Free agent splash? (rehashing the Julius Peppers rumor)

[PowerRunRevival]

Dallas Clark is a free agent? Could we just send trucks of money to his house until he signs? That would solve the number 3 reciever problem right there.

I would love to see Peppers but I think will probably bring in a few lower priced free agents as well as at least two new backers in the draft.

 

[Rob0729]

The Cowboys re-signed D Ware a long time ago. James Harrison of the Steelers was re-signed too.

So were Lee Evans and Dallas Clark.

 

[Patspsycho]

Sorry I took a while to get to this- two things I have learned from this: 1) Never write a long post in the reply field- best to write in a document and copy and paste so that if it gets truncated or chopped off, you can always copy and paste again. 2) Until you pulled that video and put that in your post, I never thought about googling video highlights. That is one thing I will do from now on, because I got 2 facts wrong. I will concede that to you.

1) I'm going to call BS on this post.

What exactly are you calling BS on?

1) Brees in 2x2 formation (2 TE x 2 WR): true (shockey drops to nullify Wilhite)
2) TE fake motion to short post: false (video verification)
3) Zone under: true (TBC fakes 3 point, fakes stand, then drops back as you say)
4) Wilhite in fake man press: true
5) strong side blitz: false (video verification- weakside)
6) Zone under man over fake zone with intent to go man 2 coverage: true (see argument below)

So I stand by my point, you do not know if the Pats are having communication problems because the overwhelming majority of the time you cannot see the secondary.

so when the camera pans with the throw, I am allowed to see henderson catch the ball and run in, but I am not allowed to see what has happened to the secondary and to form my own deductions?

2) So the play fails because of communication? I disagree. Merriweather simply did not carry out his deep middle assignment. He got caught peeking into the backfield, and when Bress pump faked Merriweather totally went for it and Henderson flew right by him.

Henderson does NOT fly "right by him." In fact there is nobody within 20 yards. The video you posted does show us setting up in cover 3, but it lasts only a few seconds and does NOT show what it morphs into, hence my argument that it was attempting to morph into man 2 coverage (both safeties deep in man coverage)

If it had remained a true cover 3, then my question is why does Butler completely disappear (he is covering the receiver at the bottom of the screen- not sure who)? Why is Bodden the closest person in pursuit even though he is the farthest "cover 3" away? As part of the cover 3 zone, shouldn't Butler at least be within 5 yards or even 10 yards? The only reason this is not possible is because he is in man coverage. Doesn't this therefore mean safeties are also in man coverage.

This because someone has got to pick up the X slot that Wilhite leaves unguarded. The very fact that absolutely nobody picks it up is proof. Tentative proof of man 2 coverage, yes, but absolute proof of a communication breakdown. Nobody is anywhere near Henderson.

The fact that nobody is anywhere near Henderson at all- that is a gross aberration. How else to explain this than by the logical conclusion that there has been a communication breakdown? Do you disagree?

Count the number of Saints personnel downfield, including the receiver in the left out zone, and you get 7 men. That leaves 4 upfield, and we had 4 men upfield to deal with that. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Also what makes you think BB/Pees pulls a cover 3 on Brees who is traditionally accurate, but on this night, was completely lights out. That is an utter lack of in-game adjustment, something we know BB doesn't lack at.

What do I think happened? It's actually a pretty standard zone-blitz scheme, with a pretty conservative cover-3 zone behind it; as most zone blitzes use. The Patriots use a 3/3/5 Nickel package. However, Bill disguises it by having TBC line up where you'd expect a DT. So it looks like a 4 man line consisting of Burgess, Wright, TBC, and Pryor at DE. OLB Guyton is lined up over the TE. Mayo is at MLB. The outside CBs are playing 7 yards off, Whilite (NB) appears to be playing bump-and-run. Both the safeties are in a two-deep alignment, before the snap.

The two-deep alignment, I argue, is a precursor to man 2 coverage. It led to the initial deduction of a morph into man 2 coverage.

• On a CB blitz with man coverage behind it, you can usually expect to see one of the safeties cheat over before the snap to pick up the uncovered reciever. That doesn't happen. Before the snap Merriweather actually moves a step backwards (I'm, assuming to sell it being a Cover-2). So up top we have the two CBs and Merriweather each playing 1/3 of the field.
• The alignment of the two CBs in coverage: They are both playing off their man, with an inside leverage with their hips opened up towards the QB and they are reading the QBs and are pattern reading. This isn't a man coverage technique. This is pretty standard for a cover-3 though. They want to force the WRs to go outside - and hopefully give the QB a narrow lane between the defender and the sideline - because they know there are holes in the underneath zone in the middle of the field because of the blitz.
• James Sanders immediatley covers the flat on the side where Guyton blitzed from. Why? Because most QBs are taught - when seeing a blitz - try to hit a receiver from the spot where the defense just left. Zone blitzes counter this strategy; they often send safeties (who are good in coverage) in that vacated zone. So Guyton leaves, and Sanders enters. Mayo cheats to his left to cover the hook zone. TBC takes one step in like he's rushing the passer, and bails out to cover the adjacent hook zone.
  
  TBC in right hook zone, Mayo left hook zone = zone underneath.
  

All of the above is SOP for cover 3 leading up to and immediately after the snap. I do not disagree with this. What I am disagreeing with is what it morphed into. It did not stay a cover 3

 

[Patspsycho]

Are you also disagreeing with second example? I did not see a refutation of it anywhere.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Dallas Clark is a free agent? Could we just send trucks of money to his house until he signs? That would solve the number 3 reciever problem right there.

I would love to see Peppers but I think will probably bring in a few lower priced free agents as well as at least two new backers in the draft.

Dallas Clark is a freeagent?!?!? That could be the punch in the mouth to the Colts like they did with Vinatieri.

 

[pherein]

[*]The alignment of the two CBs in coverage: They are both playing off their man, with an inside leverage with their hips opened up towards the QB and they are reading the QBs and are pattern reading. This isn't a man coverage technique.

So they're going to betray man coverage by playing with closed hips? They can easily disguise with their hips and change at the snap.

3) Oh, I almost forgot. Do you know why Merriweather bit on the pump fake? Do you know why he wasn't expecting Bress to go deep? Do you know why he was willing to gamble? IT WAS BECAUSE HE EXPECTED THE BLITZ TO PRESSURE THE QB AND FORCE A QUICK THROW.

My argument against that is- I will ask you that in the form of a question is, that if that was his mindset, then he must be oblivious to the big fact that his team can't rush or blitz worth ****? Is BB so dense that it doesn't matter if you have non-existent pass-rushing, if you tried it often enough, something must happen?

That's why he jumped early. Sure he messed up, but it was a calculated gamble. If the QB has enough time to pump fake and hit another man, then a zone blitz is going to fail even if everyone carries out their assignment. Zone blitzes are not meant to hold for more than a few seconds.


Even then, those few seconds are still an infinity in an NFL game, and someone should have picked up the free man. You know that BB doesn't gamble so recklessly.. there's always a safety valve- there's always a pickup should the first line break down. Also Wilhite doesn't do a good job firing off the snap. Shockey picks him up easily. Shouldn't someone have diagnosed that?


The whole concept is built on the the QB being forced to get rid of the ball ASAP. Yet this didn't happen BECAUSE THERE WAS NO PRESSURE. Why was there no pressure? Because THERE ARE NO LEGIT PASS RUSHERS ON THIS TEAM. None. Zero. Zip. Zlich. Nada. This is why it is absolutley ridiculous to say that pass rushers are over rated and scheme is more important.

I never said pass-rushers are overrated, I said 3-4 OLB as pass-rushers are overrated, and then I said see Cowboys vs. Saints. The Cowboys beat the Saints because they turned the Saints D philosophy on its head and put it right back onto the Saints by rushing their front 4 every time. I do agree we are sorely in need of pass-rushing, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a 3-4 OLB that's going to be our savior

Actually we lost to the Cowboys because

On offense: Goodwin C, Stinchcomb RT, Bush RB, Thomas RB, Moore WRL, Bell RB (was limited) , Eckel FB, Leckey LG, Dinkins TE, Shockey TE

On Defense : McCray LDE, Ellis DT, Fujita SLB, Vilma MLB ( left 3Q), Greer LCB, Porter RCB, Sharper FS ( was in and out with ankle sprain ), young FS

All these guys were out 3 left the game. The Saints were really beaten up by this point. M . Jenkins is a rookie and this was his 2-3 game, he covered Austin, and he was beaten bad.

So our secondary was a train wreak, and we could not pass rush or stop the run to save our lives. We couldn't rotate the front line, so rookies and 2nd string had to hold of Ware and the Dallas front 4 D. They knew that and could easily cover Colston and Meachum.

Still the boys came back from 24-3 and almost won in the last minutes.

Dallas is using the Saints win as a signature win, but they will have to fight us fully healthy in the post season, not with 1/2 of our starter out. I personal don't think they are better than the Vikings, but I hope they do win because we want a rematch.

Oh by the way love coming on here sometimes. you guys really know football and your post are excellent

 

[Prufrock]

I hope the Steven Jackson rumors had some credibility. I would kill to see him in this offense, even if it meant the Raiders 1st and maybe a few other picks.

 

[Patspsycho]

Actually we lost to the Cowboys because

On offense: Goodwin C, Stinchcomb RT, Bush RB, Thomas RB, Moore WRL, Bell RB (was limited) , Eckel FB, Leckey LG, Dinkins TE, Shockey TE

On Defense : McCray LDE, Ellis DT, Fujita SLB, Vilma MLB ( left 3Q), Greer LCB, Porter RCB, Sharper FS ( was in and out with ankle sprain ), young FS

All these guys were out 3 left the game. The Saints were really beaten up by this point. M . Jenkins is a rookie and this was his 2-3 game, he covered Austin, and he was beaten bad.

So our secondary was a train wreak, and we could not pass rush or stop the run to save our lives. We couldn't rotate the front line, so rookies and 2nd string had to hold of Ware and the Dallas front 4 D. They knew that and could easily cover Colston and Meachum.

Still the boys came back from 24-3 and almost won in the last minutes.

Dallas is using the Saints win as a signature win, but they will have to fight us fully healthy in the post season, not with 1/2 of our starter out. I personal don't think they are better than the Vikings, but I hope they do win because we want a rematch.

Oh by the way love coming on here sometimes. you guys really know football and your post are excellent

No argument with the missing personnel. However you have to agree that the Dallas DL was ferocious and pressured Brees quite often, to the point that it became a game-changer.

 

[slash83]

Dallas Clark is a freeagent?!?!? That could be the punch in the mouth to the Colts like they did with Vinatieri.

If he is, the Colts will no way in hell let him play for another team other then you guessed it, the Colts.

 

[skspikex2]

I hope the Steven Jackson rumors had some credibility. I would kill to see him in this offense, even if it meant the Raiders 1st and maybe a few other picks.

I'm not sure. They overuse him alot in St Louis, he basically the only offense.

 

[pherein]

No argument with the missing personnel. However you have to agree that the Dallas DL was ferocious and pressured Brees quite often, to the point that it became a game-changer.

completely true, our 3 2nd stringers on the OL just could not stop them they are way better than the guys we had in, and Payton admitted that he did not post a RB on Wares side to help are 4 OL rookie Hardgrove in place of JB, they creamed our our OL.

 

[Patspsycho]

Payton admitted that he did not post a RB on Wares side to help are 4 OL rookie Hardgrove in place of JB, they creamed our our OL.

I was wondering about that. Ware was beating him up bad.

 

[pherein]

I was wondering about that. Ware was beating him up bad.

sorry I mis-spoke its 74 Bushrod, Ware just destroyed him, he replaced JBrown a pro bowler, he was no match for Ware. Thats why Ware ended the game.

 

[Patspsycho]

sorry I mis-spoke its 74 Bushrod, Ware just destroyed him, he replaced JBrown a pro bowler, he was no match for Ware. Thats why Ware ended the game.

I seem to remember Hardgrove being bashed.

 

[pherein]

I seem to remember Hardgrove being bashed.

ya he replaced, Sedrick Ellis at DT so your correct. If you look up Ellis on youtube you see its like us losing Ware. They ran on us like a hot knife on butter, Hargrove was run against all day

 

[Patspsycho]

ya he replaced, Sedrick Ellis at DT so your correct. If you look up Ellis on youtube you see its like us losing Ware. They ran on us like a hot knife on butter, Hargrove was run against all day

Ok I didn't realize he was moved inside. My mistake. I thought he was being bashed because he couldn't handle Ware on the outside, but looks like I got him mixed up with Bushrod.

 

[pherein]

Ok I didn't realize he was moved inside. My mistake. I thought he was being bashed because he couldn't handle Ware on the outside, but looks like I got him mixed up with Bushrod.

Hell I do that all the time

 

[SeymourTrophies]

I'm not sure. They overuse him alot in St Louis, he basically the only offense.

and the man still gets 1,500 rushing yards per season

He's also good receiving out of the backfield. It would make no sense for them to get rid of him though. If the rams get good in the next few years, 50% of their success will be named Steven Jackson, and if the Rams don't see themselves getting good in the next few years, they need to quit and get someone who does have a winning mentality.

 

[Disco Volante]

I'm thinking of a guy...

ADAM. SEWARD.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

and the man still gets 1,500 rushing yards per season

He's also good receiving out of the backfield. It would make no sense for them to get rid of him though. If the rams get good in the next few years, 50% of their success will be named Steven Jackson, and if the Rams don't see themselves getting good in the next few years, they need to quit and get someone who does have a winning mentality.

We had our shot at drafting Jackson and BB and Pioli team chose to pass on him for Wilfork. NT was a big need back then, though we did add Mt. Washington via trade later I think

Now, Jackson will be 27 at start of 2010 season, though in RB years he is closer to 29 given the usage and pounding he's taken the last few years. RB decline happens fast.