Fred Taylor in Jeopardy?

[patriotscpfc]

Running Backs are a dime a dozen now outside of the true elite guys.

Give me 4 of our guys ahead of Shonn Greene (lets face it LdT isn't going to do jack in NY)

 

[RussFrancis]

1.) Brady had Dillon

2.) Brady went 18-1 with Maroney and Morris, even without Taylor and BJGE.

3.) If you think RB has been the problem with this team over the past 2 seasons, you haven't been paying attention.

Did I say something about RB being the problem the past 2 years? I dont look back like that needlessly. RB is a problem now. When 3 of your guys are deep into their 30s, 2 are highly injury prone, and your best guy is Maroney, its a problem.

But arent you tired of settling? Wouldnt you like to find a Ray Rice, a Frank Gore, or a Marion Barber in a draft for once? Youve got no shot at finding a player like unless you actually draft a player at the position.

Its not about what this team needs just to get by. Its about what a top-notch young RB could actually do for this team. Its as if we drafted Maroney 4 years ago, and just concluded that he'd be good enough to get by with for 5 years.

I like Morris. I like Taylor. I love Faulk. But talk about last legs. I want for once to see RB as an actual strength on this team. Is that too much to ask?

We're defying football logic by trying to just get by with what we have at the position.

 

[PlainOldEd]

I didn't think he looked bad either but generally I find RB one of the hardest positions to judge in camp because other position offer more of a one on one matchup but without tackling the RB is tough to tell.

Agreed. I remember one TC where Dino Philyaw looked like a world beater and Curtis Martin looked 'OK'.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Yeah, we'd probably be pretty much the first and only 'great' team in NFL history that actually devalues RBs. Equally mind boggling.

Are you for real...... You are familiar with BB's style, right?

Per Capita, we pay doink for the RB position and always seem to be respectable in the run game. Never at the top, never to far back in the pack. We have Tom "Effing" Brady and for the time being we are a PASSING OFFENSE. It's pretty simple.

We are fine with a platoon of serviceable backs. It's not pretty all the time, but it generally does work. It will again this year.

You also realize that our OLine is a passing oriented line and we don't have anyone that's going to road grade gaping holes to run through. It's one of the reasons Mankins won't EVER get 8M here. Look at the Gaurds in the league that get that kind of Jack. They are run game road graders...... Mankins ain't one of them (I digress though ).

Bottom line, this is a pass first offense and we're not gonna waste a high round pick (and the $$ that goes with it) on a "hit or miss" position like RB when we can get by with the cheaper (albeit less showy) guys that are inevitably available every year.

 

[RussFrancis]

Are you for real...... You are familiar with BB's style, right?

Per Capita, we pay doink for the RB position and always seem to be respectable in the run game. Never at the top, never to far back in the pack. We have Tom "Effing" Brady and for the time being we are a PASSING OFFENSE. It's pretty simple.

We are fine with a platoon of serviceable backs. It's not pretty all the time, but it generally does work. It will again this year.

You also realize that our OLine is a passing oriented line and we don't have anyone that's going to road grade gaping holes to run through. It's one of the reasons Mankins won't EVER get 8M here. Look at the Gaurds in the league that get that kind of Jack. They are run game road graders...... Mankins ain't one of them (I digress though ).

Bottom line, this is a pass first offense and we're not gonna waste a high round pick (and the $$ that goes with it) on a "hit or miss" position like RB when we can get by with the cheaper (albeit less showy) guys that are inevitably available every year.

Am I for real? What, to want a younger, more dynamic RB? Someone better than Maroney? Yeah, I guess Im nuts.

And Im not even necessarily talking about drafting a RB in the 1st or 2nd round. Im talking about drafting any RB in any round.

 

[Patspsycho]

Bottom line, this is a pass first offense and we're not gonna waste a high round pick (and the $$ that goes with it) on a "hit or miss" position like RB when we can get by with the cheaper (albeit less showy) guys that are inevitably available every year.

It goes without saying that we have to have a top quality RB or a better selection of RB's to take the heat off Brady and to protect him.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Yeah, we'd probably be pretty much the first and only 'great' team in NFL history that actually devalues RBs. Equally mind boggling.

We don't devalue running backs. We devalue the concept of the workhorse running back. Go back and look at all of the teams that have won (or even played in) SBs recently: what was the last one to have a stud RB? The Seahawks in 2005. Every team to make the SB since then has had, at best, one very good RB. Many didn't even have that, but pretty much all of them had a couple of RBs who could get the job done. Having an elite RB just isn't that important; they're too injury-prone to be reliable. Teams that rely on one RB tend to sputter and die when he gets banged up and slows down (which invariably happens by the end of the season, when the playoffs roll around).

 

[Calciumee]

Taylor isn't exactly young, and I can see him getting cut in the final cut downs.

I suppose we shall wait and see

 

[RussFrancis]

We don't devalue running backs. We devalue the concept of the workhorse running back. Go back and look at all of the teams that have won (or even played in) SBs recently: what was the last one to have a stud RB? The Seahawks in 2005. Every team to make the SB since then has had, at best, one very good RB. Many didn't even have that, but pretty much all of them had a couple of RBs who could get the job done. Having an elite RB just isn't that important; they're too injury-prone to be reliable. Teams that rely on one RB tend to sputter and die when he gets banged up and slows down (which invariably happens by the end of the season, when the playoffs roll around).

Im as much a football historian as the next guy. I understand personnel and how great teams are assembled. Ive made a very simple point. We have not drafted a single RB in the past 3 years. Not one.

And Ive heard a case made that we dont pay RBs. Well, our corps of RBs account for roughly $10mil of our cap. A 2nd round RB would make around a mil a year. Our old, veteran, injury prone RBs all make far more than that.

Im over this team just trying to get by at RB. Draft a RB already. I have little doubt we'll be doing so next year, as we're likely to losing our entire corps of RBs next offseason. Think about how much fun that's gonna be. Maybe Faulk gives us one more season, but I wont be holding my breath.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Im as much a football historian as the next guy. I understand personnel and how great teams are assembled. Ive made a very simple point. We have not drafted a single RB in the past 3 years. Not one.

And Ive heard a case made that we dont pay RBs. Well, our corps of RBs account for roughly $10mil of our cap. A 2nd round RB would make around a mil a year. Our old, veteran, injury prone RBs all make far more than that.

Im over this team just trying to get by at RB. Draft a RB already. I have little doubt we'll be doing so next year, as we're likely to losing our entire corps of RBs next offseason. Think about how much fun that's gonna be. Maybe Faulk gives us one more season, but I wont be holding my breath.

First off, I was on the record as saying that I wanted a RB with one of our mid-round picks this year, so I can definitely see where you're coming from. That said, we've had a lot of other pressing needs the last few years, too. Some positions were bound to get neglected, and the way that it's worked out is that RB has been that position. Ideally, I too would love to have another young RB, but instead we got other players that we needed. And since our running game is still pretty effective by most measures, I don't think that's the worst thing in the world.

There were a lot of reasons why the Pats fell short last year: lack of a young running back was low on that list, if it was on there at all. Ultimately, my guess is that it comes down to RB being the ultimate plug-and-play position. When we know we're going to need an OLB, S, CB or S two years out, we have to grab him now and use the intervening time to coach him up. When RB becomes a pressing need, we can pretty much just draft one and/or grab one in free agency. Most of what they need to do, he'll be able to do right away, with blitz pickup being the major exception of course.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Agreed. I remember one TC where Dino Philyaw looked like a world beater and Curtis Martin looked 'OK'.

Heh. I was there in Smithfield. You're right, Ol' Dino did look decent but I really disagree about CM. He was the superstar of that camp. Out-friggin-standing.

Gotta say I really miss Smithfield. You could stand RIGHT next to the field lines and hear every abrasive word that Parcells, Weis, et. al. shouted at the players. Gems.

Then afterwards off to relax at the nearby restaurant jammed in with Pats players.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I'd be surprised if we run over 20 times a game this season.

The draft tells me we are going to be passing as much or more than ever.

 

[Deus Irae]

Did I say something about RB being the problem the past 2 years? I dont look back like that needlessly. RB is a problem now. When 3 of your guys are deep into their 30s, 2 are highly injury prone, and your best guy is Maroney, its a problem.

But arent you tired of settling? Wouldnt you like to find a Ray Rice, a Frank Gore, or a Marion Barber in a draft for once?...

While I'd have no complaints about the team drafting Adrian Peterson, I find the constant complaining about the running game, and the constant ripping of Maroney, to be more than just a bit silly.

Saints
Colts
Steelers
Cardinals
Giants
Patriots

The last 6 teams to get to the Super Bowl. Only 1 was a running team. New England's running game is better than what the Cardinals, Steelers and Colts were putting on the field during those Super Bowls.

It's a non-issue, and it's been a non-issue since 2007.

 

[patfanken]

While I'd have no complaints about the team drafting Adrian Peterson, I find the constant complaining about the running game, and the constant ripping of Maroney, to be more than just a bit silly.

Saints
Colts
Steelers
Cardinals
Giants
Patriots

The last 6 teams to get to the Super Bowl. Only 1 was a running team. New England's running game is better than what the Cardinals, Steelers and Colts were putting on the field during those Super Bowls.

It's a non-issue, and it's been a non-issue since 2007.

3 points to make

1. In fact the Colts owned the worst running game in the league, despite spending 2 relatively high picks on RBs recently.....and they were still playing in February.

2. RB is one of the easiest positions to fill if all you need is a decent reliable player. There are just that many more guys who fit the physical requirement. Atwain Smith NEVER averaged 4ypc in the 3 years he was here. Yet he did JUST enough to help us win 2 superbowls. And those weren't pass first offenses by any means.

BB believes in the run. But he also knows that you don't spend big bucks on the position. There are just too many examples of RBs who are picked too high and don't make the contributions expected of them, and I don't mean guys picked in the 20's.

3. The thing that might hurt Taylor in the final roster cuts is the fact he doesn't contribute to special teams. But there is not need for a guy like Taylor to extend himself in camp. If I see a diminished quickness in the preseason games, then I reserve the right to change my mind.

 

[RussFrancis]

While I'd have no complaints about the team drafting Adrian Peterson, I find the constant complaining about the running game, and the constant ripping of Maroney, to be more than just a bit silly.

Saints
Colts
Steelers
Cardinals
Giants
Patriots

The last 6 teams to get to the Super Bowl. Only 1 was a running team. New England's running game is better than what the Cardinals, Steelers and Colts were putting on the field during those Super Bowls.

It's a non-issue, and it's been a non-issue since 2007.

I dont really overly concern myself with what other teams are doing. Im aware, but Im talking about THIS team, and the simple point I made was draft a RB, please. That's it. Im not hating on our backs. They'll be the best we've got this season, and once the games begin, I'll be rooting like hell for each of them. You dont need to be "silly" to point out the obvious. Football is a young man's game, and we've got three 30 year old RBs. It isnt complicated.

 

[signbabybrady]

I dont really overly concern myself with what other teams are doing. Im aware, but Im talking about THIS team, and the simple point I made was draft a RB, please. That's it. Im not hating on our backs. They'll be the best we've got this season, and once the games begin, I'll be rooting like hell for each of them. You dont need to be "silly" to point out the obvious. Football is a young man's game, and we've got three 30 year old RBs. It isnt complicated.

I just want to point one thing out regardless of what your opinion of the guys ability is our lead running back is 25 or so. Then the next best back is Faulk and u just dont get rooks who can do what he does. After that does age really matter both Morris and Taylor bring skills to the backfield and BJGE is young.

Next year if Maroney is gone then you likely will need to think young thru the the draft or FA and hopefully we hit gold again like CD(not that he was young at the time but because thats what RB should be) or something but the last two drafts look good so far so why complain about no back.

 

[patsfan-1982]

I'd be surprised if we run over 20 times a game this season.

The draft tells me we are going to be passing as much or more than ever.

if that is true then they need to sign mankins, cause they will get brady killed with there 80% shotgun offense

 

[BradyFTW!]

3 points to make

1. In fact the Colts owned the worst running game in the league, despite spending 2 relatively high picks on RBs recently.....and they were still playing in February.

2. RB is one of the easiest positions to fill if all you need is a decent reliable player. There are just that many more guys who fit the physical requirement. Atwain Smith NEVER averaged 4ypc in the 3 years he was here. Yet he did JUST enough to help us win 2 superbowls. And those weren't pass first offenses by any means.

BB believes in the run. But he also knows that you don't spend big bucks on the position. There are just too many examples of RBs who are picked too high and don't make the contributions expected of them, and I don't mean guys picked in the 20's.

3. The thing that might hurt Taylor in the final roster cuts is the fact he doesn't contribute to special teams. But there is not need for a guy like Taylor to extend himself in camp. If I see a diminished quickness in the preseason games, then I reserve the right to change my mind.

Interesting point: in this past Super Bowl, there were 3 running backs drafted in the first round: Joseph Addai, Donald Brown, and Reggie Bush. If the Pats had picked any of those guys, the fans that rag on our running game now would still be ragging on it, for all the same reasons. First round RBs are rarely worth the pick that you spend on them. 2nd-4th round seems to be the sweet spot where you can get great talent, but at the same time the investment isn't too high for the crapshoot nature of it all.

 

[Joker]

Heh. I was there in Smithfield. You're right, Ol' Dino did look decent but I really disagree about CM. He was the superstar of that camp. Out-friggin-standing.

Gotta say I really miss Smithfield. You could stand RIGHT next to the field lines and hear every abrasive word that Parcells, Weis, et. al. shouted at the players. Gems.

Then afterwards off to relax at the nearby restaurant jammed in with Pats players.

heh...don't laugh too hard but back in the 90's I had a press pass to camp in Smithfield...I had a site called Joker's War Zone and a friend at NEPats vouched for me to the Pats...good times

 

[patsinthesnow]

BB values the RB position, he drafted maroney in the 1st round.

A RB will be drafted next year.