaches numbers.

Re: "Pressures"
Pressure is important but stupid to even attempt to quantify it with a statistic. Unless, that is, it is something more tangible, such as quarterback hits. If that's the case, call it what it is.